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Old 05-07-2014, 01:36 PM   #101
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No, he wasn't. His presence was not known until the end of Batman Begins when Gordon was talking about escalation because of Batman, and then hands him the Joker card, telling him about a new criminal who has a taste for the theatrical like Batman does.
That's the point of escalation lol. Joker doesn't exist as he is without Batman. I thought people realized that that is the entire point of Dark Knight and the end of Begins. But anyways, i just dont want to see Joker without Batman.

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Old 05-07-2014, 01:46 PM   #102
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No, he wasn't. His presence was not known until the end of Batman Begins when Gordon was talking about escalation because of Batman, and then hands him the Joker card, telling him about a new criminal who has a taste for the theatrical like Batman does.
BatLobsterRisies mentioned that he was "ripping of mob dealers"

The Joker never mentions in TDK that he was inspired by Bats.

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Old 05-07-2014, 01:50 PM   #103
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BatLobsterRisies mentioned that he was "ripping of mob dealers"
Assuming he's not lying about that, ripping off mob dealers is not causing mayhem in Gotham.

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The Joker never mentions in TDK that he was inspired by Bats.
Of course he doesn't. He doesn't say anything about his past except tell two different contradictory stories about his scars, which are also likely a pack of lies, too.

The ending to Batman Begins says it when Gordon is talking about escalation because of Batman, and that's when he says "Take this guy; armed robbery, double homicide, got a taste for the theatrical like you. Leaves a calling card".

If that isn't clear enough for you, Nolan also said it. "The Joker is the logical reaction to Batman". It's in the making of The Dark Knight trilogy book. I can scan it if you doubt me.

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Old 05-07-2014, 02:05 PM   #104
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"We never wanted to do an origin story for The Joker in this film, but we wanted to show the rise of The Joker", Nolan maintains. "In a sense, The Joker is the logical response to Batman, who has instigated this kind of extremity of behavior in Gotham".
http://emanuellevy.com/comment/dark-...d-the-joker-7/

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Old 05-07-2014, 02:05 PM   #105
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Right, I was basically just pointing out that if Joker is to believed he was basically just a small time crook before Batman. I would tend to think he probably had a few screws loose to begin with, but Batman puts on the mask first.

And that was the point, Joker says "What would I do without you? Go back to ripping off mob dealers? No, NO...you...complete me." That pretty heavily implies that The Joker cannot exist without Batman existing first and he knows and embraces that.

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Old 05-07-2014, 02:06 PM   #106
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They even talk about it in the trilogy documentary.

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Old 05-08-2014, 02:35 PM   #107
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According to the showrunner, the kid who plays Bruce in Gotham is the greatest actor who has ever played Bruce Wayne including the ones who have played Batman...


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Old 05-08-2014, 02:41 PM   #108
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According to the showrunner, the kid who plays Bruce in Gotham is the greatest actor who has ever played Bruce Wayne including the ones who have played Batman...

I'm more optimistic about the show than it seems most in here are, but I severely doubt he's the best. That's just ridiculous. Bruce as a kid? Maybe, since he'll get a lot more to do than anyone else. But best Bruce Wayne of any age? I really doubt it.


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Old 05-08-2014, 02:55 PM   #109
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I wish they went the Gotham Central route. Batman is more of a shadowy figure who rarely appears. But the GCPD still come into contact with his Rogues from time to time. Some of them don't like Batman getting involved because they are corrupt and/or think it undermines them. Gordon regularly sneaks off, alluding to him going to the Bat signal.

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Old 05-08-2014, 03:57 PM   #110
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The showrunner seems like kind of a d-bag based on that comment and some others. My faith in this show keeps plummeting.

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Old 05-08-2014, 04:58 PM   #111
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Yeah he rubs me the wrong way. Even if the show was really good and i was excited, i still think he comes off as a douchebag. His attitude is a bit like a "what we're doing is going to be better than anything they've tried to do with Gotham City and Bruce Wayne".

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Old 05-08-2014, 05:30 PM   #112
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Oh I think Bruno Heller always comes across as douche-y in his interviews.

The fact that he compares this little kid to an Oscar-winning actor (who was once a child star himself) is, frankly, laughable.

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Old 05-08-2014, 10:29 PM   #113
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According to the showrunner, the kid who plays Bruce in Gotham is the greatest actor who has ever played Bruce Wayne including the ones who have played Batman...


I think what's funnier is that he didn't even say "he has the best Bruce Wayne portrayal" or something like that which while IMO is still stupid can at least be argued by those who hated Keaton/Kilmer/Clooney/Bale's BW portrayal but nooooo... he just flat out went straight to "he's the best actor who has portrayed BW".


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Old 05-08-2014, 11:27 PM   #114
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what a lunatic.

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Old 05-08-2014, 11:36 PM   #115
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:47 AM   #116
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Assuming he's not lying about that, ripping off mob dealers is not causing mayhem in Gotham.



Of course he doesn't. He doesn't say anything about his past except tell two different contradictory stories about his scars, which are also likely a pack of lies, too.

The ending to Batman Begins says it when Gordon is talking about escalation because of Batman, and that's when he says "Take this guy; armed robbery, double homicide, got a taste for the theatrical like you. Leaves a calling card".

If that isn't clear enough for you, Nolan also said it. "The Joker is the logical reaction to Batman". It's in the making of The Dark Knight trilogy book. I can scan it if you doubt me.

"Those mob fools want you gone, so they can go back to the way things were. But I know the truth. There's no going back. You've changed things forever. There's no going back...I don't want to kill you. What would I do without you? Go back to ripping off mob dealers? No, you complete me."

I think he pretty much says that he was inspired right there.

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Old 05-10-2014, 10:46 PM   #117
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According to the showrunner, the kid who plays Bruce in Gotham is the greatest actor who has ever played Bruce Wayne including the ones who have played Batman...

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Old 05-11-2014, 12:16 AM   #118
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I also read a quote from him saying the show looked better than the recent Batman movies. I'm not quite sure if he specifically meant the style or the actual camerawork, but the cinematography in the Dark Knight trilogy is pretty much beyond reproach. I don't know why he feels the need to compare his show to any other iteration of Batman, especially with such extreme claims.

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Old 05-11-2014, 06:25 AM   #119
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Fair enough. You/Shaunner/DACrowe are right.

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Old 05-11-2014, 07:45 AM   #120
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I think it's sort of splitting hairs.

Clearly the man underneath the make-up didn't start existing the moment he saw Batman as well as his being a criminal doesn't logically follow being birthed from the birth of Batman. That line about "Going back to ripping of mobsters" isn't a decoy. That's what he did before.

However the idea, persona and scale of "The Joker" as a title is a logical response to Batman. This idea that the city is a playground and everything is fair (even when it's unfair) is a Joker mentality that is as grand as Batman is with justice.

So it's kind of like both sides are right.

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Old 05-11-2014, 11:53 AM   #121
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That's true, but i think the showrunner has been hinting that we will see the Joker in this, makeup, character and all. And that to me is just wrong.

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Old 05-11-2014, 02:33 PM   #122
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That's true, but i think the showrunner has been hinting that we will see the Joker in this, makeup, character and all. And that to me is just wrong.
I would not like it if we got The Joker with make up and everything even a good ten years before Bruce becomes Batman, let alone when he's a kid!

I can see why they would want to do that though. He's a very iconic villain and arguably the best Batman villain.

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Old 05-11-2014, 02:49 PM   #123
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That's a horrible reason to use him though. Ratings, ratings, ratings. Instead of logic and storytelling. Good storytelling will bring in the ratings. And people will stick around. Try to lure them in with a gimmick and the ratings will come and go with a snap of a finger.

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Old 05-11-2014, 03:33 PM   #124
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Which could work for the long run if Batman was in it or people were really drawn to the rogues, but i dont see that happening. So they'll just try to do crappy kid versions of the villains to lure in the viewers. I just dont think it's going to work. I really hope they dont mess with Joker.

This could have been a GREAT concept if it was all about Gordon taking down the mob with Cobblepot thrown in. But the catwoman, joker, riddler and poison ivy stuff seems extremely forced.

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Old 05-11-2014, 03:36 PM   #125
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That's a horrible reason to use him though. Ratings, ratings, ratings. Instead of logic and storytelling. Good storytelling will bring in the ratings. And people will stick around. Try to lure them in with a gimmick and the ratings will come and go with a snap of a finger.
I agree but I could see them doing it unfortunatly.

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