🇷🇺🇺🇦 Discussion: Relations with Russia and the war in Ukraine

[DarthSkywalker]

Conflict Intelligence Team aren't independent. They exist on foreign grants. So bias is obvious. On top of clueless speculation based on where the rear part is located and what direction this part is turned. And that is on top of already stated that Tochka-U aren't used by Russian forces.

There's no "most likely". It came from Krasnoarmeysk (5 years ago renamed into Pokrovsk) north-west of Donetsk. And Kramatorsk rocket came from Dobropolye.

And there's absolutely ZERO reason, no benefit whatsoever to hit civilians for Russian army.

There is asbolutely ZERO reason to be attacking a sovereign nation, but the Russian government seems cool with just making reasons up. There is plenty of credible evidence that they have purposely attacked Ukraine civilians on purpose. An attempt to demoralize while blaming Ukraine. Considering how Russian misinformation works, the government/army seems keen on committing the war crimes they accuse others of.

 

[InCali]

I find it very difficult to believe that Ukraine decided to level its cities (including apartment buildings) and suburbs when attacked so they could blame the attacker for it. That shoe just doesn't fit.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Poland throwing former ally against the EU under the bus. I can now see Poland coming to terms with the EU on the rule of law disagreement, while getting extra funding from them to help with Ukrainian refugees.

What's the process of kicking someone out of the NATO? I have to think it's being discussed more and more.

Hungary, Tucker Carlson's authoritarian "utopia", is siding with Putin.

What a surprise.

 

[Fosterson]

Conflict Intelligence Team aren't independent. They exist on foreign grants. So bias is obvious. On top of clueless speculation based on where the rear part is located and what direction this part is turned. And that is on top of already stated that Tochka-U aren't used by Russian forces.

There's no "most likely". It came from Krasnoarmeysk (5 years ago renamed into Pokrovsk) north-west of Donetsk. And Kramatorsk rocket came from Dobropolye.

And there's absolutely ZERO reason, no benefit whatsoever to hit civilians for Russian army.

Why did they do it repeatedly in Chechnya and Syria then?

 

[Fosterson]

Hungary, Tucker Carlson's authoritarian "utopia", is siding with Putin.

What a surprise.

It's also worth remembering that theres a sizable ethnic Hungarian minority in the far west of Ukraine.

At this point, I wouldn't put it past Orban to try a land grab.

 

[Sithborg]

And there's absolutely ZERO reason, no benefit whatsoever to hit civilians for Russian army.

For someone trying to carry water for Russia, you should probably pay attention to what Russia itself is saying. Russia has been upping its rhetoric for justifying genocide. There is absolutely no reason for what happened north of Kyiv.

Look, its war. Ukraine's hands aren't necessarily clean, sure. Them parading around prisoners early on is against the Geneva convention. I have seen reports that Ukraine has killed surrendering soldiers. Even then, it absolutely pales to the atrocities that Russia is committing.

Sure, hate the Azov Battalion. But here's the thing, the Wagner Group isn't much better.

 

[Holy Slapper]

For someone trying to carry water for Russia, you should probably pay attention to what Russia itself is saying. Russia has been upping its rhetoric for justifying genocide. There is absolutely no reason for what happened north of Kyiv.

Look, its war. Ukraine's hands aren't necessarily clean, sure. Them parading around prisoners early on is against the Geneva convention. I have seen reports that Ukraine has killed surrendering soldiers. Even then, it absolutely pales to the atrocities that Russia is committing.

Sure, hate the Azov Battalion. But here's the thing, the Wagner Group isn't much better.

They're worse. Their commander literally has Nazi tattoos on his neck.

 

[Snow Queen]

Feel like it's worth noting as it was not made public earlier this morning and his posts are still attracting attention, don't be expecting any replies from @OutOfBoose

 

[InCali]

OutOfHere.

It's weird how people who seemed sort of normal can go off the deep end. I remember one of the mods went sort of crazy around the time of the 2016 election.

There's value to having people bring another view point because it allows people to clarify any given situation, but, at some point, advocating or trying to whitewash what is clearly murder, goes beyond reasonable discussion.

 

[Fosterson]

Feel like it's worth noting as it was not made public earlier this morning and his posts are still attracting attention, don't be expecting any replies from @OutOfBoose

Good. War crimes denial should not be tolerated.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Unfortunately there were years of bad faith posts on the matter when it comes down to it. Referring to the Russian invasion of Ukraine as a special ‘military operation’ as the Putin government does is also quite troubling.

I do feel sad though when the site shrinks. Sure there’s an ebb and flow tied to the popularity of the current superhero content outside the site but it needs more new members nevertheless. I’ll always prefer messageboards over Discord and reddit and platforms like that.

 

[Holy Slapper]

OutOfHere.

It's weird how people who seemed sort of normal can go off the deep end. I remember one of the mods went sort of crazy around the time of the 2016 election.

There's value to having people bring another view point because it allows people to clarify any given situation, but, at some point, advocating or trying to whitewash what is clearly murder, goes beyond reasonable discussion.

There's a lot of either "Russian-troll-in-hiding" or useful idiots on various message boards these days and whenever Russia related stuff is discussed, they activate. There really is only one way to handle them, which is how they're handled on the Finnish message boards I read/post on. Immediate ban. They're not there to discuss but to derail the discussion.

 

[Holy Slapper]

 

[Iceman]

That is obviously one of the worst things of all but I doubt even Russia is ok with that - if they’ve arrested him then they aren’t supporting it, unlike all the other war crimes, rapes and torture which they seem to see as fair game. Of course it’s Putin who has created these lawless wartime conditions which leads to so many horrible things like this in the first place.

 

[Iceman]

Hungary, Tucker Carlson's authoritarian "utopia", is siding with Putin.

What a surprise.

Hopefully Hungary get booted from the EU/NATO asap.

 

[Iceman]

For someone trying to carry water for Russia, you should probably pay attention to what Russia itself is saying. Russia has been upping its rhetoric for justifying genocide. There is absolutely no reason for what happened north of Kyiv.

Look, its war. Ukraine's hands aren't necessarily clean, sure. Them parading around prisoners early on is against the Geneva convention. I have seen reports that Ukraine has killed surrendering soldiers. Even then, it absolutely pales to the atrocities that Russia is committing.

Sure, hate the Azov Battalion. But here's the thing, the Wagner Group isn't much better.

Yeah, those criticising Russia aren’t defending the Azov Battalion (hopefully they no longer exist once this is all over). That kind of 2 way perspective is sorely lacking on the other side where views are totally controlled and manipulated by Russian state efforts/bots/plants.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Thread by @olga_chyzh on Thread Reader App

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Associated Press - S&P downgrade indicates Russia headed for historic default

Business Insider - US intel believes Putin might use Biden's support for Ukraine to justify future interference in American elections: report

Putin’s Russia is already intervening for Trump yet again, with lies about bioweapons labs to be used against Russia in Ukraine and blaming Biden.

Here’s some more foreign interference:

The next CPAC is taking place in Hungary. Yes, that Hungary. Orban land. Putin's buddy land, along with Serbia. Very (anti-)patriotic to host your conference there. Where next - Moscow for American 'conservatives', flying the 'Z' flag? Their legislators went there before to celebrate the 4th of July at least one time before. What a joke.

Reuters - U.S. conservative conference with Hungary’s hardline leader reflects Republican divide

There isn't much a divide, unless you count the tiny minority sliver represented and occupied by Cheney and Kinzinger.

 

[Fosterson]

Yeah, those criticising Russia aren’t defending the Azov Battalion (hopefully they no longer exist once this is all over). That kind of 2 way perspective is sorely lacking on the other side where views are totally controlled and manipulated by Russian state efforts/bots/plants.

Also, the combined vote of three main far-right parties in Ukraine in 2019 was 2.1%.

Jus' sayin'.

 

[Fosterson]

That is obviously one of the worst things of all but I doubt even Russia is ok with that - if they’ve arrested him then they aren’t supporting it, unlike all the other war crimes, rapes and torture which they seem to see as fair game. Of course it’s Putin who has created these lawless wartime conditions which leads to so many horrible things like this in the first place.

I seriously doubt any of the Russian soldiers who murdered civilians in Bucha and elsewhere will ever be punished.

This kind of criminal behaviour is part of the Russian military's MO.

 

[Iceman]

I seriously doubt any of the Russian soldiers who murdered civilians in Bucha and elsewhere will ever be punished.

This kind of criminal behaviour is part of the Russian military's MO.

It's very unlikely unfortunately. They are purposely destroying evidence as they go much of the time too.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Marina Dubrova, an English teacher on the Russian island of Sakhalin in the Pacific, showed an uplifting YouTube video to her eighth-grade class last month in which children, in Russian and Ukrainian, sing about a “world without war.”

After she played it, a group of girls stayed behind during recess and quizzed her on her views.

“Ukraine is a separate country, a separate one,” Ms. Dubrova, 57, told them.

“No longer,” one of the girls shot back.

A few days later, the police came to her school in the port town of Korsakov. In court, she heard a recording of that conversation, apparently made by one of the students. The judge handed down a $400 fine for “publicly discrediting” Russia’s Armed Forces. The school fired her, she said, for “amoral behavior.”

“It’s as though they’ve all plunged into some kind of madness,” Ms. Dubrova said in a phone interview, reflecting on the pro-war mood around her.

 

[Iceman]

Putin's disinformation has had massive effects in Western democracies and heavily influenced the results of many major elections. We can't imagine how powerful that disinformation would be within Russia itself where they have complete control.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

It’s weird how I played through the Tales of Arise video game months ago and the second main area is this snowy population (perhaps inspired by the Soviets) where all the citizens are spying on each other and selling each other out to their oppressive government and it’s still happening in the real world in Russia.

 

[Marvolo]

Humans really are an incredibly dumb and self destructive species.