The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > X-Men > X-Men: Apocalypse

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-28-2014, 01:59 PM   #1
Super Jim
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,000
Default Wolverine - The Horseman Death

So, in looking over the different storylines associated with Apocalypse there's really only one or two that would make sense for this X-Men Universe.

The first is The Age of Apocalypse, but with what we now know post DOFP I think it's safe to say we're not going to get this, and that's too bad.

Yes, this would have been "just one more" timeline story, but it's arguably one of the best storylines in the history of the X-Men and provides the ability to take known "good" mutants and put them on the wrong side, as well as taking known "bad" mutants and making them part of the heroes.

The fact that the Apocalypse movie is suppoed to be in the 80's, and the fact that we saw a glimpse of the future (2023) in the Wolvie wake-up scene, makes this story extremely unlikely.

The next is the Cable & Stryfe storyline where Apocolypse has his Riders abduct Nathan Summers (the son of Scott & Madelyne Pryor). This is the story where Apocalypse infects Nathan with the techno-organic virus, forcing his parents to send their baby to the future. In the future the Askani create a clone of Nathan, Apocalypse mistakes the clone for Nathan, tries to transfer his consciousness into the clone, and is then defeated by Nathan. Nathan grows up to become Cable and the clone grows up to become the terrorist Stryfe.

Again, good story and would give us Cable (setting up X-Force), but this is more time travel and it's kind of hard to do the baby of Scott in the 80's, so this is a no go. This also takes away the X-Cutioner's Song since Stryfe is integral to it.

Next is The Twelve storyline. Again, a very good story where Apocalypse tries to use the energy of those mutants listed in a prophecy to become an effective god. He plans to use Nate Grey as a host and is defeated by Scott and Jean, etc.

Obviously the concept of Nate won't work, and really Scott and jean won;t as well since it was Nate they were trying to save, but the general storyline of Apocalypse using psychics (and other mutants) to try to become godlike might make sense. But without the Summers/Grey emotional arc I'm not convinced it's the best option.

The Four Horsemen.

This is actually the one I think they go with.

The storyline is actually a bit basic and focuses on Apocalypse recruiting mutants to be his Horsemen and him planning on destroying New York. The main emotional arc is based around Angel, who had previously lost his wings and having been saved by Apocalypse is altered to become Archangel, his Horseman Death.

So first, I can't see Angel being used. Since he was part of the X3 debacle, and this movie is supposed to be in the 80's, well looks like Angel won't, unfortunately, become Archangel.

But, that doesn't mean that the general storyline is unusable.

Look at the basis of what this story is...

1. The ultimate mutant, born in ancient Egypt, who believes in survival of the fittest, tries to destroy New York (or the world).

Ok, this would give plenty of cause for the X-Men to fight. Shoot, it could even be expanded to trying to destroy/take over the world if they want.

2. It gives multiple baddies in the four Horsemen, along with Apocalypse. The Horseman are as follows:

Death, Famine, War & Pestilence.

3. It has one of the loved X-Men altered into the Horseman Death. In this case it can't be Angel, so which mutant, of those in the First Class timeline (70s-80s) would be the best choice?

Actually, let's list the options:

- Beast
- Erik
- Charles
- Mystique
- Quicksilver
- Havok
- Toad
- Ink

And...

- Wolverine

Of all of these, I believe Wolverine makes the most sense. In fact, he's been the Horseman Death before, so it's somewhat per canon.

Now, is Hugh Jackman done? My guess is not so much, especially if they show him the money.

One draw to this is that we've never seen Wolverine as the bad guy. We've never seen the other X-Men have to fight against him. And I believe there is a draw to that idea...

Now, here's another connection...

Mystique was proven to be all about saving the mutants. And even though she didn't kill Trask that doesn't mean she wouldn't still care about the fate of her fellow mutants.

Now Apocalypse could be thought of as someone who is on the side of the mutants, and as such I could see her siding with him. Especially if she was shown that the choice is either the destruction of her beloved brethren, or serving Apocalypse and saving mutantkind.

I could see her ending up serving as an agent for Apocalypse, and possibly she is already serving in this capacity during DOFP.

Is it just possible that Mystique saved Wolverine at the end of DOFP so he can become the Horseman Death?

I think the answer is yes!






Last edited by Super Jim; 07-08-2014 at 11:34 AM.
Super Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 02:58 PM   #2
DACrowe
Side-Kick
 
DACrowe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 26,006
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

In short, I agree with the overall thought process.

Angel is from the wrong timeline now, and Gambit will not be made the Horseman Death, because he has not been introduced (at least in a non-XOW context or with Channing Tatum playing him), so the transformation will mean nothing.

However, Logan becoming a Horseman, as well as possibly Magneto, would be very interesting. It would allow Jackman to do something new, and give the film a very fresh spin for both creative reasons and marketing. It also might be what unites at least Xavier and Mystique if Logan has been a friend of hers for a decade at that point. Though, if Magneto does not become a Horseman, I do not see him giving a crap about what happened to Logan, but still.

__________________
"Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country."

--John Adams
DACrowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 03:10 PM   #3
Loki882
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,915
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

Plus Singer heavily implied that Young Scott, Jean, and Storm will appear. Making Wolverine one of the Horsemen could ensure that he doesn't overshadow Cyclops yet again. And the idea of Scott and Jean's first big mission means fighting an "evil" Wolverine is just deliciously ironic to me.

Loki882 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 03:12 PM   #4
Loki882
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,915
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
In short, I agree with the overall thought process.

Angel is from the wrong timeline now, and Gambit will not be made the Horseman Death, because he has not been introduced (at least in a non-XOW context or with Channing Tatum playing him), so the transformation will mean nothing.

However, Logan becoming a Horseman, as well as possibly Magneto, would be very interesting. It would allow Jackman to do something new, and give the film a very fresh spin for both creative reasons and marketing. It also might be what unites at least Xavier and Mystique if Logan has been a friend of hers for a decade at that point. Though, if Magneto does not become a Horseman, I do not see him giving a crap about what happened to Logan, but still.
If Magneto doesn't end up being a Horsemen (I want him to be one btw), then I could see him uniting with Charles and Mystique (who could also potentially become a Horsemen as well) just because Apocalypse is that big a threat. He's too powerful for them to handle on their own.

Loki882 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 03:15 PM   #5
BlackFox
Name on the trophy?
 
BlackFox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: At the far post
Posts: 3,889
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

I'm pretty confident Logan will be a horseman it seems logical considering the ending of DOFP, but do people think they will go with "attack on NY" as the story, isnt that a bit too close to the Avengers?

__________________
TEKKERS
BlackFox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 03:52 PM   #6
Super Jim
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,000
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

^ I agree that the "attack New York" story is too similar to Avengers, and really it makes it bigger and better if it's a "destroy the world" story.

Where the battle ends up taking place, whether New York or elsewhere, shouldn't matter too much as the battle would be extremely different than the aliens attacking story from Avengers. But ultimately it could end up just being the desert or some other city, anywhere around the World.

An interesting question is whether or not to use Mystique as a Horseman. At least in one storyline she was either Famine or Pestilence.

It would be pretty amazing to see both Wolverine and Mystique as Horsemen and likely Magneto needing to side with Xavier, along with his X-Men (young Cyclops, young Jean, young Storm, Gambit, Beast, etc.) to defeat the Horsemen and Apocalypse.

I think this could be turned into a really good story!



This could also lead to an interesting storyline of a young Nightcrawler, who we know Singer wants to include.



Last edited by Super Jim; 05-28-2014 at 04:31 PM.
Super Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 06:33 PM   #7
DACrowe
Side-Kick
 
DACrowe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 26,006
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFox View Post
I'm pretty confident Logan will be a horseman it seems logical considering the ending of DOFP, but do people think they will go with "attack on NY" as the story, isnt that a bit too close to the Avengers?
Or any Spidey movie?

I see them going for Apocalypse wants to bring about, well, an apocalypse. He wants to turn the world into a dystopia where only his chosen people survive as his slaves. I am not sure how you make that seems ominous as it should, but that would be the wise direction to take this character for the first movie.

__________________
"Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country."

--John Adams
DACrowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 07:02 PM   #8
Jumpman
Side-Kick
 
Jumpman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 396
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

Having no knowledge of the comics but going with how they ended this film, using Wolverine as one of the Horseman sounds juicy as hell.

The hook for the franchise, the audience, and for Jackman is that he'd be a villain in an X-Men film. That's enough to peak everyone's interests....especially after this last film has got the franchise on the positive buzz track.

On top of that, Kinberg has said that this third film is/could be the story of Charles and Erik coming back together/come to an understanding.

Apocalypse with Logan and possibly Mustique as a Horseman and the theme of Xavier keeping his word to future Wolverine that he would "find them, lead them, guide them" fits beautifully if this is the closing film for the FIRST CLASS cast.

Ugh, this just needs to happen now!

Jumpman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 07:35 PM   #9
danoyse
Snikt. Stab. Repeat.
SHH! Administrator
 
danoyse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: A world I long to see.
Posts: 22,695
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

This was the painful part of getting to see DOFP two weeks early. I had to sit on knowing that they seemed to be setting Wolverine up to become Death in the next film and couldn't tell anyone.

Actually, I could have told...but where's the fun in that??

I love that idea. Firstly because it will retcon the way they screwed up Weapon X in Origins. And because it will give Hugh something to do in the films that's he's never done before...which after 7 films, is definitely a good thing.

Hugh's said in interviews that he doesn't think the role he'll have in Apocalypse will be as big as the one he had in DOFP, but if they're doing this storyline at all, it should be pretty awesome.

__________________
"You change the world when you change your mind.
danoyse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 07:39 PM   #10
Jumpman
Side-Kick
 
Jumpman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 396
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by danoyse View Post
This was the painful part of getting to see DOFP two weeks early. I had to sit on knowing that they seemed to be setting Wolverine up to become Death in the next film and couldn't tell anyone.

Actually, I could have told...but where's the fun in that??

I love that idea. Firstly because it will retcon the way they screwed up Weapon X in Origins. And because it will give Hugh something to do in the films that's he's never done before...which after 7 films, is definitely a good thing.

Hugh's said in interviews that he doesn't think the role he'll have in Apocalypse will be as big as the one he had in DOFP, but if they're doing this storyline at all, it should be pretty awesome.
I mean, why even do that bit with Mystique as Stryker if you're not going to change things for Logan?

It's almost too perfect especially when you think about the scene on the plane when Logan asks Charles to come find them, the X-Men. That's a straight lead in to the next film.

And considering Logan saved Charles in this film, why wouldn't Charles repay the favor?

Ugh, this just sounds too damn good. This has to be the way they're going right? Right?

Jumpman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 07:42 PM   #11
danoyse
Snikt. Stab. Repeat.
SHH! Administrator
 
danoyse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: A world I long to see.
Posts: 22,695
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumpman View Post
I mean, why even do that bit with Mystique as Stryker if you're not going to change things for Logan?

It's almost too perfect especially when you think about the scene on the plane when Logan asks Charles to come find them, the X-Men. That's a straight lead in to the next film.

And considering Logan saved Charles in this film, why wouldn't Charles repay the favor?

Ugh, this just sounds too damn good. This has to be the way they're going right? Right?
Yeah, this is why I was dying for two weeks...

It's great. I had pretty much known about the happy mansion ending before I saw the movie, but I had no idea that was coming. So awesome.

__________________
"You change the world when you change your mind.
danoyse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 07:51 PM   #12
Jumpman
Side-Kick
 
Jumpman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 396
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by danoyse View Post
Yeah, this is why I was dying for two weeks...

It's great. I had pretty much known about the happy mansion ending before I saw the movie, but I had no idea that was coming. So awesome.
Kinberg said on that EMPIRE podcast that originally, Logan was going to be found by Stryker but that felt like too much downer of an ending and back to the status quo.

Having Jackman play an evil Logan is just the hook to build even more buzz off the good buzz this franchise has right now.

I didn't quite understand why, at one instance Jackman said he was about done with the character then within weeks says he's reenergized about the franchise and the character again.

This has to be the hook that got his juices flowing. Has to be.

Imagine a disaster level X-Men film with the first mutant as the antagonist, alone with Logan as one of his horseman?

Yeah, if this doesn't happen now....EPIC DISAPPOINTMENT.

Jumpman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 10:32 PM   #13
universeman
Side-Kick
 
universeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 568
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

Well Hugh will be playing as Blackbeard in the new Peter Pan movie I'm going to check it out and see how he plays as a Villain type role.

__________________
HEROES is coming back in 2015! Roads where were going we don't need roads!
universeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 11:49 PM   #14
TrueMiracle85
Newbie First Class
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 24
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by universeman View Post
Well Hugh will be playing as Blackbeard in the new Peter Pan movie I'm going to check it out and see how he plays as a Villain type role.
Check out Hugh in Deception with Ewan McGregor also. He doesn't play a straight up villain, but definitely a shady character. And look at his work in Prisoners, very dark stuff. I'm very excited for where things seem to be headed with X-Men: Apocalypse. They have everything laid out so good at this point and it's going to be a lot of fun seeing things play out in the coming films.

TrueMiracle85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 02:16 AM   #15
psylockolussus
The X-Men 5 Advocator!
 
psylockolussus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The future, where else would I be?
Posts: 18,028
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

Wolverine as a villain or a horseman of Apocalypse would be cool and refreshing to watch!

__________________
X-MEN RI5E' MUTANT OF THE MONTH | ICEMAN | PORTRAYED BY SHAWN ASHMORE
"Welcome to mutant high" - X1
"Call me Iceman" - X2
"Don't ever do that again" - X3
"They'll find us they'll always do" - X4
JOIN MY ADVOCACY ON www.twitter.com/xmen5movie2018/
psylockolussus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 06:18 AM   #16
hoy-small-fry
No strings on me...
 
hoy-small-fry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: On your left
Posts: 1,049
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

This idea has grown on me this week. Now I want it to happen. It's the perfect arc for Wolverine and shows why the untamed 70s Logan would join the X-Men

__________________
"What exactly are you a Professor of Mr Logan?"
"Art"

Coulson: "Sir?"
Fury: "You don't have to call me sir, Coulson. Look at me. I'm dressed like I live under a bridge."
hoy-small-fry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 08:41 AM   #17
Spider-Fan
The First Avenger Mod!!!
SHH! Global Moderator
 
Spider-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the neighborhood!
Posts: 38,822
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

I'm all for this!

Spider-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 08:54 AM   #18
Super Jim
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,000
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

Now the question is whether they would keep the identity of the Horseman Death a secret and reveal it during the movie, to the dismay of characters like Beast, Professor X, and Magneto; or would they reveal this prior to get the amazing buzz of Wolverine being a villain?

To me that's a tough call. In the comics the reveal of Death being Wolverine was pretty cool, especially since Death carried a huge sword, something Wolverine wouldn't need. It definitely threw me off at the time.

The poster could have the Horseman Death like this:



Or this:



Super Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 09:05 AM   #19
hoy-small-fry
No strings on me...
 
hoy-small-fry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: On your left
Posts: 1,049
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

But it would quite clearly be Hugh Jackman...

__________________
"What exactly are you a Professor of Mr Logan?"
"Art"

Coulson: "Sir?"
Fury: "You don't have to call me sir, Coulson. Look at me. I'm dressed like I live under a bridge."
hoy-small-fry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 10:51 AM   #20
Super Jim
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,000
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

For fanboys, yes, but for the general audience, I think it could be a surprise for them, especially if done well.

Super Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 02:14 PM   #21
Orba
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 148
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

I remember liking that storyline when he was revealed to he a horseman, of course in that storyline Marvel managed to keep it a surprise by having Logan replaced by a Skrull so no-one knew that he had been gone.

Orba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 04:27 PM   #22
Super Jim
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,000
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

True, but there could be things that they do to keep at least the general audience from realizing it's Logan.

At the same time, would they want to reveal this in order to put Hugh on the poster in the costume of Death?



Last edited by Super Jim; 07-08-2014 at 11:45 AM.
Super Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 04:48 PM   #23
JP
To me
 
JP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 52,930
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

I'd be so disappointed if he isn't. It just seems so perfect and would be so fun to see.

JP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 05:00 PM   #24
Duran Man
The Seventh Stranger
 
Duran Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,275
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Jim View Post
True, but there could be things that they do to keep at least the general audience from realizing it's Logan.

At the same time, would they want to reveal this in order to put Hugh on the poster in the costume of Death?
I think they should market him as Death (were he to assume that role). Imagine a poster saying, "Wolverine is DEATH." It's too cool not to happen.

__________________
VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:
Duran Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2014, 09:21 AM   #25
Super Jim
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,000
Default Re: Wolverine - The Horseman Death

I can imagine a poster with Wolverine (as Death) in the center, with Apocalypse behind and the other three Horsemen somehwere, smaller. Add in Professor X, a 15 year old Storm with a 22 year old Gambit, a 15 year old Jean with a 15 year old Scott, along wth a 20 year old Nightcrawler, as well as Mystique; and wow!!!

That would look AMAZING!!!!!

Super Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:14 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.