No, this girl getting drunk enough to pass out did not deserve what happened to her, no more than my cousin "deserved" to die for trying to buy beer underage.I agree that you need some common sense to avoid trouble. I definitely avoid bad neighborhoods, and if I find myself in one (which I have, trying to get to a bus stop to get home), I certainly wouldn't talk to strangers or start looking down at my phone.
But in this case, like I mentioned before, such guys wouldn't be relegated to the bad neighborhoods of the faraway gangland city. This happened in a neighborhood I'm familiar with. These boys came from upper-middle-class families like mine. It's probable they would have continued doing something I, or my classmates, would be doing. Such people walk amongst us. If not caught, they might grow up to be men who take advantage of women, but have enough money to keep it quiet and have more sense not to post it publicly.
Yes, she did something stupid. But she didn't deserve to be punished for it by being gang-raped and then being ****-shamed at her school. But I don't think that's what you're getting at.
The driving analogy should be a good one, but I don't think it's applied as reasonably when it comes to the predation of women. I got told by my female lawyer friend that if I was raped and wasn't wearing a bra (for a time I wasn't - I'm really flat up top and I can get away with it. Keep in mind I'd be wearing completely normal things like a non-low-cut t-shirt and jeans), that it could be used against me if I tried to pursue it criminally in court. Of course that's what a competent defense lawyer would try, but she believed that it would be something that would actually fly with some judges. That I was somehow "asking for it" if I merely wasn't wearing a bra.The best analogy I can come up with is learning to drive...
You are taught to be mindful of your surroundings - to always know where the other cars are, to be aware of people on sidewalks, bikes, etc; to try and be aware of what everyone is doing around you. This is to try and make sure you don't get into an accident, to avoid other people's bad driving. Sometimes being mindful helps you avoid a crazy driver and a potential accident, and sometimes you aren't paying attention and you dont avoid that crazy driver and he hits you. It's not your fault he hit you, but no one would ever say its ok that you weren't totally aware of potential dangers while driving. That same mindset needs to be applied to life.
It seems to go in extremes. People either blame the victim ("she was asking for it"), or people are so (justifiably) consumed by the attack itself that any constructive thought about the circumstances as a whole are either ignored, or miscategorized as putting blame on the victim. Again, I need to stress that attacks are NOT always avoidable, nor are they the fault of the victim, avoidable or not. I really feel parents need to instill in their children this sense of self-preservation/protection as much as they need to instill morals. Both lessons are severely lacking. Terrible things can happen, and if you put yourself in certain situations or are not mindful of a, b, and c, it makes it easier for terrible people to do terrible things. It's not about living in fear, but more so a fact of life. And this is true for everyone, regardless of gender.The driving analogy should be a good one, but I don't think it's applied as reasonably when it comes to the predation of women. I got told by my female lawyer friend that if I was raped and wasn't wearing a bra (for a time I wasn't - I'm really flat up top and I can get away with it. Keep in mind I'd be wearing completely normal things like a non-low-cut t-shirt and jeans), that it could be used against me if I tried to pursue it criminally in court. Of course that's what a competent defense lawyer would try, but she believed that it would be something that would actually fly with some judges. That I was somehow "asking for it" if I merely wasn't wearing a bra.
When I was growing up, I was always told by my parents to close my mouth (I have a big jaw and my mouth hangs open naturally) and to stop rubbing my stomach (my hands are always cold) because "guys would get the wrong idea."
I hate feeling like I'm always a potential victim just because I'm a woman. I hate it.
The driving analogy should be a good one, but I don't think it's applied as reasonably when it comes to the predation of women. I got told by my female lawyer friend that if I was raped and wasn't wearing a bra (for a time I wasn't - I'm really flat up top and I can get away with it. Keep in mind I'd be wearing completely normal things like a non-low-cut t-shirt and jeans), that it could be used against me if I tried to pursue it criminally in court. Of course that's what a competent defense lawyer would try, but she believed that it would be something that would actually fly with some judges. That I was somehow "asking for it" if I merely wasn't wearing a bra.
When I was growing up, I was always told by my parents to close my mouth (I have a big jaw and my mouth hangs open naturally) and to stop rubbing my stomach (my hands are always cold) because "guys would get the wrong idea."
I hate feeling like I'm always a potential victim just because I'm a woman. I hate it.
The driving analogy should be a good one, but I don't think it's applied as reasonably when it comes to the predation of women. I got told by my female lawyer friend that if I was raped and wasn't wearing a bra (for a time I wasn't - I'm really flat up top and I can get away with it. Keep in mind I'd be wearing completely normal things like a non-low-cut t-shirt and jeans), that it could be used against me if I tried to pursue it criminally in court. Of course that's what a competent defense lawyer would try, but she believed that it would be something that would actually fly with some judges. That I was somehow "asking for it" if I merely wasn't wearing a bra.
When I was growing up, I was always told by my parents to close my mouth (I have a big jaw and my mouth hangs open naturally) and to stop rubbing my stomach (my hands are always cold) because "guys would get the wrong idea."
I hate feeling like I'm always a potential victim just because I'm a woman. I hate it.
Oh, but you read of how rape victims get THEIR sexual history gone over with a fine-toothed comb in court all the time. As if it has anything to do with THEIR being raped in that particular instance. You bet the same thing wouldn't happen if someone had their car stolen. "Well Your Honor, he left his car unlocked 3 times last week, so clearly it was just a matter of time!""Asking for it".
How exactly do they convince a court of the possibility of one asking to be sexually abused by force against their will?
That's the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever heard.
Oh, but you read of how rape victims get THEIR sexual history gone over with a fine-toothed comb in court all the time. As if it has anything to do with THEIR being raped in that particular instance. You bet the same thing wouldn't happen if someone had their car stolen. "Well Your Honor, he left his car unlocked 3 times last week, so clearly it was just a matter of time!"
The only time this wouldn't happen is if the victim in question is a 6-year-old virgin. I bet if it was a 16-year-old (still a minor, mind you), they woud still try to find something.
But I appreciate all your sentiments here. Makes me believe in the male species.
The driving analogy should be a good one, but I don't think it's applied as reasonably when it comes to the predation of women. I got told by my female lawyer friend that if I was raped and wasn't wearing a bra (for a time I wasn't - I'm really flat up top and I can get away with it. Keep in mind I'd be wearing completely normal things like a non-low-cut t-shirt and jeans), that it could be used against me if I tried to pursue it criminally in court. Of course that's what a competent defense lawyer would try, but she believed that it would be something that would actually fly with some judges. That I was somehow "asking for it" if I merely wasn't wearing a bra.
When I was growing up, I was always told by my parents to close my mouth (I have a big jaw and my mouth hangs open naturally) and to stop rubbing my stomach (my hands are always cold) because "guys would get the wrong idea."
I hate feeling like I'm always a potential victim just because I'm a woman. I hate it.
Unfortunately, the same can happen in child abuse cases. But once it's determined that it did happen, it should be absolutely apparent that it shouldn't have.Not that I'm defending the sexism and idiocy that does exist in these scenarios, but in many cases, it's a "my word against yours" scenario. False rape claims DO happen. It's wise to try and understand the nature/history of both parties.
A 14-year-old virgin could still falsely accuse someone of rape. Just because someone's slept around some doesn't mean they're more likely to accuse someone of rape.Not that I'm defending the sexism and idiocy that does exist in these scenarios, but in many cases, it's a "my word against yours" scenario. False rape claims DO happen. It's wise to try and understand the nature/history of both parties.
Yep. The majority of normal men are capable of keeping it in their pants around an attractive women.Things like this basically send the message that boys can't control their own behavior, therefore girls have to restrict theirs.
A 14-year-old virgin could still falsely accuse someone of rape.
Just because someone's slept around some doesn't mean they're more likely to accuse someone of rape.
I do agree that drunken hookups are a big gray area (if neither party can consent, who's the rapist and who's the victim?), but I doubt that most of the cases that make it to court are anything like that.
People need to be taught to take control of their actions, period. Unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world, and we can't do whatever we want thinking everyone else is in control of themselves and on their best behavior. Is it a shame there are terrible people we have to protect ourselves from? Yes. That doesn't make it any less vital.Things like this basically send the message that boys can't control their own behavior, therefore girls have to restrict theirs.
The saddest part is the authorities didn't care until she killed herself and there was some media attention.
A real man would wait for the "yes" (and get that "Yes!!!")