State your unpopular film related opinion - - - - - - - - - - Part 19

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by JJJ's Ulcer

Wow. That actually hit the nail on the head. Very good analysis. Like you said it's not within his version of Parker, so hence it seems very forced and stilted.

Here's another example. Start at the one minute mark of this clip from the first Spider-Man when he's confronting the Green Goblin, who's proposing they work together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GAXZDl0WKA

GG: "Are you in or are you out?"

SM: "It's you who's out, "Gobby"…. out of your mind."

Ugh. I get embarrassed for Maguire just watching it. :doh:

In retrospect, Tobey Maguire was miscast. His Parker was *okay* (let's be honest, it wasn't iconic or pitch-perfect like Hugh Jackman's Wolverine or RDJ's Iron-Man), but his Spidey was woefully dull and colorless. And with half the equation of the character lacking, he fails as a Spider-Man. Andrew Garfield isn't pitch-perfect either, but he is an improvement, even if the movies he's in still aren't the best.

People come out with stuff like, 'Spidey makes quips as a defense mechanism', or 'the quips are wish fulfillment' i.e. he puts on the costume and disappears into a different persona and these are valid points but the quips still have to come from 'somewhere'. If you have a character who is dour and flat and then becomes Chris Rock when he puts on a mask, I'm sorry but I'm just not buying it.

You have the example of bumbling Clark Kent and the suave Superman, totally different characters played by the same person but the performance that Reeve gives is he is 'PLAYING' bumbling. There is that incredible scene where he is in front of the mirror and he is stuttering and then he takes off his glasses and stands straight and seems to grow two inches and talks confidently and the hunches down again when Lois calls him. Difference between Maguire's nerdy Peter and Reeve's nerdy Kent is Reeve is 'PLAYING' a nerd but he 'IS' a confident hero, he isn't a bumbling idiot playing as a hero when he puts the costume on.

So for me, Toby as Peter Parker doesn't work because there is no aspect of a cocky wise arse in his personality and I mean EVER so why should I buy it when he turns into that character when he puts on a costume?

Look at what Garfield does to Flash on the Basketball court after he gets powers, remember he hasn't put on the costume yet. He absolutely humiliates him, he does it because that is in him, that is in his character. Now I am thinking of Raimi movies and of an instance where Maguire is cocky or a wise arse and I'm struggling. Maybe when Maguire is wearing the black suit (SM3) you get a cocky vibe from him, but I never get 'funny' or 'wise arse'.

[DarkSovereignty]

Hey Spider-Neil, you know there's a multi-quote option, right? Just saying, you keep posting 4-5 posts one right after another and you might get hit up by the mods for spamming.

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Kinda a moot point considering it's a new thread.

[GremlinZilla89]

Originally Posted by spider-neil

People come out with stuff like, 'Spidey makes quips as a defense mechanism', or 'the quips are wish fulfillment' i.e. he puts on the costume and disappears into a different persona and these are valid points but the quips still have to come from 'somewhere'. If you have a character who is dour and flat and then becomes Chris Rock when he puts on a mask, I'm sorry but I'm just not buying it.

You have the example of bumbling Clark Kent and the suave Superman, totally different characters played by the same person but the performance that Reeve gives is he is 'PLAYING' bumbling. There is that incredible scene where he is in front of the mirror and he is stuttering and then he takes off his glasses and stands straight and seems to grow two inches and talks confidently and the hunches down again when Lois calls him. Difference between Maguire's nerdy Peter and Reeve's nerdy Kent is Reeve is 'PLAYING' a nerd but he 'IS' a confident hero, he isn't a bumbling idiot playing as a hero when he puts the costume on.

So for me, Toby as Peter Parker doesn't work because there is no aspect of a cocky wise arse in his personality and I mean EVER so why should I buy it when he turns into that character when he puts on a costume?

Look at what Garfield does to Flash on the Basketball court after he gets powers, remember he hasn't put on the costume yet. He absolutely humiliates him, he does it because that is in him, that is in his character. Now I am thinking of Raimi movies and of an instance where Maguire is cocky or a wise arse and I'm struggling. Maybe when Maguire is wearing the black suit (SM3) you get a cocky vibe from him, but I never get 'funny' or 'wise arse'.

And this in a nutshell is why I don't like Maguire as Peter. I don't want to act like I know the character better than life long fans and experts as I've only been seriously reading comics for about 5 years now but I've now read numerous incarnations of Spidey (pretty much everything 616 up until the Clone Saga, which I skipped around and ALL of Ultimate. I've just now started a bit of Spectacular) and outside of his pre-bite persona, Peter never ever seems to me, in my reading/interpenetration of the character, as some dopey social inept nerd like Maguire plays him as. He reads more like an average Joe with s--t luck left and right. Peter Parker is an every-man, not a deflated mopey loser. And even when he was pre-bite, he never came off like such a panty-waste.

That's my biggest issue with Maguire. Peter has confidence in and OUT of the suit. Maguire doesn't. And in the rare occasion when they Spidey a one-liner, it feels out of place and odd.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

I think Maguire is a pretty good Peter Parker. I don't like his mopey, "If only Mary Jane would..." stuff, but other than that, he's pretty gripping as Peter.

[gwynplaine]

I liked Maguire too but I don't think he is as charismatic or as good as Garfield. Garfield is like a young Anthony Perkins who come to think of it would have made a great Ditko/Spiderman

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Garfield is electric as Spider-Man.

[GremlinZilla89]

"Titanic" is a marvelous film. It's the last true, old school Hollywood epic. Cynics can whine about the love story using cliched tropes all they want. I don't care. On the surface the love story is cliche, but the chemistry and acting and heart of it transcend the cliche...and THAT IS WHAT GOOD FILMS DO! They transcend idea's and tropes and cliches and make them work.

The hate for "Titanic" is imo the most transparent case of bandwagon jumping in regards to a films reception that I can think of. I don't care what anyone says, the amount of hate it got only a few short years after it's release is proof enough that a lot of people turned their backs on it just to be cool or fit in with the crowd. And no, I don't think EVERYONE should like this movie. I'm not saying that.
It's a true to the core epic with real earnest heart and emotion. There is a refreshing sort of old school appeal to the film now that I love considering the state of blockbusters these days needing to be dark, or brooding or convoluted in story and ironic in some way. The film is immaculately shot. The cinematography, costumes, the lighting, the sets, the effects....it's a freaking visual marvel and hasn't aged a day. The sinking portion of the film is one of the best displays of suspense and effects film making of all time.

"Titanic" has it all.

[Tron Bonne]

Where's the hate for Titanic?

[GremlinZilla89]

Originally Posted by Tron Bonne

Where's the hate for Titanic?

It's calmed over time, but for a while it was everybodies whipping boy. People have moved onto Cameron's other biggest movie of all time, "Avatar."

[DarkSovereignty]

I always kind if hated titanic.

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I hated Titanic in the 90's as a kneejerk reaction to it winning all those Oscars and all the girls at my highschool swooning over "Jack and Kate."

I saw it on TV a few years ago and removed from all the hype that surrounded it, it's actually quite entertaining and the last act when the boat is sinking (oh sorry, spoiler ) is quite gripping.

[Sawyer]

Titanic hate has always been overblown to ridiculous proportions. It's like it isn't enough to merely not be a fan of a movie, no, you have to consider it one of the worst things of the decade.

[DarkSovereignty]

I don't think it's the worst thing ever, I just find all the characters to be annoying. The sinking part is great though

[Doctor Jones]

Honestly my biggest criticism about the film is Kate Winslet. She's a terrific actress, but there's something about her that's kind of stilted in Titanic.

[terry78]

She was supposed to be the posh upper crust falling for the charms of the lower class American rabble.

[gwynplaine]

Titanic is great. Still holds up, one of DiCaprio's best performances.
He was also great in Blood Diamond, underrated film and performance imo.

[gwynplaine]

Originally Posted by Doctor Jones

Honestly my biggest criticism about the film is Kate Winslet. She's a terrific actress, but there's something about her that's kind of stilted in Titanic.

Good point I agree.

[CaptainWagner]

Originally Posted by GremlinZilla89

And this in a nutshell is why I don't like Maguire as Peter. I don't want to act like I know the character better than life long fans and experts as I've only been seriously reading comics for about 5 years now but I've now read numerous incarnations of Spidey (pretty much everything 616 up until the Clone Saga, which I skipped around and ALL of Ultimate. I've just now started a bit of Spectacular) and outside of his pre-bite persona, Peter never ever seems to me, in my reading/interpenetration of the character, as some dopey social inept nerd like Maguire plays him as. He reads more like an average Joe with s--t luck left and right. Peter Parker is an every-man, not a deflated mopey loser. And even when he was pre-bite, he never came off like such a panty-waste.

That's my biggest issue with Maguire. Peter has confidence in and OUT of the suit. Maguire doesn't. And in the rare occasion when they Spidey a one-liner, it feels out of place and odd.

This pretty much sums up my own feelings on the topic. TASM 1 and 2 may not be great films, but Garfield has one an outstanding job as Parker/Spider-man in my opinion.


As for my own unpopular opinion: I actually liked Vinnie Jones as the Juggernaut in X3.

[Victarion]

Avatar is one of the best big-budget fantasy epics I have ever seen, and surpasses Jackson's Rings series in terms of story and visuals.

[gwynplaine]

^Agreed.

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I like 'Freddy VS Jason.' It's not a good movie per se, but it's a very entertaining one. And let's be honest, only Nightmare 1, 3 (Dream Warriors) and New Nightmare were any good in the first place. And all the Fridays sucked, except maybe the very first one. So I don't understand why all the critics pick on F Vs J. It even had a cool rip-off of Jay from the View Askew universe.

At any rate, it's much better than the other early 00's crossover film Aliens VS Predator, which tried to make the Predators the heroes and toned everything down to a soft PG-13.

[GremlinZilla89]

Originally Posted by JJJ's Ulcer

I like 'Freddy VS Jason.' It's not a good movie per se, but it's a very entertaining one. And let's be honest, only Nightmare 1, 3 (Dream Warriors) and New Nightmare were any good in the first place. And all the Fridays sucked, except maybe the very first one. So I don't understand why all the critics pick on F Vs J. It even had a cool rip-off of Jay from the View Askew universe.

At any rate, it's much better than the other early 00's crossover film Aliens VS Predator, which tried to make the Predators the heroes and toned everything down to a soft PG-13.

Being a horror junky, and a fanboy of both franchises, FVJ was a dream come true and came out at the perfect time in my horror loving life. I adore it. It's a freakin' blast and one of the best theater experiences I've ever had.

Of course critics didn't like it! They ripped all of those films apart, except for some mild praise for the Nightmare franchise. I don't hang on critics to begin with....but when it comes to horror critics are all but invisible.