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Old 03-30-2014, 01:39 PM   #26
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

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The Winter Soldier was never going to be fully formed, with many lines and scenes, since he was the implement being used by the villain rather the main villain. He's more of another thing that Steve must confront from his past in the modern day. In the comics, his character wasn't starting to fully be fleshed out until he had regained his memories, which is I the way Marvel will go about it in the MCU.
^^This. Also imo Bucky was pretty crucial in that seeing what Hydra had done to him sealed the deal for Steve when he was deciding what needed to be done about Shield. It made the issue deeply personal for him and you could feel that during the "This is how it ends. Everything goes" scene.

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Old 03-30-2014, 01:43 PM   #27
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

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The Winter Soldier was never going to be fully formed, with many lines and scenes, since he was the implement being used by the villain rather the main villain. He's more of another thing that Steve must confront from his past in the modern day. In the comics, his character wasn't starting to fully be fleshed out until he had regained his memories, which is I the way Marvel will go about it in the MCU.
The movie is called "The Winter Soldier" and that character is heavily promoted as the main villain, so i think it´s fair to expect something a little better from the character. The movie lacks a charismatic and interesting villain with the ability of testing Cap with more than just a fist fight. To me it looked more like a pretty boy in a mask, doing henchman type of work.

Regardless of the reason The Winter Soldier is in this, the movie could have done a better job with him. This movie is well over 2 hours, for god´s sake. More than enough time to build an interesting character. You take a couple of kicks from each action scene and you´re left with enough time to build a great story and great characters.

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Old 03-30-2014, 01:53 PM   #28
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

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The movie is called "The Winter Soldier" and that character is heavily promoted as the main villain, so i think it´s fair to expect something a little better from the character. The movie lacks a charismatic and interesting villain with the ability of testing Cap with more than just a fist fight. To me it looked more like a pretty boy in a mask, doing henchman type of work.

Regardless of the reason The Winter Soldier is in this, the movie could have done a better job with him. This movie is well over 2 hours, for god´s sake. More than enough time to build an interesting character. You take a couple of kicks from each action scene and you´re left with enough time to build a great story and great characters.
But considering Bucky is under mind/brain control for most of the movie, I don't know exactly how much you could really expect for his character's emotions to come out. The Winter Soldier in the comics is initially supposed to be a heartless, emotionless assassin, which is what he sounds like in the film. It isn't until Steve mentions Bucky to him and starts fighting him that the memories start coming back. WS/Bucky saving Steve and then running off to parts unknown is very accurate to how his character was done in Brubaker's run. It sounds more like a lack of understanding of the WS character than anything on your part.

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Old 03-30-2014, 02:07 PM   #29
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

I do think it's a fair observation that the Winter Soldier was not the central part of a movie that was called The Winter Soldier. It felt like that original idea grew into something else. But I guess that calling it anything else would have given away the conspiracy at the heart of the movie.

Are we to assume that Winter Soldier will be in the next movie, then? Cap and Falcon did say they were going to find him.

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Old 03-30-2014, 02:07 PM   #30
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

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But considering Bucky is under mind/brain control for most of the movie, I don't know exactly how much you could really expect for his character's emotions to come out. The Winter Soldier in the comics is initially supposed to be a heartless, emotionless assassin, which is what he sounds like in the film. It isn't until Steve mentions Bucky to him and starts fighting him that the memories start coming back. WS/Bucky saving Steve and then running off to parts unknown is very accurate to how his character was done in Brubaker's run. It sounds more like a lack of understanding of the WS character than anything on your part.
The whole situation could have been much better developed. He could have had more scenes, the mystery surrounding him could have lasted a little longer and been better built up in order to mystify a little more the character and keep the audience on the edge of their seats.

The fact that the character is supposed to be an emotionless assassin doesn´t invalidate the fact that he could have had way better scenes and been better explored. Especially since this is called Captain America: TWS.

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Old 03-30-2014, 02:36 PM   #31
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

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Are we to assume that Winter Soldier will be in the next movie, then? Cap and Falcon did say they were going to find him.
It's all but guaranteed that the Winter Soldier will be heavily featured in Cap 3 based on what the Russos have been saying in interviews. They keep mentioning that they saw this story as a two-parter and "the story between Cap and the WS isn't finished."

This is actually the main reason why I'm satisfied with what we got of the WS in this movie. At first I wished he could have had more screen time to because there were even parts of the movie where it felt like he'd been temporarily forgotten about, and I could have used more scenes showing Steve's pain about the whole situation (there were so many great panels in the comics showing that too). But knowing we're getting more Bucky (probably a lot more) in Cap 3 is mollifying. I just don't feel justified complaining about it lol.

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Old 03-30-2014, 02:45 PM   #32
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

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No need to be snarky. I gave Avengers a 9, and the first Iron Man an 8 or 9 as well. I'm entitled to my opinion. Get used to it.
It was a joke. Hence the smilies.

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Old 03-30-2014, 03:30 PM   #33
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

I thought that the Peggy scene was too short.

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Old 03-30-2014, 04:01 PM   #34
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

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The fact that the character is supposed to be an emotionless assassin doesn´t invalidate the fact that he could have had way better scenes and been better explored. Especially since this is called Captain America: TWS.
Except here in my country it's called The Return of the first Avenger. Stupid title

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Old 03-30-2014, 04:25 PM   #35
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

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Except here in my country it's called The Return of the first Avenger. Stupid title
It´s actually a much more suitable title. But yeah, to change it is pretty stupid. I mean, the movie has an official name. Why change it?

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Old 03-30-2014, 04:36 PM   #36
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

Exactly. And I think it's a bit repetetive to call it that since the first one has almost the same title.

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Old 03-30-2014, 04:45 PM   #37
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

Wanted to see more of the Man out of time, they shortened it. Wanted to see more of Grimlow vs Sam, they shortened it. Wanted more of Agent 13 and Maria hill. That's all. Score was meh.

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Old 03-30-2014, 05:32 PM   #38
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

If there's one thing I didn't like early on was Sitwell's "punchline" when taken in as hostage. One of the pirates falls to the ground after getting shot and Sitwell said something like "Told you, SHIELD doesn't negotiate with terrorists".

It was delivered in such a way that we were supposed to laugh, but I think it fell flat.

Part from that, can't think of anything else!

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Old 03-30-2014, 05:49 PM   #39
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

There's only one single thing I didn't like in the whole movie:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
The little device that cuts concrete. A deus ex machina used not only once, but twice

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Old 03-30-2014, 06:25 PM   #40
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

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Wanted to see more of the Man out of time, they shortened it. Wanted to see more of Grimlow vs Sam, they shortened it. Wanted more of Agent 13 and Maria hill. That's all. Score was meh.
Teekay, what type of Man out of time scenes were cut in final film or shortened that was in the rough cut?

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Old 03-30-2014, 06:31 PM   #41
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

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Teekay, what type of Man out of time scenes were cut in final film or shortened that was in the rough cut?
They were shortened. There was more with Steve riding around town with his bike. Most of the fight scenes were shortened as well.

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Old 03-30-2014, 06:37 PM   #42
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

Only 2 things bugged me.

1. The score: the nod to Silvestri's theme at the beginning rubs in just how PERFECT that score was but here the music is totally generic.

2. I wish the Rumlow/Falcon fight was longer. It had a great into then just cut to the end. (this is more of a nitpick though)

Other than that, just fantastic. So glad the Russos are returning!

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Old 03-30-2014, 07:15 PM   #43
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They were shortened. There was more with Steve riding around town with his bike. Most of the fight scenes were shortened as well.
The movie was AWESOME! but them cutting some of the man out of time scenes is a shame. Could you maybe give more detail, if you can remember like where about at the start of the film did those scenes used to be, what else happens other than riding on his bike, where does he go etc

Also what fights were shortened and does it make a big difference in the final version?

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Old 03-30-2014, 10:29 PM   #44
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10. It wasn't an X-Men film.

You know comments like that would only start arguments.

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Old 03-30-2014, 10:38 PM   #45
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

More Sharon would've been nice....mostly because I think she's hot though

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Old 03-31-2014, 01:48 AM   #46
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

I'd have liked a crossbones reference, something like a skull mask(the military type seen in COD). Or Rumlov could have been code named crossbones. Not a massive issue.

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Old 03-31-2014, 05:31 AM   #47
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

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I thought the film a solid 'good' - maybe 7/10...but had a few issues with it:

1. It's overlong and feels baggy and saggy in places

2. You can feel the sceenwriting (Ok, so we must have a high-octane, super-kinetic action scene any time now..)

3. It's overly destructive (never seen so many cars and aircraft wrecked in my life). Too much!

4. I found myself looking at it rather than being engaged with it (I was thinking 'Yes, those digital effects look good', rather than 'Oh my God, how will they survive that?')

5. What happens in the movie renders the Agents of SHIELD series completely redundant. Not even a mention of Hawkeye or Agent Coulson despite the massive ramifications of the plot.

6. Everyone who fights is some sort of super acrobat doing backflips all over the place. I guess Batroc (who looked very sexy! lol) went to circus school..

7. Scenes of aircraft ploughing into tall buildings show that America's obsession with revisiting/reliving 9/11 just will not go away, and I really wish it would.

8. The scene right at the end of the credits really is not worth the effort of staying. We felt conned, and everyone else in the cinema was groaning too at having to wait for something like that.

9. The score was nothing much, semeed like just a few cheesy patriotic chords at times when Cap was doing his thing. Just wasn't memorable.

So the film is good (I'd give it a 7), but that's why I think it isn't any more than a solid good. There were only 10 people in the auditorium on a main Saturday night screening. Didn't bother with the 3D version as two people at work said the post-conversion was bad and the action scenes were all fuzzy.
I disagree with the idea that it's overly long. It seemed to be the right length to me.

I think the action was spaced out quite evenly and worked well. You're always gonna be expecting an action sequence around the corner when it comes to movies like this.

Overly destructive? That seems like a really silly complaint for a comic book movie.

Agents of Shield will probably face huge, sweeping changes as the team deals with the fallout from this film. It can only make the show better really.

Not everyone was an acrobat. Batroc is known as "Batroc the Leaper" in the comics and is an amazing gymnast. That's part of his character. Captain America has the skills of an olympic athlete, and Winter Soldier is not much different. Even Black Widow is an extremely adept, acrobatic fighter. So I see no problems there. If Falcon were doing somersaults all over the place then maybe you'd be right.

I don't think having the helicarrier smash into the building is representative of some sort of 9/11 fetish. It wasn't just any building, it was the Triskelion, and obviously it was also meant to set up
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
the confrontation between Falcon and Rumlow.


Most of the end credit scenes aren't anything amazing. They're just little bonuses.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
This one has a purpose to slightly lead into the distant Cap 3 movie.


I agree on the score, it wasn't anything special.

If anything, I wish the Winter Soldier himself had more dialogue and was developed better. But otherwise it was a great movie. 7/10 seems too low to me, seeing as this movie did a lot of stuff right, aside from a few minor issues. I'd give it a 9/10 overall. They made great use of all the characters. They didn't discount or forget anyone, and let them all shine in their own ways. If nothing else, they introduced a slew of characters that will appear in the upcoming films. I can't wait.

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Old 03-31-2014, 07:16 AM   #48
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I don't really think this is something I didn't like, but yeah.. If Natasha has this device which disguised her as a member of the World Security Council, then wouldn't Nick be able to have that device in a way? I mean, anyone could. Nick could have put on one so he doesn't have to go to Europe?

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Old 03-31-2014, 11:10 AM   #49
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You know comments like that would only start arguments.
Only if you take it to heart.

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Old 03-31-2014, 11:25 AM   #50
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Can someone tell me if the CG looks better in the final film? because it looks pretty dang rough at the end of this clip.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

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