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Old 04-15-2014, 01:09 AM   #51
scatterax
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

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The Sam and Steve bond was a highlight, absolutely, and a nice counterpoint to Bucky/Cap, but the actual arc of Wilson was somewhat lacking in relation.

I would think exploring the themes better, and it really wouldn't require much more screentime, just a bit of tinkering with existing lines, would be somewhere along the lines of delving just a little deeper into the trauma that Sam experienced.

Wilson's specialized training didn't just cause him to lose a friend and ally, which is we've seen soldier characters refer to countless times on film...but it caused him to experience real, personal trauma. His experiences in combat fundamentally changed him as a person, who he was, what he was able to do, and perhaps even how he viewed the world, life, etc. Even though he had a positive outlook and was doing constructive things, he could still be, in some respects, a broken man because of what he'd been through. He'd probably have lost some of his sense of purpose upon his return from combat. I would play with some of those ideas, as well as its interplay with Steve and their friendship. Have him eventually not wanting to let down another friend...or valuing his new friend so much that he overcomes his trauma. Something.

Then, when he puts the wings on, it actually MEANS something, as a character, thematically, and emotionally.

It's not just "Cool, he's putting the wings on! I've always wanted to see The Falcon on screen."

I'd tie Sam's experience to Captain America's own experiences as a soldier, and in combat, and feeling "out of place" in the world he's discovered since his return from his "mission" (not just losing partners), and delve into the will it takes to get back out there, to do what you're meant and trained to do, even when you've experienced trauma or loss as a result.

They sort of hint at PTSD being an issue, but like Tony Stark's similar issue in IRON MAN 3, its quite vague and they never really go there and do anything with it in relation to Sam himself, other than showing he's a counselor.

Yeah, he's a good guy who is aware of the issue and trying to help others, but you don't see any real conflict in Sam about getting back out there, using his skills, fighting the good fight, etc. He's this well-adjusted guy that something bad happened to and he just kind of doesn't wear the wings anymore because his tour is over, and then he's strapping on a jetpack with wings because his new friend is Captain America and **** hit the fan.

And beyond that stuff, he's The Falcon. Flight, the joy of flight, and the different world it creates for him, is a huge part of his character, and he's been "grounded" in a sense. He's incomplete. So I'd use "flight" as a literary metaphor, as Wilson's sense of freedom, not just a visual cue. Show The Falcon trying to get back into the swing of it at some point, truly missing the skies, the rush of the wings, the power, the freedom, the ability to save lives, but then maybe even being unable to "take off" at first in a key moment, because even as he misses it, he fears it. Something to drive the point home. Don't just tell us about his trauma. SHOW us why it matters.

There's something almost there in the movie, but its not really there. For me, they introduced some nice ideas, but they never quite solidified them into a decent conflict for The Falcon or an interesting character arc in relation to his effectively becoming a superhero.
Sounds like you wanted what was explored to be fleshed out more, rather than actually exploring new territory with the characters back story.

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Last edited by scatterax; 04-15-2014 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:28 AM   #52
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

I really wonder about posters on here sometimes.

Yesterday I deleted dozens off off topic posts...made a warning post to stop all the off topic posts...and so today I have removed dozens more off off topic posts.

But today has the added bonus of multiple infractions for ignoring me.

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Old 04-15-2014, 09:38 AM   #53
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

After avoiding these boards for a couple of weeks, my wife and I were finally able to see the movie last night. I kept hearing the hype about how good the movie it, so my expectations were high.

I really enjoyed the movie. It feels like it's been a while since anything substantial in the MCU has changed over though course of a movie, and it really kept me guessing. The Russo's really did a great job of getting strong performances from the whole cast.

Even though Cap isn't a character that I've ever really associated with, I can appreciate a good tale. Well played.

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Old 04-15-2014, 09:39 AM   #54
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

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Well then there's "trolling" going on from both ends...because you told me in a different thread that I missed the central theme of the movie. Difference is that I consider that passionate debating, not trolling.
I agree it was coming from both sides and usually does. Regarding what I told you on the other thread.

I said that the central theme of the movie was Steve coping with continuing to serve because that's all he ever knew how to do and coping with who to trust. You seemed to say that Steve didn't have much of an arc because he always had a distrust for SHIELD.

Steve's arc was figuring out what he really wanted to do, and coping with loss, and then the shock of finding out his best friend was not only alive, but a wanted assassin.

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Old 04-15-2014, 10:28 AM   #55
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

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BTW The Smithsonian scene did a great job of giving backstory to those who never saw or don't remember TFA. And in a way that doesn't feel forced.

Perhaps the best part was the Peggy video followed by showing Steve's picture of her in the compass. That's all you need to know to understand their relationship. And then it's followed by seeing her today.

I love subtle writing like that.
It was my favorite scene in the entire film.

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Old 04-15-2014, 11:22 AM   #56
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

I watched it again this past weekend. I must say it held up even better upon rewatching. I originally gave it a 9, but I think I'll go with 9.5

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Old 04-15-2014, 11:35 AM   #57
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

It really does. I've watched it a couple of times, and now knowing the plot and how things unfold, I feel that everything really clicks in this movie. The dialogue, the characters, the action, the story.

It's wonderful and engrossing and I still hold it's a 10 in my heart.

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Old 04-15-2014, 12:08 PM   #58
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

One minor complaint from me...might come across as silly to you people...

Is that When Cap was fighting Winter Soldier... His face expression..he looked kinda scared.

Dunno why it bothered me, lol...

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Old 04-15-2014, 12:15 PM   #59
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

Maybe because he was? It's rather understandable, as he came out of nowhere, is extremely dangerous and intent on killing him and his friends, and he also killed Nick Fury in cold blood.

I think he was surprised more than scared, at how the Winter Soldier was able to match him in combat.

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Old 04-15-2014, 12:20 PM   #60
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

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Maybe because he was? It's rather understandable, as he came out of nowhere, is extremely dangerous and intent on killing him and his friends, and he also killed Nick Fury in cold blood.

I think he was surprised more than scared, at how the Winter Soldier was able to match him in combat.
Oh yeah...i totally agree...I don't honestly knows why it bothered me lol

I think maybe because i expected him to react the same way as he did with Batroc.

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Old 04-15-2014, 12:38 PM   #61
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

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Oh yeah...i totally agree...I don't honestly knows why it bothered me lol

I think maybe because i expected him to react the same way as he did with Batroc.
Batroc is an amazing fighter, but he's not an unstoppable killing machine like TWS.

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Old 04-15-2014, 12:45 PM   #62
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

WS wasn't unstoppable either. I think in the first encounter he was initially surprised at the suddenness of the assault and his strength. WS was armed with a gun, a knife and his cybernetic arm and Cap didn't have his shield for most of the fight but he was still more than holding his own. Then he was in shock when he saw it was Bucky. In the end fight though he says "Don't make me do this". Cap knows he can take WS down - and he does to save people - but he doesn't want to hurt or kill him at that point.

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Old 04-15-2014, 01:40 PM   #63
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

I'd say the Winter Soldier was still by far the most capable opponent he has ever faced, in the WWII era or the modern world. While Cap can handle him, it definitely wasn't easy and WS did end up putting Cap in the hospital.

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Old 04-15-2014, 01:56 PM   #64
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

While WS is impressive, he only put Steve in the hospital because he stopped fighting and let the WS nearly bet him to death. Before that Cap had beaten him - broken his arm and choked him out instead of killing him.

The Red Skull as strong as Steve, stronger than the WS though not as skilled or capable. Loki though was on another god-like level and there were the Chitauri.

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Old 04-15-2014, 01:58 PM   #65
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

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I'd say the Winter Soldier was still by far the most capable opponent he has ever faced, in the WWII era or the modern world. While Cap can handle him, it definitely wasn't easy and WS did end up putting Cap in the hospital.
Well yeah but only because he SHOT Cap several times after being defeated. Cap is clearly the superior soldier, which I love since it shouldn't lead to a case of making him underpowered in AOU.

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Old 04-15-2014, 02:05 PM   #66
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

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I'd say the Winter Soldier was still by far the most capable opponent he has ever faced, in the WWII era or the modern world. While Cap can handle him, it definitely wasn't easy and WS did end up putting Cap in the hospital.
He dropped his SHIELD, announced he wasn't going to fight him and just let himself get beat up.

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Old 04-15-2014, 02:28 PM   #67
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

I prefer to think of "unstoppable" as "will get up and keep going like the Terminator," not necessarily "undefeatable."

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Old 04-15-2014, 02:38 PM   #68
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

Yeah, I think as WS, Bucky was pretty much programmed not to necessarily let silly things like injuries and whatnot deter him from laying his beatdowns. He was programmed to kill and only kill, and he was basically a whirling dervish against Cap.

What I *REALLY* loved about their fight scenes, and I admit that it hits me where I live, is watching when Steve and WS are duking it out in the streets with those fast and furious punches and knifetricks by Winter Soldier, Steve's pretty successful at blocking his attacks. Then WS starts getting clearly angry and his punches get almost… sloppy? I should say sloppy and violent. He's still brutal, but the fact that Steve won't go down and keeps deflecting him very clearly infuriates him and his moves show that frustration. It's the second sign of WS' facade cracking.

The first sign is when Natasha outsmarts him and nicks his goggles with a bullet. He takes them off and then rains bullets above her. Hah! nothing says true love like gunplay between spies

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Old 04-15-2014, 02:40 PM   #69
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

Rather, relentless.

Bucky could have been stopped if Steve has chosen to break his neck instead of render him unconscious (not that Bucky was grateful mind you - what with the shooting and the bludgeoning). The Terminator would have taken a bit more work though I don't doubt Steve would have been up to the task.

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Old 04-15-2014, 03:06 PM   #70
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

Cap>WS>>>Widow=Rumlow=Batroc>>Falcon

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Old 04-15-2014, 03:14 PM   #71
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

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While WS is impressive, he only put Steve in the hospital because he stopped fighting and let the WS nearly bet him to death. Before that Cap had beaten him - broken his arm and choked him out instead of killing him.

The Red Skull as strong as Steve, stronger than the WS though not as skilled or capable. Loki though was on another god-like level and there were the Chitauri.
The Red Skull was killing Cap. He only lost because he went for the Tesseract and it did him in.

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Old 04-15-2014, 04:27 PM   #72
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

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Cap>WS>>>Widow=Rumlow=Batroc>>Falcon
Batrock should be above BW in fighting strength and ability IMO. he gave cap a run for his money. Not quite as much as WS but enough for me to believe he could just toss BW around too.

So what is Batrocs comic powers? and how well were they emulated in the movie?

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My 10 personal favorite comic book/super hero movies:
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4) The Dark Knight Rises 5) The Incredible Hulk 6) Scott Pilgrim vs The World
7)X-Men:Days of Future Past 8) X-Men:First Class 9) Thor 10) Spider-Man 2
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Old 04-15-2014, 04:33 PM   #73
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

No superpowers, but is an Olympic level athlete with stronger than normal leg muscles. Also can lift massive weight via his legs. I thought they had toned him down from the comics because I thought he had powers, but that was pretty accurate what they did.

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Old 04-15-2014, 05:11 PM   #74
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

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No superpowers, but is an Olympic level athlete with stronger than normal leg muscles. Also can lift massive weight via his legs. I thought they had toned him down from the comics because I thought he had powers, but that was pretty accurate what they did.
Olympic level the same way Cap is? "theoretically possible" strength, with the speed of an olympian track runner, rather than the stocky movement of someone with the muscle mass required for that strength? with the flexibility of bruce lee?

in other words the best of every human extreme at once? sounds like a super power to me.

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7)X-Men:Days of Future Past 8) X-Men:First Class 9) Thor 10) Spider-Man 2
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Old 04-15-2014, 05:27 PM   #75
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

An Olympic level athlete but not all facets.

Cap, is also the peak of human potential which should far outpace any current Olympian. Olympic records are broken all the time - as training and techniques advance as well as that push from competition. For example, Johnny Weissmuller won five Gold medals in the 1920s with record breaking times. Those times are regularly broken in girl state swim events.

Moreover, Cap t has peak human speed, strength, flexibility, endurance etc. Which is why he can run or rather jog 13 miles in 30 minutes. He can run sprinter times for a mile or faster than a miler's pace for a marathon etc.


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