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Old 05-24-2014, 07:00 PM   #26
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:02 PM   #27
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Lmfao!

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Old 05-24-2014, 07:20 PM   #28
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:41 PM   #29
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Hahahahah great

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Old 05-24-2014, 08:41 PM   #30
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Other transforming mutants?
You don't need a transforming mutant to hijack a helicopter. And any attractive woman could seduce the security guard. As for the scene where Mystique breaks into Stryker's offices, any transporting mutant could have done the job. Or heck, Quicksilver!

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I think it's just easier and makes more sense to assume that all the events of the first trilogy + the two Wolverine movies never happened in the newly formed timeline.
It's easier but the ending where Wolverine is reunited with the original cast is a giant hint that not everything was retconned. It's Hank's pebbles in the water theory. Some things are abound to happen.

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Old 05-24-2014, 09:23 PM   #31
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Does Wolvie even have adamantium claws? At the end, that was Mystique acquiring Wolvie's body, not Stryker, which means he would not experiment on him directly afterwards. Is this correct?
I thought the professor mentioning that he taught history (at the end, in the new timeline) was a hint, that he never went through the experiments, never lost his memory
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It's possible, I suppose. But does that mean that his memory remains intact?
actually if you think about, at this point his only real memories are of those few days he spent in the 70's(or however long it was), he had no memories of his past before, the experiments, an everything that happen since then has been changed... so he really didn't know of anything for sure (it was up to the professor to fill him in on what happened in between)

although, he did have that line "I've seen a lot of wars..." (or something like that) which makes me think he might have gotten back some of his memories (even in "the wolverine" he did have a few flashbacks of the wars) so, who knows


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Old 05-24-2014, 10:08 PM   #32
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Default Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?

Here's a simple diagram of how the X-Verse timeline works:
Timeline 'A'
Origins: Wolverine Prologue > First Class > DoFP prelude stuff > Origins: Wolverine > X-Men > X2 > The Last Stand > The Wolverine

Timeline 'B'
Origins: Wolverine Prologue > First Class > DoFP > Apocalypse

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Old 05-24-2014, 11:11 PM   #33
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I'd say that Wolverine never gets the adamantium, but he's still a loner, perhaps something else happens that makes him lose his memory. He still joins the X - Men, this time because Xavier recruits him to deal with Magneto and his brotherhood (not including Mystique) so X1 still happens albeit slightly differently. X2-3 are gone. The Wolverine is still mostly in continuity but instead of Yukio looking all over through the canadian wilds, she just goes to the X-mansion because Wolverines a member. The events would still happen but without the Jean sub-plot.

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Old 05-24-2014, 11:25 PM   #34
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Mystique in the OT doesn't make sense if she was supposedly captured after killing Trask in the 70s and experimented on since for Sentinel research.

The mutant phenomenon being a fairly recent thing in the OT doesn't jive with the very public and televised shenanigans that occurred in the 70s.

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Old 05-24-2014, 11:32 PM   #35
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Hmm I do wonder if The Wolverine still happened now? Even though it was a stand alone, a good deal of it was Wolverine dealing with the fallout over the death of Jean.

That kinda sucks because I really liked the Wolverine.

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Old 05-24-2014, 11:34 PM   #36
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Mystique in the OT doesn't make sense if she was supposedly captured after killing Trask in the 70s and experimented on since for Sentinel research.

The mutant phenomenon being a fairly recent thing in the OT doesn't jive with the very public and televised shenanigans that occurred in the 70s.
How does it not make sense? It's not like she was killed.

It definitely was not a recent phenomenon in the OT.

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Old 05-24-2014, 11:39 PM   #37
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Default Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?

I think she escaped or maybe even Magneto breaking her out originally. Things started to really to change once Wolverine went to visit Xavier so that's when things start to change.

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Old 05-25-2014, 12:10 AM   #38
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How does it not make sense? It's not like she was killed.

It definitely was not a recent phenomenon in the OT.
Maybe I misunderstood that part, but what I got from the movie was that she was dead in the timeline of the bad future. It doesn't make sense she could have survived the experimentation given the fate of their other subjects, and Trask made it clear that they planned to harvest every bit of Mystique they could to effectively research her ability for the Sentinels' adaptive abilities.

It was certainly treated as being a recent phenomenon in X-Men. Senate hearings on the subject appeared to be fairly new, and it was even considered to be just a potential add on to the Ellis Island summit rather than a formal part of the proceedings.

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Old 05-25-2014, 12:14 AM   #39
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Old 05-25-2014, 12:15 AM   #40
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Where are all those people from a year ago who were swearing up and down there wouldn't be any retcons, no alternate timelines, if you think they'd invalidate the movies like that you're stupid, etc? Funny! Maybe I'll look some of those posts up later.
pleaaaaase look them up.

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Old 05-25-2014, 03:37 AM   #41
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Hmm I do wonder if The Wolverine still happened now? Even though it was a stand alone, a good deal of it was Wolverine dealing with the fallout over the death of Jean.

That kinda sucks because I really liked the Wolverine.
As someone said, there are good arguments that most events of "The Wolverine" still happened.

The timeline was altered in 1973. Wolverine saved Yashida in 1945, so this event wasn't erased. So we can assume that even in the "corrected" timeline Yashida will send Yukio to find Wolverine and bring him to Japan. Of course, it could be that in the new timeline Logan doesn't agree to come, but I don't think that's very likely.

So "The Wolverine" still happens, the only thing that is different is that Logan isn't tormented by hallucinations of Jean. Oh, and of course the post credit scene won't happen.

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Old 05-25-2014, 03:40 AM   #42
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Yup, some things still have happen, like Rogue's white streak.
THAT.

I don't know if they will explain the changes in the new timeline. But hopefully one day they will, like explaining it using a viral site?

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Old 05-25-2014, 03:42 AM   #43
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If they threw in a Yukio cameo at the end I would have been much happier knowing that still exists because a world without The Wolverine is a world I'm not ready for just yet.

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Old 05-25-2014, 03:45 AM   #44
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Maybe I misunderstood that part, but what I got from the movie was that she was dead in the timeline of the bad future. It doesn't make sense she could have survived the experimentation given the fate of their other subjects, and Trask made it clear that they planned to harvest every bit of Mystique they could to effectively research her ability for the Sentinels' adaptive abilities.
Hmm, yes, you are correct: You completely misunderstood that part.

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It was certainly treated as being a recent phenomenon in X-Men. Senate hearings on the subject appeared to be fairly new, and it was even considered to be just a potential add on to the Ellis Island summit rather than a formal part of the proceedings.
No it wasn't, not even remotely.

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Old 05-25-2014, 03:54 AM   #45
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She wasn't dead when Trask captured her in the old timeline. The film never said that. Just said she was captured and experimented on.

What we can infer from this new info to line up with the way things were is that somehow she escaped and because of what happened to her, that is the reason she was the cold blooded assassin in the original trilogy.

Makes complete sense.

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Old 05-25-2014, 04:09 AM   #46
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Hmm, yes, you are correct: You completely misunderstood that part.
A rewatch should confirm it. It doesn't make sense that Mystique could've survived the experiments when every subject thus far had died from them, and it's especially damning in her case since there is a mandate to harvest every bit of her for their Sentinel research.

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No it wasn't, not even remotely.
It certainly was. To further add to the Senate hearings bit, Senator Kelly's testimony seems to imply that the mutant phenomenon is fairly recent, not something that should've been known for decades.

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Old 05-25-2014, 04:14 AM   #47
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It certainly was. To further add to the Senate hearings bit, Senator Kelly's testimony seems to imply that the mutant phenomenon is fairly recent, not something that should've been known for decades.
Again, this is a FIRST CLASS problem. That film really messed with continuity more than any film in the series.

Problem is, they really couldn't retcon that film because it was the start of the rebuilding of the franchise.

But yes, Kelly's testimony in the first film along with Jean's basically inferred that the mutant phenomenon was a fairly recent discovery to the world.

If you go by FIRST CLASS and now this film, it was almost buried but the Paris incident really changed that.

I love FIRST CLASS so much but hate it at the same time. It's the film that causes all the headaches and yet gives us a splendid young cast. Ugh.

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Old 05-25-2014, 04:36 AM   #48
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She wasn't dead when Trask captured her in the old timeline. The film never said that. Just said she was captured and experimented on.

What we can infer from this new info to line up with the way things were is that somehow she escaped and because of what happened to her, that is the reason she was the cold blooded assassin in the original trilogy.

Makes complete sense.
But does it make complete sense that Mystique never told Magneto about it? No attempt by the Brotherhood to stop the Sentinel project in the 80's oder 90's?

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Old 05-25-2014, 04:44 AM   #49
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I'm assuming that this film alone pretty much rectonned (unofficially) "X-Men Origins" entirely from the franchise.

I mean Wolverine was supposed to be locked up in some prison with Victor during near the end of the Vietnam war, with Stryker recruiting him then...but that wasn't the case at all. Wolverine was in New York, with Victor nowhere to be around him and they only used footage of Stryker from X2.

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Old 05-25-2014, 04:58 AM   #50
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A rewatch should confirm it. It doesn't make sense that Mystique could've survived the experiments when every subject thus far had died from them, and it's especially damning in her case since there is a mandate to harvest every bit of her for their Sentinel research.
lol wut? She was running around doing stuff in X-Men 1, X2, X-Men 3. She obviously survived.

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It certainly was. To further add to the Senate hearings bit, Senator Kelly's testimony seems to imply that the mutant phenomenon is fairly recent, not something that should've been known for decades.
Nope. Out of interest, any quotes in particular that make you think that? The last 30 years would be quite "recent" in my opinion anyway.

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