15 year old commits suicide after pictures of her sexual assault appear online

[jacobed]

So what are these lowlifes looking at just a charge of rape right? Can they be charged with like manslaughter or something

 

[Spider-Who?]

I agree that you need some common sense to avoid trouble. I definitely avoid bad neighborhoods, and if I find myself in one (which I have, trying to get to a bus stop to get home), I certainly wouldn't talk to strangers or start looking down at my phone.

But in this case, like I mentioned before, such guys wouldn't be relegated to the bad neighborhoods of the faraway gangland city. This happened in a neighborhood I'm familiar with. These boys came from upper-middle-class families like mine. It's probable they would have continued doing something I, or my classmates, would be doing. Such people walk amongst us. If not caught, they might grow up to be men who take advantage of women, but have enough money to keep it quiet and have more sense not to post it publicly.

Yes, she did something stupid. But she didn't deserve to be punished for it by being gang-raped and then being ****-shamed at her school. But I don't think that's what you're getting at.

No, this girl getting drunk enough to pass out did not deserve what happened to her, no more than my cousin "deserved" to die for trying to buy beer underage.

These, and so many other victims of all kinds of crimes were at the complete mercy of their aggressors. Vary rarely does a victims actions justify the crime committed to them (I'm not talking about rape or murder here).

We should be mindful of our actions, especially young people, and unfortunately, young girls in particular. People don't like to hear something like that, because they automatically assume that it is an insinuation that they would otherwise be asking for something bad to happen (and therefore it be their fault). That isn't the case, however. It's about protecting yourself from others, pure and simple. Young, drunk girls are an easy target. They don't deserve what happens to them, but it happens. And like you said, bad people are not confined to fenced in locations. They're everywhere. And even a seemingly normal person can commit terrible acts in situations they would otherwise never do, which is why acting responsible with supreme dedication to self-preservation is so essential. This is not to say that every potential crime is avoidable (it's not), but steps can and should be taken ALWAYS to keep yourself from harm.

The best analogy I can come up with is learning to drive...

You are taught to be mindful of your surroundings - to always know where the other cars are, to be aware of people on sidewalks, bikes, etc; to try and be aware of what everyone is doing around you. This is to try and make sure you don't get into an accident, to avoid other people's bad driving. Sometimes being mindful helps you avoid a crazy driver and a potential accident, and sometimes you aren't paying attention and you dont avoid that crazy driver and he hits you. It's not your fault he hit you, but no one would ever say its ok that you weren't totally aware of potential dangers while driving. That same mindset needs to be applied to life.

 

[Anita18]

The best analogy I can come up with is learning to drive...

You are taught to be mindful of your surroundings - to always know where the other cars are, to be aware of people on sidewalks, bikes, etc; to try and be aware of what everyone is doing around you. This is to try and make sure you don't get into an accident, to avoid other people's bad driving. Sometimes being mindful helps you avoid a crazy driver and a potential accident, and sometimes you aren't paying attention and you dont avoid that crazy driver and he hits you. It's not your fault he hit you, but no one would ever say its ok that you weren't totally aware of potential dangers while driving. That same mindset needs to be applied to life.

The driving analogy should be a good one, but I don't think it's applied as reasonably when it comes to the predation of women. I got told by my female lawyer friend that if I was raped and wasn't wearing a bra (for a time I wasn't - I'm really flat up top and I can get away with it. Keep in mind I'd be wearing completely normal things like a non-low-cut t-shirt and jeans), that it could be used against me if I tried to pursue it criminally in court. Of course that's what a competent defense lawyer would try, but she believed that it would be something that would actually fly with some judges. That I was somehow "asking for it" if I merely wasn't wearing a bra.

When I was growing up, I was always told by my parents to close my mouth (I have a big jaw and my mouth hangs open naturally) and to stop rubbing my stomach (my hands are always cold) because "guys would get the wrong idea."

I hate feeling like I'm always a potential victim just because I'm a woman. I hate it.

 

[Raiden]

As a parent, news like this sickens me. Juveniles or not, they should be tried as adults, and locked away for life.

 

[Spider-Who?]

The driving analogy should be a good one, but I don't think it's applied as reasonably when it comes to the predation of women. I got told by my female lawyer friend that if I was raped and wasn't wearing a bra (for a time I wasn't - I'm really flat up top and I can get away with it. Keep in mind I'd be wearing completely normal things like a non-low-cut t-shirt and jeans), that it could be used against me if I tried to pursue it criminally in court. Of course that's what a competent defense lawyer would try, but she believed that it would be something that would actually fly with some judges. That I was somehow "asking for it" if I merely wasn't wearing a bra.

When I was growing up, I was always told by my parents to close my mouth (I have a big jaw and my mouth hangs open naturally) and to stop rubbing my stomach (my hands are always cold) because "guys would get the wrong idea."

I hate feeling like I'm always a potential victim just because I'm a woman. I hate it.

It seems to go in extremes. People either blame the victim ("she was asking for it"), or people are so (justifiably) consumed by the attack itself that any constructive thought about the circumstances as a whole are either ignored, or miscategorized as putting blame on the victim. Again, I need to stress that attacks are NOT always avoidable, nor are they the fault of the victim, avoidable or not. I really feel parents need to instill in their children this sense of self-preservation/protection as much as they need to instill morals. Both lessons are severely lacking. Terrible things can happen, and if you put yourself in certain situations or are not mindful of a, b, and c, it makes it easier for terrible people to do terrible things. It's not about living in fear, but more so a fact of life. And this is true for everyone, regardless of gender.

 

[KalMart]

The driving analogy should be a good one, but I don't think it's applied as reasonably when it comes to the predation of women. I got told by my female lawyer friend that if I was raped and wasn't wearing a bra (for a time I wasn't - I'm really flat up top and I can get away with it. Keep in mind I'd be wearing completely normal things like a non-low-cut t-shirt and jeans), that it could be used against me if I tried to pursue it criminally in court. Of course that's what a competent defense lawyer would try, but she believed that it would be something that would actually fly with some judges. That I was somehow "asking for it" if I merely wasn't wearing a bra.

When I was growing up, I was always told by my parents to close my mouth (I have a big jaw and my mouth hangs open naturally) and to stop rubbing my stomach (my hands are always cold) because "guys would get the wrong idea."

I hate feeling like I'm always a potential victim just because I'm a woman. I hate it.

"Asking for it".

How exactly do they convince a court of the possibility of one asking to be sexually abused by force against their will?

That's the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever heard.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

The driving analogy should be a good one, but I don't think it's applied as reasonably when it comes to the predation of women. I got told by my female lawyer friend that if I was raped and wasn't wearing a bra (for a time I wasn't - I'm really flat up top and I can get away with it. Keep in mind I'd be wearing completely normal things like a non-low-cut t-shirt and jeans), that it could be used against me if I tried to pursue it criminally in court. Of course that's what a competent defense lawyer would try, but she believed that it would be something that would actually fly with some judges. That I was somehow "asking for it" if I merely wasn't wearing a bra.

When I was growing up, I was always told by my parents to close my mouth (I have a big jaw and my mouth hangs open naturally) and to stop rubbing my stomach (my hands are always cold) because "guys would get the wrong idea."

I hate feeling like I'm always a potential victim just because I'm a woman. I hate it.

Any judge who is swayed by that needs to be fired, disallowed to ever hold any sort of job where women may or may not be present, and should himself be tried for sexual assault.

 

[Anita18]

"Asking for it".

How exactly do they convince a court of the possibility of one asking to be sexually abused by force against their will?

That's the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever heard.

Oh, but you read of how rape victims get THEIR sexual history gone over with a fine-toothed comb in court all the time. As if it has anything to do with THEIR being raped in that particular instance. You bet the same thing wouldn't happen if someone had their car stolen. "Well Your Honor, he left his car unlocked 3 times last week, so clearly it was just a matter of time!"

The only time this wouldn't happen is if the victim in question is a 6-year-old virgin. I bet if it was a 16-year-old (still a minor, mind you), they woud still try to find something.

But I appreciate all your sentiments here. Makes me believe in the male species.

 

[terry78]

^ 'Tis hard to be enthralled with **** and ass and still be respectful of the gender. We gotta be oxymorons like that.

 

[KalMart]

Oh, but you read of how rape victims get THEIR sexual history gone over with a fine-toothed comb in court all the time. As if it has anything to do with THEIR being raped in that particular instance. You bet the same thing wouldn't happen if someone had their car stolen. "Well Your Honor, he left his car unlocked 3 times last week, so clearly it was just a matter of time!"

The only time this wouldn't happen is if the victim in question is a 6-year-old virgin. I bet if it was a 16-year-old (still a minor, mind you), they woud still try to find something.

But I appreciate all your sentiments here. Makes me believe in the male species.

What about the rapist's history as well? How many rapes would you have in your sexual history.....if the answer is zero, then he's way up on you, 'cuz he's got at least one. 'History' comparison over.

If someone is 'asking' me to physically harm or murder them, directly or indirectly...am I somehow excused for doing it, regardless of either of our histories? Say someone did 'ask' for it, guess what....it's still the other person's fault for not ****ing refusing.

Ridiculous.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The saddest part is the authorities didn't care until she killed herself and there was some media attention.

 

[Mistah K88]

The driving analogy should be a good one, but I don't think it's applied as reasonably when it comes to the predation of women. I got told by my female lawyer friend that if I was raped and wasn't wearing a bra (for a time I wasn't - I'm really flat up top and I can get away with it. Keep in mind I'd be wearing completely normal things like a non-low-cut t-shirt and jeans), that it could be used against me if I tried to pursue it criminally in court. Of course that's what a competent defense lawyer would try, but she believed that it would be something that would actually fly with some judges. That I was somehow "asking for it" if I merely wasn't wearing a bra.

When I was growing up, I was always told by my parents to close my mouth (I have a big jaw and my mouth hangs open naturally) and to stop rubbing my stomach (my hands are always cold) because "guys would get the wrong idea."

I hate feeling like I'm always a potential victim just because I'm a woman. I hate it.

Things like this basically send the message that boys can't control their own behavior, therefore girls have to restrict theirs.

 

[Spider-Who?]

Not that I'm defending the sexism and idiocy that does exist in these scenarios, but in many cases, it's a "my word against yours" scenario. False rape claims DO happen. It's wise to try and understand the nature/history of both parties.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the rapist film the attack and pass it around school?

 

[KalMart]

Not that I'm defending the sexism and idiocy that does exist in these scenarios, but in many cases, it's a "my word against yours" scenario. False rape claims DO happen. It's wise to try and understand the nature/history of both parties.

Unfortunately, the same can happen in child abuse cases. But once it's determined that it did happen, it should be absolutely apparent that it shouldn't have.

 

[Anita18]

Not that I'm defending the sexism and idiocy that does exist in these scenarios, but in many cases, it's a "my word against yours" scenario. False rape claims DO happen. It's wise to try and understand the nature/history of both parties.

A 14-year-old virgin could still falsely accuse someone of rape. Just because someone's slept around some doesn't mean they're more likely to accuse someone of rape.

Sexual history doesn't really mean anything. We just think it does, and that someone who accuses someone of rape must be "mistaken" in some way. I do agree that drunken hookups are a big gray area (if neither party can consent, who's the rapist and who's the victim?), but I doubt that most of the cases that make it to court are anything like that.

A case like the one brought against Kobe Bryant is also a big gray area. When you're raped, you should immediately go to the hospital and get a rape kit done. Instead, she went home and then apparently wore dirty underwear containing another man's semen on it to the tests, compromising the results. At the very least made her case weaker, but it has nothing to do with her sexual history per se. The defense obviously jumped on it, though, because it proved there was reasonable doubt that she was violently raped, if she'd simply had multiple partners in a short amount of time.

I'm referring to multiple short-term relationships being mentioned in such cases, rather than a "well we can't trust the physical evidence because she had multiple partners around the time of interest."

 

[KalMart]

edit

 

[regwec]

Interestingly, the victim's sexual history is usually inadmissible as evidence here in England. There are some very tightly regulated exceptions (the crucial factor is the accused's actual belief in consent, assessed by a jury objectively- the exception might operate in a group sex situation where a woman consented to several men but had sex with one where consent was unclear), but we don't usually make victims relive the whole experience.

The European Court of Human Rights is trying to change this, on the grounds that it violates the accused's right to a fair trial- Article 6(3)(d) of the Convention.

Thoughts?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

That is disturbing, disgusting, despicable, inhuman, loathsome act of monstrosity, the three monsters deserve the hardest penalty they can get for that. Applying penalties and punishments could make scum like them at least second guess their decision

My condolences to the family of the poor victim, I'm very late, but I give my condolences to them for their loss, and condolences to everyone like her and their families. My condolences to your family Spider-Who?

People need to be aware of how hideous this act is, and why they must hold themselves and not become monsters, they should be of more service to their fellow man instead of releasing their wild desires
And as Darthphere said, parenting must be stern, a No from a parent needs to be a No to the progeny

I think rape victims will gain some benefit taking a lesson from the poor woman that inspired the story of "Girl with the Dragon Tattoo", she got raped by three guys when the book author saw her and didn't stop them, she didn't think it's the end of life and kill herself for it

Youtube member AngryBlackNerd did the right thing in his opinion of Michael Bay's Ninja Turtles by saying tampering with a franchise like that should never be called rape, he said it in a pretty nice way, well explained in showing how hurt victims of rape can be

 

[chamber-music]

Things like this basically send the message that boys can't control their own behavior, therefore girls have to restrict theirs.

Yep. The majority of normal men are capable of keeping it in their pants around an attractive women.

If you can't be around women you find attractive without forcing yourself on them then you need some serious mental help.

 

[Spider-Who?]

A 14-year-old virgin could still falsely accuse someone of rape.

Maybe not rape in the literal sense, but sexual assault, sure.

Just because someone's slept around some doesn't mean they're more likely to accuse someone of rape.

That wasn't my insinuation at all. I apologize if it came across as such. I'm merely speaking of understanding a person's sexuality - we all have our of "fingerprint" as it were of the hows and whos and wheres of sexual proclivity. Understanding this can help us better understand the vicitm's story, the attacker's inclinations, and in general, how to try and best avoid these situations.

I do agree that drunken hookups are a big gray area (if neither party can consent, who's the rapist and who's the victim?), but I doubt that most of the cases that make it to court are anything like that.

^^^ This is more of the type of thing I was referring to. These grey areas.

Rape is a terrible crime, and it is a terrible thing to be found guilty if you are in fact innocent. My point is that it's very important to get all the facts, even if we, at the time, consider them to be insignificant.

All that being said, I feel very strongly that the punishment for rape and sexual assault is way too lax.

 

[Spider-Who?]

Things like this basically send the message that boys can't control their own behavior, therefore girls have to restrict theirs.

People need to be taught to take control of their actions, period. Unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world, and we can't do whatever we want thinking everyone else is in control of themselves and on their best behavior. Is it a shame there are terrible people we have to protect ourselves from? Yes. That doesn't make it any less vital.

 

[NickNitro]

The saddest part is the authorities didn't care until she killed herself and there was some media attention.

Welcome to the media owning society......its a sad world we live in.

 

[X Knight]

stories like this really make me sick.......and angry.

 

[JewishHobbit]

A real man would wait for the "yes" (and get that "Yes!!!")

That's gotta be the best quote I've read today.