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Old 05-24-2014, 11:07 PM   #51
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

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Originally Posted by Rike View Post
They did reshoots. That's why they were able to cut it.
Which shows it must not have been working so much that they decided to fix it by spending money they didn't need to.

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Originally Posted by SAUspartan View Post
Exactly. I don't get how some people can form the opinion that if the scene was included it would have turned it from a great movie to a bad movie. lol.
No one said it would turn a the movie from good to bad. But it would have made a lesser film possibly. That is why they cut it.

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Originally Posted by SAUspartan View Post
Same here.

Tho my point is...right now nobody can make an educated thought either way cause we have not seen it.

What get's me is people's fallacy's that the movie was good so they obviously made the correct decision to cut? How is that logic.

Simon Kimberg has been quoted saying it's as good of scene as anything in the movie. So thats enough evidence for me to know it would not have been worse with it in the movie.

The decision seemed to be made for length and need reasons. The movie would work fine without it and therefore they made the decision to cut it. Nothing to do with quality.
We do know they went out of their way, spent money, to "fix" it. They did reshoots because it wasn't working. And you seem to miss the part where Kinberg said it was extraneous.

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Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Not having a plan b adds more drama. It gives Kitty more reason to continue working even though she was bleeding and growing weaker. It also showed how fragile their success in the plan was. If they could just sub her out, tension is lost.

Rogue wasn't necessary to the future storyline. Going out of their way to include her would have only made for mucking up the narrative. This was a tight movie, and it flows perfectly. We didn't need a detour that actually lessens the tension.


It would have been the classic case of doing something less effective, more complicated, with more screen time, just to have an extra character show up. The crew shows restraint, a rarity in films, and then people get mad for actually having the guts to do what was best for the film. I get wanting the character, but not one thing about this film indicates the Rogue stuff would have added anything other then runtime and a character.

The future narrative is simple, but extreme effective. It was on Kitty and Logan. Everyone else was irrelevant. They were depending on them, and everyone else was there to simply buy them the time they needed. It worked beautifully. Over-complicating that just to have another character reeks of fanboy logic imo.

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To play devil's advocate, it might have created more tension if Rogue was there. From Ms. Marvel and the comic books we know that if Rogue holds onto someone long enough she can keep their powers permanently. But in the movie they might not know that so there could be a tension of Rogue having to draw from Kitty's powers enough to keep Logan in the past, but not enough to cause Kitty's death so that Rogue could keep drawing her powers and keep the connection. There could also be problems of Rogue running out of Kitty's powers and Logan starting to return to the present until Rogue gets a recharge of power. Alternatively, if Rogue sucked all of the power out of Kitty so that she would be guaranteed to have the ability to keep Logan in the past, it could create either tension or reemphasize how dire everything is. At that point you would have a teammate killing/sacrificing another teammate to succeed in the mission which would be very dramatic.

I do think, not having seen an extended cut with the Rogue scenes included, that the right call was made, but I don't think having Rogue there would have eliminated the tension. I think it would have changed the type of tension but I think regardless of whether Rogue is there or not
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
having Kitty there, injured and probably dying, will create all sorts of tension
This all sounds like fluff, fan reasoning to get Rogue there, when all it would have done was pull the narrative away from what is important.

Kitty and her struggle is simple, but extremely effective. You understand it, sympathize with it, without needing more dialogue or scenes that pull us from what is important. The battle in the 70s.

We even got the injured Kitty/possibly dying tension, without Rogue. Not necessary in the least.

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Old 05-24-2014, 11:22 PM   #52
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

I feel like it was a slight missed opportunity not including Rogue in the future XMen. Just imagine one major action sequence where the sentinel ships are coming but Rogue briefly absorbs powers from the others and becomes a flying, steel-skinned, fire-ice-lightning throwing, energy absorbing WRECKING BALL. She takes down dozens of Sentinels but there's still too many, they swarm her like hornets and she dies. Movie continues as planned

Would have really underscored that no mutant, no matter how high powered, could possibly withstand the Sentinels in the future and Wolverine's mission is the endgame. I still got that message in the movie without Rogue but we can wish.

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Old 05-24-2014, 11:47 PM   #53
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

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Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker View Post

This all sounds like fluff, fan reasoning to get Rogue there, when all it would have done was pull the narrative away from what is important.

Kitty and her struggle is simple, but extremely effective. You understand it, sympathize with it, without needing more dialogue or scenes that pull us from what is important. The battle in the 70s.

We even got the injured Kitty/possibly dying tension, without Rogue. Not necessary in the least.
My point was not necessarily that Rogue needed to be there, because, as much as I love her and wish she was in the movie, I do agree that the movie was really good even without her. But my point, and original response, was that if Rogue was there it would not suddenly be a magical solution to the Kitty problem as there would still be tension and problem.

Also, I think there is a difference in tension between having Rogue, a teammate and friend kill a teammate to take her powers and keep Logan in the past than
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Kitty slowly bleeding to death because of injuries Logan accidentally gave her


So I agree Rogue wasn't necessary, I wish she would have been because I'm a fan, but the movie was great. I don't think having her appear would necessarily pull away from the narrative. The action sequence might have, but having Magneto and Xavier say they are going to get her and then return really would not disrupt the narrative nor lessen the tension. Regardless the way the chose to go worked really well, I enjoyed the movie and I think I'll get my Rogue fix when I get to see the deleted scenes, but I think that had they really wanted to include Rogue there were ways to do so that didn't take away from the narrative.

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Old 05-24-2014, 11:56 PM   #54
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

Which brings up the question. Did the Sentinels follow them back originally?

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Old 05-24-2014, 11:59 PM   #55
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

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Which brings up the question. Did the Sentinels follow them back originally?
It was said that there was originally a chase in the X-Jet with the Sentinels following them back, and that's how they found the monastery. We see remnants of that scene in the B-Roll footage when we see the X-Jet cockpit on the gimble and it takes a sharp dive down.

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Old 05-25-2014, 12:22 AM   #56
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

Hmmm so that's how the sentinels found them.

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Old 05-25-2014, 12:31 AM   #57
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

There is just as much evidence that the film would have been better with the Rogue scene then there is it would have been worse with Rogue in it.

Kimberg may have said it was Extraneous but he also said it was just as good as Everything in the film. Seriously, I read everything The Powers That Be or Word of God makes public. So no, i didn't miss anything Kimberg said.

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Old 05-25-2014, 12:38 AM   #58
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

I think there wouldve been more Magneto, more Prof X, more Iceman and more Sentinels if the sequence were kept but it wouldve made the film 2:30 to3:00 hours long, which was a no-go for the TPTB.

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Old 05-25-2014, 12:41 AM   #59
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

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I think there wouldve been more Magneto, more Prof X, more Iceman and more Sentinels if the sequence were kept but it wouldve made the film 2:30 to3:00 hours long, which was a no-go for the TPTB.
It doesn't make for a better movie though, it would have been better for us fans, but it just throws more plotlines and more things happening at the general audience than needed. That's where the money is, and that's the bottom line in the film industry.

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Old 05-25-2014, 12:51 AM   #60
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

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It doesn't make for a better movie though, it would have been better for us fans, but it just throws more plotlines and more things happening at the general audience than needed. That's where the money is, and that's the bottom line in the film industry.
Well we dont know if it would make a better movie or not. But it would hav e resolved certain issues like the OT cast not getting enough time, etc.

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Old 05-25-2014, 12:56 AM   #61
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

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Same here.
Simon Kimberg has been quoted saying it's as good of scene as anything in the movie. So thats enough evidence for me to know it would not have been worse with it in the movie.

The decision seemed to be made for length and need reasons. The movie would work fine without it and therefore they made the decision to cut it. Nothing to do with quality.
The sequence with Rogue may have been as good as anything else in the film, but it still could have impacted the quality of the film if it interrupted the flow of the film or didn't fit (which are the reasons it was cut). I'm not sure what the "need" reason you are referring to but perhaps it has something to do with wanting to create a tight narrative with no extraneous subplots. Kinberg himself referred to Rogue as the "MacGuffin" in that sequence (essentially meaning that he considered her to be of no importance to the plot).

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Old 05-25-2014, 12:59 AM   #62
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

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Well we dont know if it would make a better movie or not. But it would hav e resolved certain issues like the OT cast not getting enough time, etc.
They didn't get more screentime because they weren't where the main plot of the film was happening. The movie itself was a focus on the past because that was where the story centered, everything else was just spectacle.

The movie was about avoiding Trask's death and Mystiques capture as a result, and that in turn would avert the dystopian future. In the middle of all of that, you want them to throw in a side mission that involves them leaving the center of all of that story and going on essentially a "quick run to the store" and run right back. No. In a movie that was just made coherent enough and had super tight storytelling which is what a movie of this scale needs, that kind of subplot isn't going to make it better, at all. That's not what critics want, that's not what works for general audiences, and that came to their attention during their first edit.

They had to make it safe for audiences without drowning them in so many storylines, especially after just starting to warm the public back up to this franchise with The Wolverine.

Having said all this, don't get me wrong, I really want to see this scene, today if I could, because it sounds incredible and it would be everything I could possibly want out of those characters.

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Old 05-25-2014, 01:01 AM   #63
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

If Rogue's scenes involved a prison break it could have been an opportunity to build the future a bit more. An opportunity to see how the mutants who aren't the X-men are living. But as the movie stands, the opening scene does the job adequately.

Also, could someone point me to a description of these scenes?

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Old 05-25-2014, 01:05 AM   #64
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

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If Rogue's scenes involved a prison break it could have been an opportunity to build the future a bit more. An opportunity to see how the mutants who aren't the X-men are living. But as the movie stands, the opening scene does the job adequately.

Also, could someone point me to a description of these scenes?
It's been said that she is the only prisoner in this facility (the old X-Mansion) as she was the original reason the Sentinels got their abilities (and she gained some from the experimentation as well).

The whole Mystique gave them their abilities part were part of reshoots with the FC crew (hence why it was only explained in voiceover for the future scenes).

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Old 05-25-2014, 01:07 AM   #65
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

Interesting... wow that really changes the movie.

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Old 05-25-2014, 01:10 AM   #66
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

The whole Mystique's blood storyline were part of reshoots because originally she was supposed to come back to the mansion with them, logan falls in and out of the future again, they go get Rogue, and Rogue puts him back. That's where Logan was supposed to call Raven a cold hearted b****, Beast and Raven have that moment on the floor, where Raven has those tears, and Logan pops out of bed and says Rogue's name in the past, then Mystique escapes the mansion. Maybe not in that order, but we don't know that yet. We only know that these were among the cut scenes absed on what we have seen in trailers/b-roll.


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Old 05-25-2014, 01:11 AM   #67
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

And Iceman was supposed to die during the rescue.

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Old 05-25-2014, 01:15 AM   #68
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

I personally wanted to see the scene because i love the idea of the X-Mansion in a ruined state showing how bad this future really is and things coming full circle for Rogue and Magneto. Magneto needing to save her to save the world is coming a long way from X1 and could have played out as him redeeming himself for what he did to her.

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Old 05-25-2014, 01:20 AM   #69
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

Ugh you guys are really convincing me of the awesomeness of this idea.

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Old 05-25-2014, 01:24 AM   #70
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

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Ugh you guys are really convincing me of the awesomeness of this idea.
It was an awesome idea, and the more I think of how awesome it would have been to see those things, the more that I agree with the filmmakers that it was one appendage too many for the movie we got. I love what they delivered for us. I just want to see the scene in it's full glory one day.

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Old 05-25-2014, 08:23 AM   #71
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

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There is just as much evidence that the film would have been better with the Rogue scene then there is it would have been worse with Rogue in it.

Kimberg may have said it was Extraneous but he also said it was just as good as Everything in the film. Seriously, I read everything The Powers That Be or Word of God makes public. So no, i didn't miss anything Kimberg said.
What evidence do you have that adding an extraneous scene would have made the movie better? You all are cracking me up about how you are willing to take a a very good tight movie and potentially sabotage it because you want to see Paquin as Rogue. I am sure they thought long and hard about this and had to go to the studio heads and explain why they were throwing away millions of dollars and spending millions more and dropping a major character. You have not even seen the footage and want it in regardless, but the people who have actually seen it say it is extraneous are wrong. Wow!

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Old 05-25-2014, 08:47 AM   #72
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

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The whole Mystique's blood storyline were part of reshoots because originally she was supposed to come back to the mansion with them, logan falls in and out of the future again, they go get Rogue, and Rogue puts him back. That's where Logan was supposed to call Raven a cold hearted b****, Beast and Raven have that moment on the floor, where Raven has those tears, and Logan pops out of bed and says Rogue's name in the past, then Mystique escapes the mansion. Maybe not in that order, but we don't know that yet. We only know that these were among the cut scenes absed on what we have seen in trailers/b-roll.
There might have been some reshoots or edited out scenes but the Mystique thing still would have been a part of the main film plot. The sentinels would have had their ability to shape shift from her DNA. The Rogue stuff would have been the gaining other mutants powers. So the whole Mystique plot with Trask needing her dna was still as important, they just cut all the rogue stuff and made Mystique the central reason for the future sentinels existance. So I don't think the main reshoots were just due to add the extra stuff in about Mystique's DNA because it still would have been needed for the future sentinels.

I do think that a reshoot with Anna could have been done, even seeing her imprisoned and tortured. Even if it was a little bit saying they were able to use her dna to give sentinels the ability to replicate other mutants powers. And then show her killed afterwards. That could have been an easy way to still include Rogue and Anna with a reason behind it, instead of the subplot that didn't flow in the end.

Overall the subplot still could have been used. I do think the movie flowed very well and I didn't think where is Rogue during. But showing her being the only prisoner and using her dna seems very important to me. I honestly think it all comes down to the time. Fox wanted the film shorter and they had to cut that scene because it is a scene that could be cut out sadly and reshot around. But to be honest there were two scenes in the past I felt weren't needed. The Mystique rescue Vietnam sequence. While cool didn't really service the plot in anyway other than showing a bunch of mutants with Stryker. Through voicover and pictures we still saw that mutants were being experimented on. The other scene while it was really cool was Magneto retreiving his helmet. It was a great scene and yes does show where he get's his helmet from but really wasn't necessary. Just like his outfit he could have easily had that helmet anywhere and him showing up wearing it wouldn't have been an issue.

That scene wasn't even in the script and was something Bryan decided to shoot really last minute. So yeah. Cutting out those two scenes you can easily have fit a few extra minutes in. To me seems like Fox wanted more past because it featured Michael and Jennifer and Anna was the casualty

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Old 05-25-2014, 10:50 AM   #73
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

I really want them to edit back in for an alternate cut. There's no harm done on their part and it'll make everyone happy and we can all stop being upset. Since everything is altered anyway, it doesn't matter which version would be canon in the end of the day.

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Old 05-25-2014, 10:54 AM   #74
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

Hopefully there will be expanded cut which allowes for rogue sub-plot back In.

DOFP IS last time we will see"Original timeline" and could be end of the OT cast expect for hugh jackman so It would be nice to give fans of X-Men and X2 something special.

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Old 05-25-2014, 10:56 AM   #75
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Default Re: Girl gone ROGUE Thread (ANNA PAQUIN's BACK..FALSE ALARM SHE'S BEEN CUT) - Pa

Well, there was definitely a need for an action sequence in the middle of the film. There was a long talky/plotty part in the middle, and it could have done with something to pep it up a bit. It's the only issue I have with the film after the second viewing.

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