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Old 05-30-2014, 03:30 PM   #76
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

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The design of the Weapon X facility is completely different.

The lighting is very different.

How Wolverine reacts to seeing his claws for the first time is completely different.

In X2, he's stumbling down the hall covered in blood and escapes out a door into an open field whereas in Origins he runs out the facility with no blood and leaps off of a waterfall.

In X2, it's made clear that he loses his memories DURING the procedure, hence why he's so shocked/horrified by his claws initially. In Origins, he doesn't lose his memories until much later with the astoundingly stupid Adamantium bullet idea.

Seriously, you'd have thought that the people who made Origins would have at least tried to make things line up at least a little bit, but they didn't.
Most of those are fairly inconsequential.I'm saying there are no real substantive differences beyond aesthetics.

The biggest difference that you mentioned is Logan seemingly losing his memory at the time.I think that was at a point when they had originally conceived of Wolverine getting his claws from the procedure.(Stryker basically tells him as much in X2) TBH,I'd have preferred it to bone claws,but having Wolvie in a film without claws probably wasn't gonna fly,so they became a necessary evil.

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Old 05-30-2014, 04:40 PM   #77
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

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I think most of X1still exists as Rogue had her white streak. X2...not sure about yet.
I think that was just because it is a recognizable character trait. Maybe X1 still happened, but Singer isn't bound to it or anything.

Now they did still happen with regards to Wolverine's character development, since he still lived through it.

Origins on the other hand already didn't seem to take place even before the timeline got changed.

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Old 05-30-2014, 04:56 PM   #78
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

I think it's best to play fast and loose with the details of the new timeline, but we can assume that the broad strokes could still have happened. Rogue's white streak implies the Liberty Island incident happened in some form, but we don't really need to know the specifics.

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Seriously, you'd have thought that the people who made Origins would have at least tried to make things line up at least a little bit, but they didn't.
If I recall, the dog-tags don't even match lol

Origins is so utterly terrible that Lauren Schuler Donner has explicitly said forget about it (and X3). DOFP nuked 5 out of 6 previous movies just to cleanse the palette.

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Old 05-30-2014, 05:50 PM   #79
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

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Most of those are fairly inconsequential.I'm saying there are no real substantive differences beyond aesthetics.

The biggest difference that you mentioned is Logan seemingly losing his memory at the time.I think that was at a point when they had originally conceived of Wolverine getting his claws from the procedure.(Stryker basically tells him as much in X2) TBH,I'd have preferred it to bone claws,but having Wolvie in a film without claws probably wasn't gonna fly,so they became a necessary evil.
DOFP thinks otherwise. He has bone claws. So that would go in conflict with X2 anyway... right?!

We can assume he was horrorified by the adamantium claws.

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Old 05-30-2014, 06:08 PM   #80
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

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DOFP thinks otherwise. He has bone claws. So that would go in conflict with X2 anyway... right?!
Again one of the many inconsistencies Origins added in relation to previously established events. I actually would have preferred they'd have given him the claws in the procedure. But comic retcons did add his bone claws, so it's not too unforgivable. But yeah, Stryker states explicitly "You were already an animal, I just gave you claws". Sure he could have meant the Adamantium claws OVER his bone ones to make them more tough, but that's even a stretch. I was FAR more enthralled with what little about Wolverine's past we got from X2, than Origins flat out going through it step by step.

In regards to the Alkali Lake structure in Origins. Why change a good thing? X2's set was awesome. All they literally had to do was perhaps clean it up abit to make it look fresher. But no. They opted for their own version that didn't link up. Sure the tank was there. That's all they really needed right? Ugh. THEN they go COMPLETELY against how he recalls exiting the base via the back door in X2. It's in that memory he briefly remembers that allows him to save himself and the others from the flooding base. But in Origins, shocker, it's a cliff with a waterfall that he just has to free fall from. Was there any reason not to link these up? Except perhaps creative stubbornness?

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Old 05-30-2014, 07:37 PM   #81
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

The way Fox has treated the X-Men consistency is horrific. I really hope they learned their lesson, and the sequels to DOFP will be more careful.

I doubt it, though.

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Old 05-30-2014, 09:25 PM   #82
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

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Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP

Why? The movies haven't.



Seriously though, it is a bad movie, and it is best to not think about these sort of things.

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Old 05-31-2014, 03:05 AM   #83
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

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Why did Sabretooth not recognize Wolverine in X1? We see in Origins that not only did they know each other, they were brothers. In X1, Sabretooth acted like he didn't know Wolverine.
The fact that Sabretooth stole Wolverine's dog tags and wore them as a souvenir throughout X1 indicates that Sabretooth DID recognize Wolverine. Another indication is that we learn later on that Sabretooth was suppose to capture Rogue but he decides to attack Wolverine first as if he had some secret vendetta against him.

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In regards to the Alkali Lake structure in Origins. Why change a good thing? X2's set was awesome. All they literally had to do was perhaps clean it up abit to make it look fresher. But no. They opted for their own version that didn't link up. Sure the tank was there. That's all they really needed right? Ugh. THEN they go COMPLETELY against how he recalls exiting the base via the back door in X2. It's in that memory he briefly remembers that allows him to save himself and the others from a flooding base. But in Origins, shocker, it's a cliff with a waterfall that he just has to free fall from. Was there any reason not to link these up? Except perhaps created stubbornness?
Just because the Alkali Lake facility in Origins is different that the one in X2, it doesn't mean that Origins messed up the continuity of the X-trilogy. I mean, nobody questions how the X-mansion in First Class/Days of Future Past is different that the one in the X-trilogy but that isn't messing up the continuity. Besides, Wolverine's mind is too fragmented for him to remember the exact details of the weapon x experiment.

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-There are massive continuity issues with the previous films.
I disagree. There weren't any issues with the continuity until First Class came along and since Days of Future Past have now erased the events of the previous films (except First Class), how does Wolverine still end up joining the X-Men? The whole point of him doing so is because he wanted Professor X to help him regain the memories that he lost due to the weapon x experiment. Now that the experiment is wiped out of existence, Wolverine no longer has metal claws and skeleton nor does he have amnesia so there's no reason for him to be working with Xavier or the X-men now. After all, Wolverine did tell Xavier to "go eff himself" when they first met.

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Old 05-31-2014, 03:12 AM   #84
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

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how does Wolverine still end up joining the X-Men? The whole point of him doing so is because he wanted Professor X to help him regain the memories that he lost due to the weapon x experiment. Now that the experiment is wiped out of existence, Wolverine no longer has metal claws and skeleton nor does he have amnesia so there's no reason for him to be working with Xavier or the X-men now. After all, Wolverine did tell Xavier to "go eff himself" when they first met.
They can go anywhere they want now that Mystique saved him. He also might want to know about what the last days meant which he doesn't remember and what was his role in it. Him just not caring about anything at that point and going back to mob jobs/war would be more silly.

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Old 05-31-2014, 07:09 AM   #85
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

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Again one of the many inconsistencies Origins added in relation to previously established events. I actually would have preferred they'd have given him the claws in the procedure. But comic retcons did add his bone claws, so it's not too unforgivable. But yeah, Stryker states explicitly "You were already an animal, I just gave you claws". Sure he could have meant the Adamantium claws OVER his bone ones to make them more tough, but that's even a stretch. I was FAR more enthralled with what little about Wolverine's past we got from X2, than Origins flat out going through it step by step.

In regards to the Alkali Lake structure in Origins. Why change a good thing? X2's set was awesome. All they literally had to do was perhaps clean it up abit to make it look fresher. But no. They opted for their own version that didn't link up. Sure the tank was there. That's all they really needed right? Ugh. THEN they go COMPLETELY against how he recalls exiting the base via the back door in X2. It's in that memory he briefly remembers that allows him to save himself and the others from the flooding base. But in Origins, shocker, it's a cliff with a waterfall that he just has to free fall from. Was there any reason not to link these up? Except perhaps creative stubbornness?
His memories were flawed in X2. He was "rearranging" them.
We Humans do that constantly.

Said that, sorry but DOFP also aknowledged the bone claws in conjunction with Origins.

There's nothing, nothing, nothing in DOFP that utterly states Origins is not continuity. It is. It belongs to the Timeline Prime canon.

You can ignore it, yes you can do, but then again: IT'S YOU. It's your personal vision, which is personal. It's not the official vision. They inserted flashback bits of Origins in DOFP, among the other things.

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Old 05-31-2014, 09:29 AM   #86
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

I love the "his memories were flawed" bit. It's so infantile people might actually believe it

DOFP acknowledged the bone claws because Origins added it before DOFP ever came out, thus forcing them to follow suit.

Nobody is saying Origins is not canon or ignoring it. Everyone's just saying it's crap canon that never should have been made and has messed with the timeline.
If I could ignore it I would but it's a theatrical X-Men release. More like a burden to the franchise.

You need to face facts about this film you're gonna defend until it's last breath. Don't get too obsessed with your "timeline stigma's" or "timeline prime's". It's like you're doing a mathematical equation and you're forcing things to add up when they don't.

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Old 05-31-2014, 11:58 AM   #87
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

Pretty happy DOFP wiped out a few X films. They weren't that great anyway.

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Old 05-31-2014, 12:09 PM   #88
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

Thats what I love about it. So far it's a win win. Some films are gone but are still there in order for this movie to happen. But now they're not there and they can even make it better!

It's amazing how much he fixed with one move!

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Old 05-31-2014, 02:01 PM   #89
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

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I love the "his memories were flawed" bit. It's so infantile people might actually believe it
The guy is an amnesiac.You think his memory is all that trust worthy? Whatever.


I still think First Class is the most problematic of the films for continuity.Origins more or less can still work within the frame work of the films,but in FC Moira is a CIA Agent in the 60's,while in the present day,a somewhat younger doctor.You can't have Havok as Scott's brother.Banshee is dead without fathering siren or his relationship with Moira etc.Even with the clean slate,FC already fouled up certain thing in continuity that cannot be repaired now.

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Old 05-31-2014, 02:06 PM   #90
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

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The guy is an amnesiac.You think his memory is all that trust worthy? Whatever.


I still think First Class is the most problematic of the films for continuity.Origins more or less can still work within the frame work of the films,but in FC Moira is a CIA Agent in the 60's,while in the present day,a somewhat younger doctor.You can't have Havok as Scott's brother.Banshee is dead without fathering siren or his relationship with Moira etc.Even with the clean slate,FC already fouled up certain thing in continuity that cannot be repaired now.
How did they foul up storylines they never used? Banshee was never seen with Moira, nor acknowledged as Siren's father. Havok has not been established as Scott's brother, and I am thinking he wasn't killed off by this point so he can be Scott's father instead. I don't think you can count these against FC when they were not established dynamics in the first place.

The only major issue is Moira, but I "guess" she couyld have quit the CIA and went into science after that? Also, the fact Charles wasn't 17 when he met Magneto. Everything else can offer some explanation.

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Old 05-31-2014, 02:09 PM   #91
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

The implication is that somehow Origins caused all kinds of problems in continuity,but the series still can't hew as close to the source material anyway because of FC.

Emma Frost is another character that's gone by the wayside too.

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Old 05-31-2014, 02:15 PM   #92
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The guy is an amnesiac.You think his memory is all that trust worthy? Whatever.
That would make perfect sense if we only saw Wolverine's memories of the procedure and room in X2, but no, we saw the full spectrum of the Alkali Lake base in the present. He walked around it, had a fight in it. It was gritty. It was used. His claw marks were all over it. It was nothing like what was shown in Origins.

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Old 05-31-2014, 02:15 PM   #93
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

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The implication is that somehow Origins caused all kinds of problems in continuity,but the series still can't hew as close to the source material anyway because of FC.

Emma Frost is another character that's gone by the wayside too.
For me the problem isn't differences in the adaption. Fact is, Origins just didn't flow with the continuity as established within the X-Men series former. FC has a few, yes. As noted Moira and Charles's age are the ones you can't defend. But a few common ones can be explained:

-Magneto could have built cerebro at the mansion off-screen with Charles and Hank. Yes, he didn't make the CIA cerebro, but who says he didn't help build the mansion one? Nothing.

-The Soviets made the helmet in FC. But, who says Magneto didn't design a new helmet later? Nothing.

I don't care about adaptational changes, especially if they work. In FC, the changes they make work. But, Origins made poor decisions, and the entire Weapon X escape doesn't mesh with what X2 showed us. That is a problem within the film series's continuity. THAT is my larger problem with Origins (on top of it just being absolute garbage). Banshee not being Siren's dad and Havok being Scott's father instead are changes I can deal with, especially if they use that in Apocalypse and the movie is good.

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Old 05-31-2014, 02:20 PM   #94
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

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That would make perfect sense if we only saw Wolverine's memories of the procedure and room in X2, but no, we saw the full spectrum of the Alkali Lake base in the present. He walked around it, had a fight in it. It was gritty. It was used. His claw marks were all over it. It was nothing like what was shown in Origins.
Well,again you have to take the rating into consideration.You can do a quick flashback of a bloody naked guy,with the implication of a huge body count in a PG-13 film.The actual scene,however?Not so much.

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Old 05-31-2014, 02:31 PM   #95
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

Given that we're told we can forget X3 and Origins now, I wonder if they'll stop selling DVDs of them? Presumably they won't be in a huge 'complete saga' box set when DoFP is released on DVD?

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Old 05-31-2014, 02:41 PM   #96
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It depends. They've sort of tried to distance themselves from those movie already. Heck even Hugh Jackman didn't bring up Origins much when he was promoting The Wolverine.

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Old 05-31-2014, 02:43 PM   #97
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They still exist in the film series, and in the universe they're set they did still happen, but now only Wolverine recalls the events after they were overwritten. So of course they're still going to sell the movies.

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Old 05-31-2014, 02:45 PM   #98
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They'd be stupid not to. It's sort of like the Star Wars PT situation. They'll still be sold and they'll technically still be part of the series. But that doesn't mean that Disney will focus on them, no they'll focus on the movies that most people actually like. Fox will likely do the same thing.

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Old 05-31-2014, 03:22 PM   #99
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

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DOFP thinks otherwise. He has bone claws. So that would go in conflict with X2 anyway... right?!

We can assume he was horrorified by the adamantium claws.
He might as well have not had them. Considerin he did not do anything useful with them.

Imagine that? Wolverine waking back in the past, the bodyguards come, Wolverine tightens his knuckle to the response of...nothing. Now that would be a true middle finger to origins.

It would be hilarious though if some fans still defended Origin's continuity by saying, "but what if Logan simply removed his claws....for some reason right before he went to sleep!".

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Old 05-31-2014, 03:57 PM   #100
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Default Re: Connecting XMO: Wolverine to DOFP - my thoughts

Having bone claws does not tie into Origins at all, it ties into comic Wolverine.

His bones were covered with adamantium, claws included; they didn't just throw in some claws for him to use.

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