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Old 05-20-2014, 12:26 AM   #1
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - Part 54

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:26 AM   #2
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 53

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:26 AM   #3
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - Part 54

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I have called no one a hater. Dislike the film all you want. But to say, "the stakes weren't shown" in the film is false. Plain and simple.

And yes, you can't just say that it's all subjective and about one's feelings and then turn around and wave the pretty useless RT score of the film.

Tell me you disliked the film and what about it FELT off, why it didn't appeal to you? Fine. Tell me that the film didn't have X, Y or Z when it clearly did? That's another story.
Alright. I FELT as though there were no stakes during the final battle. To ME, it FELT like two superhumans simply brawling in a large city. I did not FEEL the same level of excitement or thrill as I felt in the climaxes of the TDK trilogy or the Avengers. That is how I FELT. To say otherwise is simply false.

I also do not "hate" or "dislike" the film, it's more that I was disappointed by it. No one was as hyped for MoS as myself. Maybe my expectations were too high.

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:28 AM   #4
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

Dammit! Just missed out on closing/opening a thread!

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - Part 54

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Alright. I FELT as though there were no stakes during the final battle. To ME, it FELT like two superhumans simply brawling in a large city. I did not FEEL the same level of excitement or thrill as I felt in the climaxes of the TDK trilogy or the Avengers. That is how I FELT. To say otherwise is simply false.

I also do not "hate" or "dislike" the film, it's more that I was disappointed by it. No one was as hyped for MoS as myself. Maybe my expectations were too high.
Alright, horses and colors and all that... So, the scenes and moments I pointed out, where we are given visually, through dialog and exposition what the stakes are, why do you feel they were off. I'm not messing with you. Truly, what about those moments was not enough, or seemed lacking to you? Elucidate your position. Again, I actually do understand many of the criticisms of the film, even though I don't share them. This is a new one to me. Help me to understand where you are coming from with this critique.

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:38 AM   #6
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - Part 54

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Alright. I FELT as though there were no stakes during the final battle. To ME, it FELT like two superhumans simply brawling in a large city. I did not FEEL the same level of excitement or thrill as I felt in the climaxes of the TDK trilogy or the Avengers. That is how I FELT. To say otherwise is simply false.

I also do not "hate" or "dislike" the film, it's more that I was disappointed by it. No one was as hyped for MoS as myself. Maybe my expectations were too high.
Eh, I fell into the trap too based on the trailer so don't beat yourself up over it. Snyder knows how to cut a trailer. I am in agreement with you with regards to the final battle. It really was a hollow fight where it felt like nothing was really at stake. I maintain though it was oversight on the creative teams part, they were trying so hard to make it look so visually impressive they forgot to make it about something. Basically it was reckless on two fronts, from a character perspective and a creative one.

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:38 AM   #7
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - Part 54

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Alright, horses and colors and all that... So, the scenes and moments I pointed out, where we are given visually, through dialog and exposition what the stakes are, why do you feel they were off. I'm not messing with you. Truly, what about those moments was not enough, or seemed lacking to you? Elucidate your position. Again, I actually do understand many of the criticisms of the film, even though I don't share them. This is a new one to me. Help me to understand where you are coming from with this critique.
You don't have to though, because they're not going to change your position. Just because people had a different opinion than yours doesn't mean you have to get to the bottom of it.

This would be an abysmal forum if we were all wanking off at how excellent these movies are. People expressing differing opinions doesn't mean it has to become a dispute every time.

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:47 AM   #8
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

I don't want to drag on this debate about the final battle of MoS (although there are several reasons I believe it wasn't up to par).

I will say that unlike the final battle, the first flight scene was exhilarating. I actually felt a sense of awe, and it felt as though I myself am flying for the first time. It was the best scene in the film, for me. You don't have to look any farther than that scene to understand why I feel the final battle was uninspired. It lacked heart, while the first flight scene was full of heart.

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:50 AM   #9
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

^ 100% agree with that. It's the best scene in the movie. That's unfortunately what MoS can be summed up as, a series of good scenes mixed in with a batch of ordinary scenes. It's a very frustrating experience.

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:53 AM   #10
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

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I don't want to drag on this debate about the final battle of MoS (although there are several reasons I believe it wasn't up to par).

I will say that unlike the final battle, the first flight scene was exhilarating. I actually felt a sense of awe, and it felt as though I myself am flying for the first time. It was the best scene in the film, for me. You don't have to look any farther than that scene to understand why I feel the final battle was uninspired. It lacked heart, while the first flight scene was full of heart.
I agree with you. I find myself sort of having a mixed to negative perception of the final battle. The fight on the ground where Clark is trying to stop Zod from destroying more **** is interesting. But, the moment where Zod takes the battle to the skies, that's when it "jumped the shark" for me, so to speak. It starts to look a little silly, unbelievable and had crappy CGI compared to previous fight scenes.

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:53 AM   #11
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

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I don't want to drag on this debate about the final battle of MoS (although there are several reasons I believe it wasn't up to par).

I will say that unlike the final battle, the first flight scene was exhilarating. I actually felt a sense of awe, and it felt as though I myself am flying for the first time. It was the best scene in the film, for me. You don't have to look any farther than that scene to understand why I feel the final battle was uninspired. It lacked heart, while the first flight scene was full of heart.
I know why you didn't like the final fight. It's because he wasn't smiling though out it, right?

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I agree with you. I find myself sort of having a mixed to negative perception of the final battle. The fight on the ground where Clark is trying to stop Zod from destroying more **** is interesting. But, the moment where Zod takes the battle to the skies, that's when it "jumped the shark" for me, so to speak. It starts to look a little silly, unbelievable and had crappy CGI compared to previous fight scenes.

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:55 AM   #12
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

DA said something in the other thread before it closed that I wanted to respond to:

"Hiring Terrio can be interpreted as a response to MoS criticisms."

This is what I'm looking for when I talked about Snyder responding to the right criticisms. This is a great response to them. A number of complaints can fall under the "script" umbrella, so he's killing a few birds with one stone. This is an appropriate response instead of say... him cutting out all the major action scenes or dramatically lightening the tone ASM2 style.

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:56 AM   #13
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:59 AM   #14
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

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DA said something in the other thread before it closed that I wanted to respond to:

"Hiring Terrio can be interpreted as a response to MoS criticisms."

This is what I'm looking for when I talked about Snyder responding to the right criticisms. This is a great response to them. A number of complaints can fall under the "script" umbrella, so he's killing a few birds with one stone. This is an appropriate response instead of say... him cutting out all the major action scenes or dramatically lightening the tone ASM2 style.
Every major creative should watch ASM2, a great example of how to do things wrong !

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:59 AM   #15
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

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DA said something in the other thread before it closed that I wanted to respond to:

"Hiring Terrio can be interpreted as a response to MoS criticisms."

This is what I'm looking for when I talked about Snyder responding to the right criticisms. This is a great response to them. A number of complaints can fall under the "script" umbrella, so he's killing a few birds with one stone. This is an appropriate response instead of say... him cutting out all the major action scenes or dramatically lightening the tone ASM2 style.
Yeah. This definitely earns him some respect from me. That he isn't above, and won't deny criticism. I do wonder how much Ben Affleck had to do with this decision though.

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Old 05-20-2014, 01:02 AM   #16
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

Just throwing this out there.... Was Jonah Nolan coming in for TDK a response to "criticism" of BB?

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Old 05-20-2014, 01:02 AM   #17
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

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I'm referring to these scenes




To me it looks silly and painfully CGI compared to other fight scenes in the movie.

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Old 05-20-2014, 01:05 AM   #18
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

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DA said something in the other thread before it closed that I wanted to respond to:

"Hiring Terrio can be interpreted as a response to MoS criticisms."

This is what I'm looking for when I talked about Snyder responding to the right criticisms. This is a great response to them. A number of complaints can fall under the "script" umbrella, so he's killing a few birds with one stone. This is an appropriate response instead of say... him cutting out all the major action scenes or dramatically lightening the tone ASM2 style.
That's a valid observation actually. I'll say this, if Snyder does take note of criticism and Terrio is a response to that then that actually says a lot about the man. Whether he actually delivers an improved film is yet to be determined, but I can't fault someone if they acknowledge errors and want to try to improve on them next time around.

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Old 05-20-2014, 01:07 AM   #19
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

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I'm referring to these scenes




To me it looks silly and painfully CGI compared to other fight scenes in the movie.
Yeah, that doesn't look so good. I wonder why gave it a pass to be in the film.

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Old 05-20-2014, 01:09 AM   #20
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

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I'm referring to these scenes




To me it looks silly and painfully CGI compared to other fight scenes in the movie.
Who is really going to see that in the movie theater though?

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Old 05-20-2014, 01:12 AM   #21
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

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Who is really going to see that in the movie theater though?
If they're not seeing anything then that's a problem.

Personally I had a hard time following the Zod fight.

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Old 05-20-2014, 01:13 AM   #22
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Who is really going to see that in the movie theater though?
I saw it at a theatre and didn't like it then.

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Old 05-20-2014, 01:14 AM   #23
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If they're not seeing anything then that's a problem.

Personally I had a hard time following the Zod fight.
How do you reconcile super beings fighting at incredible speeds then?

But nobody wants Zack to use slow motion? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It's not different from a DBZ aerial fight.

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Old 05-20-2014, 01:14 AM   #24
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

I didn't see anything in MOS' SFX that I couldn't notice in any other blockbuster which is SFX heavy. Spider-Man 2 has a ton of CGI you notice. BB has a very noticeable miniature Batmobile going over rooftops. MOS was no different.

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Old 05-20-2014, 01:17 AM   #25
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 55

Just going to add my two cents here. I've seen MOS 2 times on an IMAX screen, and I can certainly say that this fight scene was as good as the rest and was not hard to follow.

There's a fine line between something that looks too CGI and something that looks so unreal by human standards that it takes our minds time to accept it as real. MOS effects fall into the latter category since they deal with things we have not seen before or seen but at a time when CGI was in it's infancy (Matrix revolutions).

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