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Old 06-16-2014, 04:16 AM   #101
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

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I've often wondered at times on who would be a good female member to enlist within the main roster with Wonder Woman on a live action JL film. I mean should they just go with Hawkgirl like in the JL series? Or go with someone else, like maybe Black Canary? Zatanna?
Hawkgirl would be good - she and Diana always seemed to bond quite well in the old Justice League comic series.

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:18 AM   #102
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

Another female on the team would be nice. However, I can see concerns about the starting team getting overcrowded, and you have to have the originals present, so that might be our lineup for now.

The Avengers had the same unfortunate problem, except they had a two-dimensional bore as their female member (Black Widow) instead of a comic book legend and arguably the greatest female superhero of all time (Wonder Woman).

Still, I'd like to see them add Black Canary to the mix (not a big fan of Hawkgirl).

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:20 AM   #103
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

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I don't want to speak for him, but maybe it's because there's only one women on a team of 8 individuals. It's certainly not a gender balanced line-up. It doesn't help that the one women is wearing a swimsuit-esque costume while the rest wear full bodysuits.
All of that, but also Diana needs a foil, like how batman needs superman.

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:22 AM   #104
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

This talk about the roster reminds me
Did you guys notice that the Justice League members who went to space by the end of season 1 of Young Justice are the original seven from Bruce Timm's Justice League series? Except for Flash, he's Kid Flash in Young Justice

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:22 AM   #105
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

I can really go either way, with caveats for each one. If you go the totally classic line up, then it might be good to also have supporting characters like Amanda Waller, Cyborg, Catherine Colbert, Lois Lane, Catwoman ect. somewhere in the film, not though necessarily as part of the team proper, much as Samuel L. Jackson and Maria Hill were not on the AVENGERS team but still part of the action and involved with the plot.
If you change things up from the comics (which with Cyborg rumored there it seems likely) with substitutions then I say at least the members of the original seve still has to make an appearance even if they do not join the team proper. So, imagine that Martian Manhunter appears but dies in the film's climax, and that Aquaman is there but refuses actually joining a formal team. In their stead you have both Cyborg and perhaps Both the Hawks to up the female membership. Frankly I am also open to having both Hal and John in this thing. It would allow for options in later films.

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:24 AM   #106
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

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All of that, but also Diana needs a foil, like how batman needs superman.
Does she need a gender-specific foil?

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:25 AM   #107
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

I'm more concerned about giving characters like Wonder Woman the cinematic space to breathe and develop and take shape than I am about filling up the roster with others just to make the male-to-female ratio more palatable. Hate to put it that way, but they've got one shot here at establishing these characters... best to do it right rather than jumping the gun.

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:27 AM   #108
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

So I'm sitting here watching Man of Steel: Journey of Discovery and they are discussing the scene after Superman saves Lois from certain death in the escape pod. Well Zack snyder is talking about Henry being in his suit and all that and sitting on his desk behind him is a statue of Superman fighting Batman....has anyone noticed that before??

EDIT: timestamp is 1:45:09 if anyone is interested

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:28 AM   #109
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

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Does she need a gender-specific foil?
It helps.

If there is only one woman, Diana becomes "the woman", there needs to be other females there to help her come off as a person.

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:29 AM   #110
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

I suppose so.

We should have two black guys then!

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:31 AM   #111
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

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I suppose so.

We should have two black guys then!
The planet is about 15% Black and 50% female.

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:34 AM   #112
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

True. Then I advocate replacing Hal and Barry with Hawkgirl and Zatanna.

On that note, I do wonder if they will keep the tv/film characters separate.


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Old 06-16-2014, 04:36 AM   #113
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

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Isn't avoiding doing anything with political correctness in mind just pandering to the people who don't care for political correctness?

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:38 AM   #114
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

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That doesn't make much sense though. Some people care about having a more gender balanced team and some don't. If they chose to just stick with the usual and ignore that fact that some care about gender and race representation, they're only pleasing the group that wants to stick to the classics. My point is that making a movie to appeal to either side could be considered pandering.
I guess we agree to disagree. To me pandering means going out of your way to please. Going with the classic team for JL's first ever representation on film isn't really pandering. In my view anyway.

Also it becomes a slippery slope of trying to appease everyone. Everybody wanted WW, implied WB/DC was sexist for not using her, complained about the lack of a strong female presence etc.

Now we have that presence, but will that be enough? How many females need to be shoehorned into the team in order to satisfy that section of the fanbase?

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:38 AM   #115
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

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True. Then I advocate replacing Hal and Barry with Hawkgirl and Zatanna.

On that note, I do wonder if they will keep the tv/film characters separate.
I think so. As much as I'd love for Stephen Amell to be in a Justice League movie, I don't see that happening.

And honestly, I don't mind as long as they also continue to build and expand on a DC TV Universe.

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:41 AM   #116
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

Yeah can we at least allow them to get Wondy right first? Heck can we allow them to get everyone that isn't Batman right first?

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:42 AM   #117
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

I agree with MrsK so much as I see it as a circular argument, really. If they do only the canon line up some will be vocal about an all white team that in fact has only one woman and a green skinned alien that is a stand in for racial diversity, but not really. On the other hand, do a version that does include non white characters and has more women but is not canon, the long time fan will gnash his teeth and rip his garments as well as the first crowd did only now it's cries of "political correctness" run amok. You all know this is what happens.

Which is why I am cool either way with what is done. Just like with Avengers. I would have been happy with Jan and Hank included somehow. I didn't get that. I still saw it in theaters 4 times.

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:43 AM   #118
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

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I suppose so.

We should have two black guys then!
I'd be against Cyborg's inclusion if they didn't establish him as a core JL member across multiple forms of media first. He's a token, but at least he has precedence and purpose.

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:44 AM   #119
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I think so. As much as I'd love for Stephen Amell to be in a Justice League movie, I don't see that happening.

And honestly, I don't mind as long as they also continue to build and expand on a DC TV Universe.
I wonder if they'll keep actors seperate, or characters entirely?

So, for Film:
Supes
Bats
WW
Cyborg
Aquaman
Zatanna?
Hawkgirl?
John Stewart?
Shazam?

and for TV:
Green Arrow
Black Canary
Flash
Hal?
Waller
etc


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Old 06-16-2014, 04:48 AM   #120
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

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I'd be against Cyborg's inclusion if they didn't establish him as a core JL member across multiple forms of media first. He's a token, but at least he has precedence and purpose.
Why can't the films lead rather than follow the comics?

In any case, hawk girl, zatanna, star girl, supergirl, huntress, black canary, all showed up on JLU.

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:50 AM   #121
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

That's JLU though. Which is an expanded version of the team...complete with a space station.

Is there a particular rush to introduce all of these members that I don't know about?

I'd have to agree with Sharkboy. Let's get the core group down first before we go trying to implement diversity for diversity's sake.

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:51 AM   #122
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

I'd be happy with this line-up for Justice League once Batman v Superman introduces the heroes..


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Old 06-16-2014, 04:52 AM   #123
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

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That's JLU though. Which is an expanded version of the team...complete with a space station.

Is there a particular rush to introduce all of these members that I don't know about?
In 2017 there will be a JL with 5-8 members.

The characters most famous to comic book nerds are not necessarily the best choice.

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:53 AM   #124
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

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I agree with MrsK so much as I see it as a circular argument, really. If they do only the canon line up some will be vocal about an all white team that in fact has only one woman and a green skinned alien that is a stand in for racial diversity, but not really. On the other hand, do a version that does include non white characters and has more women but is not canon, the long time fan will gnash his teeth and rip his garments as well as the first crowd did only now it's cries of "political correctness" run amok. You all know this is what happens.

Which is why I am cool either way with what is done. Just like with Avengers. I would have been happy with Jan and Hank included somehow. I didn't get that. I still saw it in theaters 4 times.
I mean either way I'm fine for the most part, but thinking about it, it is getting ridiculous when it comes to the MCU, and superhero movies in general.

Marvel Studios has had 9 movies, and none of the leading superheroes have been minorities or women. Hell, they still haven't even announced a Black Panther movie which has been a movie fans have been clamoring for. Black Widow, despite being played by Scarlett Johansson who has some drawing power (We'll see how much she has when Lucy gets released), can't get a movie off the ground either. The Avengers didn't have a single minority superhero (Nick Fury is not Avenger so he doesn't count) and AoU is looking to be the same thing (but at least they added another female).

It's both funny and sad that despite all the so-called risks Marvel seems to be taking with their movies, they're still hesitant to greenlight a movie with a minority lead or a female.

Momoa I think is an attempt to add more diversity so I like that they're doing that. I also like that Cyborg will be a Justice League character.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog View Post
I wonder if they'll keep actors seperate, or characters entirely?

So, for Film:
Supes
Bats
WW
Cyborg
Aquaman
Hawkgirl?
Zatanna?
Shazam?

and for TV:
Green Arrow
Black Canary
Flash
(Hal)
Waller
etc
Don't forget the Suicide Squad. I think they can build up and expand the DC Universe on TV without Batman and Superman. I personally think it makes a for a more interesting concept that gives other DC characters the spotlight.

Why is Hal in there? He hasn't shown up nor has he been rumored to show up?

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:57 AM   #125
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 64

I wonder if Clark Kent will be sporting a beard in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice?


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