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Old 07-15-2014, 03:37 AM   #51
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

I don't see why the death of Zod should matter to any of the characters (save Clark) more than the death of any other people. No one in the world (who deserves screen time) is going to have a problem with Superman putting down the psychotic mass murderer, just like Cap 2 didn't need a mention of anti-war hippies who have a problem with Cap killing Nazis.

The only person I could see it affecting is Clark. Even then, I don't think he'd regret it, and I don't think the movie needs to explore his feelings on the matter unless it bears relevance to this story.


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Old 07-15-2014, 03:41 AM   #52
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

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This is the no 1 thing I do not want to see-BVS turn into an apology for MOS.

The way to address the collateral damage is simple
1.Make it clear that the World Engine was responsible for the destruction and loss of lives in Metropolis NOT Superman as incorrectly reported.
2.Show that Superman actually helped rebuild Metropolis(This should have been in the MOS movie).
3.Memorial for those lost in the World engine attack(This should have been in the MOS movie).
4.Show that Superman has become more experienced at the job to prevent such Mass loss of Life.


As for Zods death I dont want BVS to apologise for it.Show that Superman regrets it but he knows he did what he had to do.Move on.
Most importantly, Superman shouldn't have to apologise for it, the 'kill' translates on so many levels, we have seen his immediate sadness, regret, remorse and anger for letting himself be placed in that situation. Having 'learnt' from it would be the best outcome to show in DoJ, why killing is not the answer and upholds a shared ideal between B and S.

People do not inheriently 'want to kill', (unless sociopaths), it was a 'him' or the family as an anology for the earth that would die.

The scream and release of emotion indicates his grief of that moment, a piece of him died with Zod, all that Jonthan had spoken with him as a child, a part of that kill went with his father's words. The sequel is about finding others that wish to re-build their life for reasons of their own, that's why being a team is so important, the JL formation is about fragments of broken people having the capacity to accept, acknowledge and be part of each other.

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Old 07-15-2014, 03:43 AM   #53
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

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I don't see why the death of Zod should matter to any of the characters (save Clark) more than the death of any other people. No one in the world (who deserves screen time) is going to have a problem with Superman putting down the psychotic mass murderer, just like Cap 2 didn't need a mention of anti-war hippies who have a problem with Cap killing Nazis.
I can definitely see why people in the movie would have a problem with a powerful alien brutally killing somebody. They are going for a real-world, imagine this could happen in our world context so it would natural for the murder of Zod; to be shown in BvS as having widespread ripple effects upon not only the city of Metropolis but elsewhere. How does Ma Kent feel? Lois Lane? Perry White? Batman? It could be a major development for the character of Clark Kent/Superman or they could sweep it under the carpet and pretend it never happened but audiences will remember it did.

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Old 07-15-2014, 03:47 AM   #54
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

It's not murder.

I don't think it would be considered "swept under the rug" if in BvS, Clark is fine, just like he seemed to be at the end of MOS. To me, Clark's personal reaction to the death seemed resolved to the point where it doesn't 'need' following-up on. At the end at the graveyard, he seems at peace with his own choices, his father's (and his own) choices and beliefs (of how sometimes "there's more at stake" than one life).

The only person who I think could bring this up is Batman, who may see the parallels between Supes and himself (as the two 'capes') which could drum up some conflicting feelings in himself about not killing 'a certain madman' several years ago (the one responsible for killing Jason Todd).


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Old 07-15-2014, 03:50 AM   #55
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

I don't think anybody really grieved for Bin Laden. Same principle here.

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Old 07-15-2014, 03:54 AM   #56
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

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I don't think anybody really grieved for Bin Laden. Same principle here.
Sorry, to confirm, I meant 'grief' in a 'of his actions' way not grief for the death of Zod. It was ultimate sacrifice of one's ideals and soul for the break of generational sacrifice of a familes' destiny.

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Old 07-15-2014, 03:57 AM   #57
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

All I meant was that even though no one will really care that Zod was killed, the story told in MoS should be a topic of discussion in BvS.
It's kinda obvious though but it sounded like some people were suggesting they just move on and not mention it whatsoever.

You can't do that. Aliens invaded and tried to terraform Earth.
Another alien fought to protect them, killing the other alien.
It happened and should not be ignored.
But obviously it will have it's own story to tell that branches out.
This is a time of growth for Clark. Much to a lot of people's chagrin, he still won't be the fully mature Superman at the start of BvS. Depending on what happens between MoS and BvS I guess. But even if he's been saving people this whole time, the Superman everyone knows that kind of transcends individual comic stories, may not still exist until the end of this movie.

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Old 07-15-2014, 03:58 AM   #58
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

I was referring to the supporting characters as well as Metropolis, not so much Superman. I understand how difficult it was for him to do what he did.

I doubt he would be condemned for stopping a mad man though. People would be more worried about whether or not this means that Kal could possibly attract more aliens in the future, as well as the destruction of their city.

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Old 07-15-2014, 04:05 AM   #59
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

I just can't wait to see Clark and Bruce, once they kind of know each other a little, navigating around each other's methods.
Seeing that in live action will be chill inducing for me.

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Old 07-15-2014, 04:35 AM   #60
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

It's not that I'm not grateful for us getting pictures of Batman and Superman from this film already, but I'm just wondering on why bother releasing them at this stage if they weren't going to do any shooting where it would spy photos of the suits would have been taken and uploaded onto the Internet right away?

I mean the film is 2 years away and with no shooting taking place outside involving any of the major characters, I just wonder the logic in releasing these shots at this stage. Again, not complaining, I'm just curious.

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Old 07-15-2014, 04:37 AM   #61
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

I really want to know why somebody who goes on about wanting Superman to be just like the comics, wants the DCCU to be just like the comics, keeps going on about how BvS should be "dark", wants to see Superman bludgeoned and humiliated, but complains about the violence of MOS all the time?

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Old 07-15-2014, 04:41 AM   #62
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

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It's not that I'm not grateful for us getting pictures of Batman and Superman from this film already, but I'm just wondering on why bother releasing them at this stage if they weren't going to do any shooting where it would spy photos of the suits would have been taken and uploaded onto the Internet right away?

I mean the film is 2 years away and with no shooting taking place outside involving any of the major characters, I just wonder the logic in releasing these shots at this stage. Again, not complaining, I'm just curious.
Maybe it's just in case someone snaps or leaks a photo from an indoor shoot.

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Old 07-15-2014, 04:44 AM   #63
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

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Maybe it's just in case someone snaps or leaks a photo from an indoor shoot.
I don't know, I mean the security for this film has been super tight. Heck, all things consider, it's been somewhat impressive to see on how much effort has been put into ensuring absolute secrecy for this film.

I wouldn't be surprised if all camera phones and cameras are confiscated from anyone that goes on set whenever the main actors are there just to further ensure secrecy around this film.

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Old 07-15-2014, 04:49 AM   #64
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

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It's not that I'm not grateful for us getting pictures of Batman and Superman from this film already, but I'm just wondering on why bother releasing them at this stage if they weren't going to do any shooting where it would spy photos of the suits would have been taken and uploaded onto the Internet right away?

I mean the film is 2 years away and with no shooting taking place outside involving any of the major characters, I just wonder the logic in releasing these shots at this stage. Again, not complaining, I'm just curious.
I think its more about the studio releasing information/pictures on their own terms. They know how valuable it could be for a potential non-studio photographer if they had snapped the pictures first and then released them worldwide.

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Old 07-15-2014, 04:51 AM   #65
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

And again, it goes back to my question of wondering why release it this soon? The film isn't scheduled to come out until 2016 so it's not like they're in any rush to start promoting the thing....and given on how tight security has been so far, along with how well they've scheduled their shooting dates, it doesn't seem like they have to worry about any costume leaks.

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Old 07-15-2014, 04:53 AM   #66
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

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And again, it goes back to my question of wondering why release it this soon? The film isn't scheduled to come out until 2016 so it's not like they're in any rush to start promoting the thing....and given on how tight security has been so far, along with how well they've scheduled their shooting dates, it doesn't seem like they have to worry about any costume leaks.
Because with all the attention upon the film, the studio cant be confident that information wont leak - so they release things, and also hope to turn around the negative press regarding the film and try to reassure the public that they know what they are doing. Its trying to do two things at once, in essence. They know 2016 is a long ways off; and people need a release of information from the studio to keep interested.

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Old 07-15-2014, 04:56 AM   #67
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

The masses are dying to see a movie of Superman suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

Also, think of the opportunities for product placement.

"When Superman is feeling the blues, he relies on Prozac from Eli Lilly !"

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Old 07-15-2014, 05:01 AM   #68
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

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The masses are dying to see a movie of Superman suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

Also, think of the opportunities for product placement.

"When Superman is feeling the blues, he relies on Prozac from Eli Lilly !"
I think people want to see more emphasis on the characters, as well as character driven plots, and less reliance upon empty spectacle. Its not too much to ask if Warner Bros is serious about building a solid foundation for the all-new DCU.

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Old 07-15-2014, 05:02 AM   #69
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

Whilst they definitely need to deal with the aftermath of Man of Steel, i don't want to see Superman even more miserable and unsure of himself.

Let's see Cavill's great smile and less of that poxy furrowed brow.

Superman has a great weight on his shoulders. The weight of the world. But it's never a burden for him. He is proud of it, he embraces it. That's the key to Superman's personality. If he is all broody and burdened and insecure then it's not Superman, it's The Sentry or Hyperion or the Plutonian.

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Old 07-15-2014, 05:05 AM   #70
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

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I think people want to see more emphasis on the characters, as well as character driven plots, and less reliance upon empty spectacle. Its not too much to ask if Warner Bros is serious about building a solid foundation for the all-new DCU.
You really need a solid sarcasm detector, kiddo.

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Old 07-15-2014, 05:06 AM   #71
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Old 07-15-2014, 05:07 AM   #72
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

Da fudge? Ice-Berg Man?

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Old 07-15-2014, 05:10 AM   #73
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Whilst they definitely need to deal with the aftermath of Man of Steel, i don't want to see Superman even more miserable and unsure of himself.

Let's see Cavill's great smile and less of that poxy furrowed brow.

Superman has a great weight on his shoulders. The weight of the world. But it's never a burden for him. He is proud of it, he embraces it. That's the key to Superman's personality. If he is all broody and burdened and insecure then it's not Superman, it's The Sentry or Hyperion or the Plutonian.
Considering WB released a very serious picture of Cavill as Superman for BvS, I'm not sure we will be getting a happy Superman in BvS. If anything Clark would be more miserable and unsure of himself. Think about it; if he killed, what message does that give to the other heroes of the world? Maybe they will feel they can also kill. And what of the people of Metropolis. We already know Luthor will be planting the seeds of mis-trust there. But really even without Luthor, some people would have reason to fear Superman and aliens like him, because what other threats will be drawn to Metropolis because of him. Then there is Superman himself; does he still have nightmares about killing Zod? These were his own people! So there is a lot of material, if they are serious about exploring the characters in-depth for Batman v Superman Dawn of Justice.

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Old 07-15-2014, 05:10 AM   #74
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

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Whilst they definitely need to deal with the aftermath of Man of Steel, i don't want to see Superman even more miserable and unsure of himself.

Let's see Cavill's great smile and less of that poxy furrowed brow.

Superman has a great weight on his shoulders. The weight of the world. But it's never a burden for him. He is proud of it, he embraces it. That's the key to Superman's personality. If he is all broody and burdened and insecure then it's not Superman, it's The Sentry or Hyperion or the Plutonian.
So he really is John Cena.

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Old 07-15-2014, 05:13 AM   #75
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - Part 76

Yea he's had some trauma, but not every deals with trauma or tragedy by being a moping sad sack. Superman should still have a smile on his face and embrace his position as the Earths protector.

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