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Old 03-25-2014, 01:55 PM   #76
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

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I have to give props to the current FF franchise for attempting fun - as much as they flopped, I really hope this new movie embraces the fun element of superheroes. Not everything has to be dark and gritty ala Nolan's Batman, or Snyder's Supe.
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Some franchises should specifically NOT be. FF is one of them.
I agree. I think the key is to make the threats feel very real and when the characters are engaged in a battle, it should feel intense. But during their down time, they should feel like real, regular people - not the moping, morose superheroes always questioning their place in the world that has become such a cliche'. Even Ben who, unlike Batman or Spider-man or Wolverine, has a real reason to be depressed should mask it with humor and not play 'woe is me'.

I think Jaws is a good example of a film in which there's a real threat and real intensity at the appropriate points, but at other points the interaction between the characters is fun and funny and feels real.

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Old 03-25-2014, 02:10 PM   #77
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

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I agree. I think the key is to make the threats feel very real and when the characters are engaged in a battle, it should feel intense. But during their down time, they should feel like real, regular people - not the moping, morose superheroes always questioning their place in the world that has become such a cliche'. Even Ben who, unlike Batman or Spider-man or Wolverine, has a real reason to be depressed should mask it with humor and not play 'woe is me'.

I think Jaws is a good example of a film in which there's a real threat and real intensity at the appropriate points, but at other points the interaction between the characters is fun and funny and feels real.
Couldn't agree more! Jurassic Park is another perfect example - it can be terrifying at times (when the T-Rex first breaks out of the Paddock enclosure...) but embraces our need to laugh as an audience, without going too overboard (Ian Malcom's many quips, etc)

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Old 03-25-2014, 02:41 PM   #78
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

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Originally Posted by Willie Lumpkin View Post
I agree. I think the key is to make the threats feel very real and when the characters are engaged in a battle, it should feel intense. But during their down time, they should feel like real, regular people - not the moping, morose superheroes always questioning their place in the world that has become such a cliche'. Even Ben who, unlike Batman or Spider-man or Wolverine, has a real reason to be depressed should mask it with humor and not play 'woe is me'.

I think Jaws is a good example of a film in which there's a real threat and real intensity at the appropriate points, but at other points the interaction between the characters is fun and funny and feels real.
Also agree, and I hope they can pull off that kind of tone with this movie (which is to say I hope this Jeremy Slater guy turns out to be a way better writer than Simon Kinberg has been in the past).

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Old 03-25-2014, 03:04 PM   #79
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

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A whole lot of good points in here, and I think the idea that there's us and then everybody else who has no idea who the FF are is a highly flawed concept.

There are a lot of people out there who probably couldn't name all the characters or tell you much about their origin, but they'll say something like: "Yeah, weren't they the ones with that orange-rock guy and the flame guy and the guy that stretches . . . "

There's a lot of general familiarity for these characters and the farther the film strays from those elements people recognize, the less interested people will be.

I'm not a big Iron Man fan, but I have a general idea of who he is. If Marvel had cast a 22 year old blonde kid to play Tony Stark and gave him blue and purple armor, I probably would have said: "That doesn't look like Iron Man to me." And I may have never gone to the first movie.

I hadn't had the balls to say that but I completely agree. In my country, which wasn't that familiar with comics, I discovered the Fantastic Four during my youth in the 80ies.

At this time, the TV channels bought the old Marvel animated series from the 60ies. The first was, of course, the good old Spidey series, and the second was... Fantastic Four.

If anyone has a doubt, look at this (sorry for that terrible disco cheesy theme song) :

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


month later, my parents bought me that game that I still have :

http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=h...ed=0CGQQrQMwBA

I had never had a comic book in the hands, but I allready knew who Spiderman and the Fantastic Four were.

And, since then, 2 or 3 other animated series were aired. So, yes, people like me or younger pretty much know who the Fantastic Four are... Or, at least, the 616 version. Because, and that's funny (not for Fox), very few know what the Ultimate Fantastic Four are or look like, because that version never appear outside the comic book...


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Old 03-25-2014, 03:26 PM   #80
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

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I hadn't had the balls to say that but I completely agree. In my country, which wasn't that familiar with comics, I discovered the Fantastic Four during my youth in the 80ies.

At this time, the TV channels bought the old Marvel animated series from the 60ies. The first was, of course, the good old Spidey series, and the second was... Fantastic Four.

If anyone has a doubt, look at this (sorry for that terrible disco cheesy theme song) :

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


month later, my parents bought me that game that I still have :

http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=h...ed=0CGQQrQMwBA

I had never had a comic book in the hands, but I allready knew who Spiderman and the Fantastic Four were.

And, since then, 2 or 3 other animated series were aired. So, yes, people like me or younger pretty much know who the Fantastic Four are... Or, at least, the 616 version. Because, and that's funny (not for Fox), very few know what the Ultimate Fantastic Four are or look like, because that version never appear outside the comic book...


That intro brings back memories, doesn't it?

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Old 03-25-2014, 05:15 PM   #81
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And, since then, 2 or 3 other animated series were aired. So, yes, people like me or younger pretty much know who the Fantastic Four are... Or, at least, the 616 version. Because, and that's funny (not for Fox), very few know what the Ultimate Fantastic Four are or look like, because that version never appear outside the comic book...
Umm...they look pretty much like 616 FF, design-wise, IIRC. I think the only real change was that UFF Reed wore glasses (and Doom had goat legs, but that's a whole other rant).

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Old 03-25-2014, 06:11 PM   #82
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There are certainly films that are big-budget flops and there are films that are low-budget stand-outs.

. . . but if somebody wants to make a great superhero film - particularly with a property like Fantastic four that has 4 superpowered characters and exotic sets, costumes etc. - I don't think the way to do it is to go cheap.

I don't think the first two FF films would have been any better with big-name stars, but big-name stars illustrate a faith and commitment that other, succesful, superhero films have. I've watched how Fox treats FF and I'm convinced they won't give us a big-name for the simple fact that they don't value the FF (if I'm wrong, we should hear soon since filming is scheduled to start in less than a month. I hope I'm wrong and please feel free to rub it in my face if they do bring in a Tommy Lee Jones type name).

If filming starts in April, I'll have no choice but to hope we'll get a better film than I expect, but I'll never say: "Thank you Fox for giving this film a lower budget, a less experienced director and writer and a weaker cast than every other successful superhero film of the last 20 years."

I'm an FF fan and I want Fox to do it right, so I won't make excuses for them when they show a lack of commitment. Sure they could surprise everybody and produce a great film without putting much effort in, but I'm an FF fan and I refuse to quietly accept (or worse yet make excuses for) them treating this property with less respect than every other successful superhero film.
Well I have seen so many bloated and overproduced Hollywood movies, that for me a huge budget and some famous faces is not enough for me excited for this movie.

Also I am just wondering, where does everyone get this idea that the film has a 100 million dollar budget? Has that been confirmed somewhere?

Don't get me, I'm not even excited for this film, I'm just neutral at the moment, I'm just not willing to be a Doomsayer at this point. At this I think there is a 50/50 chance of the film being good or just okay or being terrible. But this cast is not a deal breaker for me and neither is the director. Really Marc Webb and Jon Favreau were not big name directors before they directed Spider-Man and Iron Man. Really if an FF movie had famous faces and a big budget, but became a overproduced bloated mess, I don't think anyone would be happy.


The deal breaker for the first FF movie in 2005 was Dr. Doom being some tycoon, after that I knew the movie would suck, if I hear about a similar misstep with this film, then I will go from neutral to negative.

I do wonder if Fox just doesn't have a handle on the FF, they seem to handle X-Men well, X-Men is a darker and more grounded property, while the FF are lighthearted and adventurous. Maybe Fox can handle the X-Men, but not the FF, because the FF movies they made seemed too light weight and silly. This does seem like something Marvel could handle better, the balance between the serious and the silly that is needed for the FF.

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Also all this talk about the script. How many rewrites has this thing gone through? And now Simon Kinberg? What has he done? X-Men: The Last Stand and XXX: State of the Union? I'm supposed to be excited about this guy?

And then there's Vaughn "It's not a comedy" and Teller "I didn't feel like I was reading this larger-than-life, incredible superhero tale". Comments like these tell me the script is absolutely nothing like what an FF film should be. Then you look at the cast and you say why call this the Fantastic Four at all (other than the obvious rights grab)? Why not just make a cool movie and call it whatever you want?

If Fox really goes through with this and does this thing, believe me I want to be blown away by it. I want it to be the most incredible comic book movie ever. But nothing I've heard leads me to believe that is even a remote possibility and you can't blame many of us for having nothing but dread for this film being put into production which, in the likelihood that it either fails utterly or is merely yet another mediocre outing, will keep our favorite comic characters condemned to the equivalent of cinematic purgatory.
Too be fair a lot films go through rewrites and become good films in the end, First Contact was originally going have the Enterprise go to Medieval Italy and and Ghostbusters was going to be set the future, however if they are doing massive rewrites while shooting, that would be problematic, that was a problem with the first FF movie.


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Old 03-25-2014, 06:25 PM   #83
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

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Well I have seen so many bloated and overproduced Hollywood movies, that for me a huge budget and some famous faces is not enough for me excited for this movie.

Also I am just wondering, where does everyone get this idea that the film has a 100 million dollar budget? Has that been confirmed somewhere?

Don't get me, I'm not even excited for this film, I'm just neutral at the moment, I'm just not willing to be a Doomsayer at this point. At this I think there is a 50/50 chance of the film being good or just okay or being terrible. But this cast is not a deal breaker for me and neither is the director. Really Marc Webb and Jon Favreau were not big name directors before they directed Spider-Man and Iron Man. Really if an FF movie had famous faces and a big budget, but became a overproduced bloated mess, I don't think anyone would be happy.


The deal breaker for the first FF movie in 2005 was Dr. Doom being some tycoon, after that I knew the movie would suck, if I hear about a similar misstep with this film, then I will go from neutral to negative.

I do wonder if Fox just doesn't have a handle on the FF, they seem to handle X-Men well, X-Men is a darker and more grounded property, while the FF are lighthearted and adventurous. Maybe Fox can handle the X-Men, but not the FF, because the FF movies they made seemed too light weight and silly. This does seem like something Marvel could handle better, the balance between the serious and the silly that is needed for the FF.
Which is exactly why FF should go back to Marvel. FF are a perfect fit for both Marvel and Disney. Both have proved (either with Avengers or The Incredibles or many other movies) that they can balance these two aspects.

Fantastic Four really has to seem fantastic, almost whimsical and a real thrill ride. It's not supposed to be so grounded as Miles Teller seems to understand it. It just doesn't even gel with the tone of the X-Men films.

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Old 03-25-2014, 06:51 PM   #84
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Which is exactly why FF should go back to Marvel. FF are a perfect fit for both Marvel and Disney. Both have proved (either with Avengers or The Incredibles or many other movies) that they can balance these two aspects.

Fantastic Four really has to seem fantastic, almost whimsical and a real thrill ride. It's not supposed to be so grounded as Miles Teller seems to understand it. It just doesn't even gel with the tone of the X-Men films.
I would agree with this, but I'm also being realistic, unless this movie ends up in production Hell, Fox will keep the rights, so all you can do is hope they make a good movie, all the complaining in the world will not change the reality of the situation.

Even the UFF title had some over the top moments, the FF is not realistic and grounded property. The problem is the first film treated the material as a straight farce, that was the mistake made there. The FF needs both funny and serious moments, otherwise its either too dark or a total farce. If Fox tries to turn the FF into the X-Men, then we will get a bad film.

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Old 03-25-2014, 07:01 PM   #85
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i dunno, not liking this movie, but hopes it does well so it's not stuck in a pit.. is sorta like eating meatloaf when you really wanted prime rib

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Old 03-25-2014, 07:38 PM   #86
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i dunno, not liking this movie, but hopes it does well so it's not stuck in a pit.. is sorta like eating meatloaf when you really wanted prime rib
Its a catch 22 situation if the movie is bad and does well, it encourages Fox to do more of the same and we get something like the Transformer franchise, mindless junk that masses love that is not very good. If it is bad and does poorly, it could send the FF franchise into limbo for a long while, ditto is the film is good and does poorly, that would be a shame. If the movie is good and does well, maybe we finally get something good related to the FF.

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Old 03-25-2014, 07:47 PM   #87
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Also I am just wondering, where does everyone get this idea that the film has a 100 million dollar budget? Has that been confirmed somewhere?
http://www.nola.com/entertainment/ba...rouge_may.html

And as for your comments about big stars, yeah, I actually prefer talented, lesser known actors (not Miles Teller, but I'd be happy with an unknown who was closer to Reed).

The one and only reason I want big stars is that big stars = investment by the studio = faith in the project = support with marketing etc. = successful film.

It may seem 'formula', but it's a formula that works. Look at the top 100 grossing films of all time and you'll see a LOT of comic book films that had support from the studio and featured stars as well as top production quality.

I'm just afraid this will be a forgettable effort that does poorly at the box office. We won't get a sequel but Fox will hold onto the rights until 2023. Then when Marvel gets the rights, they won't be anxious to make a film based on characters that have failed three times already and I may never get a serious, top-notch FF film before I die.

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Old 03-25-2014, 08:06 PM   #88
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http://www.nola.com/entertainment/ba...rouge_may.html

And as for your comments about big stars, yeah, I actually prefer talented, lesser known actors (not Miles Teller, but I'd be happy with an unknown who was closer to Reed).

The one and only reason I want big stars is that big stars = investment by the studio = faith in the project = support with marketing etc. = successful film.

It may seem 'formula', but it's a formula that works. Look at the top 100 grossing films of all time and you'll see a LOT of comic book films that had support from the studio and featured stars as well as top production quality.

I'm just afraid this will be a forgettable effort that does poorly at the box office. We won't get a sequel but Fox will hold onto the rights until 2023. Then when Marvel gets the rights, they won't be anxious to make a film based on characters that have failed three times already and I may never get a serious, top-notch FF film before I die.
Well it does say over 100 million dollars, so maybe its in the 120 to 150 million dollar range. X-Men First Class was in that range and it looked good, but perhaps that is optimistic. I think we can get better sense of the budget, once we see a trailer.

I don't think that formula always works, as noted by the big bombs from last summer. I think star power is less of a draw then it used to be and people are getting tired of overproduced, bloated films with bad scripts, except for Transformers which people eat up for some reason.

Again for me, I don't see a deal breaker yet, I like did with the 2005 FF film when they announced Doom would be some slimy corporate guy.

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Old 03-25-2014, 08:17 PM   #89
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Well it does say over 100 million dollars, so maybe its in the 120 to 150 million dollar range.
We can hope, but I highly doubt it. Keep in mind that blurb comes from a studio selling a mayor and town on a production that the studio wants to be taken seriously by the town.

If the budget was $135 million, the studio would have called it: "Nearly $150 million." If it was $121 Million, it would be: "Over $120 million."

I expect it to be very close to $100 Million and not much more. The Wolverine was $120 Million and looked like a cheap Kung Fu flik.

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Old 03-25-2014, 08:32 PM   #90
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We can hope, but I highly doubt it. Keep in mind that blurb comes from a studio selling a mayor and town on a production that the studio wants to be taken seriously by the town.

If the budget was $135 million, the studio would have called it: "Nearly $150 million." If it was $121 Million, it would be: "Over $120 million."

I expect it to be very close to $100 Million and not much more. The Wolverine was $120 Million and looked like a cheap Kung Fu flik.
This is still on the speculative side though, X-Men First Class didn't have a huge budget and it still looked good and I thought Wolverine looked fine for the most part, maybe the Silver Samurai armor was dodgy, but I didn't really have a problem with it. Green Lateran had a huge budget and it looked pretty bad. A huge budget doesn't always mean a great looking film and it certainly doesn't mean instant popularity either. The Transformers movies have giant budgets and they look like overproduced bloated garbage to me, I would take the Wolverine over those movies any day of the week. A huge budget doesn't mean anything if the money is used poorly and sometimes a smaller budget movie can look great in the hands of a good director who can really get a bang for their buck, I think that is something Trank might be able to do. I think we at least have a director who made an interesting sci fi movie, which you can't say about Tim Story.

I would want to see a trailer before I make judgment about the production values of this film.


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Old 03-25-2014, 08:55 PM   #91
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This is still on the speculative side though, X-Men First Class didn't have a huge budget and it still looked good and I thought Wolverine looked fine for the most part, maybe the Silver Samurai armor was dodgy, but I didn't really have a problem with it. Green Lateran had a huge budget and it looked pretty bad. A huge budget doesn't always mean a great looking film and it certainly doesn't mean instant popularity either. The Transformers movies have giant budgets and they look like overproduced bloated garbage to me, I would take the Wolverine over those movies any day of the week. A huge budget doesn't mean anything if the money is used poorly and sometimes a smaller budget movie can look great in the hands of a good director who can really get a bang for their buck, I think that is something Trank might be able to do. I think we at least have a director who made an interesting sci fi movie, which you can't say about Tim Story.

I would want to see a trailer before I make judgment about the production values of this film.
I should probably clarify that Wolverine looked 'appropriate' for the story they were trying to tell, but it certainly didn't look like a big-budget extravaganza.

I haven't seen any transformers movies and I have no interest. I hate visually 'noisy' films that have a whole lot of CGI flying all over the place. So in principle, I'm right there with you.

The problem I have is the FF are 4 super-powered characters that aren't just super-powered, but have unique and difficult to render powers. They also were unique and ground-breaking in that they featured very exotic settings.

I don't like the idea of big for big's sake (and I think the Lone Ranger is a great example of a film that could have been done better with less rather than more), but because of the nature of the FF in particular, I just can't see them being done right without a big enough budget to bring the visuals of the comics to life.

If we had Peter Jackson or Ridley Scott and they were telling the studio: "I only need $100 million to bring my vision to the screen." I think that would be great.

But my fear is the story will need a $160-$170 budget, but Trank will get $100 million and have to make do.

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Old 03-25-2014, 09:15 PM   #92
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How many people here remember "No Ordinary Family" - the Chiklis led family of super heroes for TV?

That's what I DON'T want.

The idea that Teller thinks that it's good to have a grounded story just reeks of that TV show.

I want a sense of wonder, a sense of the unknown, of something you've never seen before.

Cameron's Avatar did that... at least in the sense of creating an alien world that had never really been seen with such clarity and vision. The story was derivative, but you can't knock the atmosphere he created.

In short... I want the Fantastic.

Can Fox deliver that, or will we get another forgettable film for our favorite foursome?

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Old 03-25-2014, 09:18 PM   #93
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

In other words, if I felt Fox was behind the scenes saying: "We want to make the best darn FF film we can and we'll do anything it takes." And they had a great script and great director and decided $100 million was what they needed to do it right, I'd be fine with that.

But I don't believe that's the case for a second. I think Fox said a long time ago: "This film is not going to cost more than $100 million. Find a way to do that." And they threw away good script after good script until they had a cheap enough one to work with.

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Old 03-25-2014, 09:20 PM   #94
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

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In other words, if I felt Fox was behind the scenes saying: "We want to make the best darn FF film we can and we'll do anything it takes." And they had a great script and great director and decided $100 million was what they needed to do it right, I'd be fine with that.

But I don't believe that's the case for a second. I think Fox said a long time ago: "This film is not going to cost more than $100 million. Find a way to do that." And they threw away good script after good script until they had a cheap enough one to work with.
Which what they did with the Frank script in the first place. Change Doom back to the 616 Doom in Frank's script and it would have been a damn good Fantastic Four movie. But THERE WAS NO WAY, they could put that script on the big screen for less than $100 million. Impossible...

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Old 03-25-2014, 09:21 PM   #95
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How many people here remember "No Ordinary Family" - the Chiklis led family of super heroes for TV?

That's what I DON'T want.

The idea that Teller thinks that it's good to have a grounded story just reeks of that TV show.

I want a sense of wonder, a sense of the unknown, of something you've never seen before.

Cameron's Avatar did that... at least in the sense of creating an alien world that had never really been seen with such clarity and vision. The story was derivative, but you can't knock the atmosphere he created.

In short... I want the Fantastic.

Can Fox deliver that, or will we get another forgettable film for our favorite foursome?

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Old 03-25-2014, 09:23 PM   #96
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

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Which what they did with the Frank script in the first place. Change Doom back to the 616 Doom in Frank's script and it would have been a damn good Fantastic Four movie. But THERE WAS NO WAY, they could put that script on the big screen for less than $100 million. Impossible...
Exactly! And I see history repeating itself in so many ways it's frightening.

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Old 03-25-2014, 09:36 PM   #97
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

While everyone is so concerned with the amount of the production budget what is as, if not more important and dire for them is what is their ADVERTISING/PROMOTION BUDGET? Remember its 1 month from the biggest Marvel Movie A-AOU, One week before "The Dinosaurs", The same week as a Pixar Film and a month preceding Ant-Man. Disney/Marvel Will Own The media with their TV shows (on ABC and Netflix) and have trailers, media coverage and a marketing blitz like no other.. Fox's FF has to compete with that regardless of the quality of the Movie.

And thats where they'll fail with trying to short-cut. There are no short-cuts!! Go Big or Go Home!! Thats all there is. The little film will make little money at the BO

I've said before that they're backed in a corner and they may not even know that they've lost. But they'll find out in due time.


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Old 03-25-2014, 09:43 PM   #98
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

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Its a catch 22 situation if the movie is bad and does well, it encourages Fox to do more of the same and we get something like the Transformer franchise, mindless junk that masses love that is not very good. If it is bad and does poorly, it could send the FF franchise into limbo for a long while, ditto is the film is good and does poorly, that would be a shame. If the movie is good and does well, maybe we finally get something good related to the FF.
Its not a catch22 to me at all... The threat of a transformers bad quad-rilogy is far worse an option than no more movies with the chance of a rights reversion.

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Old 03-26-2014, 12:12 AM   #99
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

You all realize that something being grounded does not mean it lacks imagination, some sense of wonder, etc, right?

MAN OF STEEL was called "grounded", and was, in many respects, but wasn't, in any major sense, "realistic".

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Old 03-26-2014, 07:57 AM   #100
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

The word "grounded" gets thrown around too much these days and has become a meaningless buzzword.

What people really mean to say is that the movie sets the rules of the story's universe and follows them. Nothing happens by magic.

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