2012: A Monster Year? (box office predictions) - Part 4

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]384887[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]383343[/split]

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Oh, and Ted won't get close to the number one spot. In fact, I see it underperforming at the Box Office.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

You can get genius Bruce Wayne and still have him challenged. And having him struggle is natural because you want to build up the villain as being a powerful force. An uber Batman I think is hyperbole. Give me the Arkham series Batman and the Hush depiction of Bruce Wayne and I'm fine.

By the way, while we're on the subject of Batman, I'd prefer that WB do Batman Beyond next if it fits, but I know that won't happen.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Also regarding Marvin's post, I didn't kow Le Mis won best picture yet.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

You can get genius Bruce Wayne and still have him challenged. And having him struggle is natural because you want to build up the villain as being a powerful force. An uber Batman I think is hyperbole. Give me the Arkham series Batman and the Hush depiction of Bruce Wayne and I'm fine.

I'm not saying that Bruce Wayne can't have super-intelligence but Marvin's suggestion seems to be that of a Batman who rivals Tony Stark in Nolan's Universe.

That's just not gonna happen.

Nolan's Batman is grounded in a gritty realm. You're not going to witness Batman do anything like discover/create a new element or break the sound barrier. That said, Bruce still was trained by a secret society of ninja assassins and could engage 600 men in hand-to-hand combat. So he's got that working in his favor. t:

We'll assuredly see a more fantastical approach to Bruce Wayne in the relaunch however. I'm guessing WB still wants to adapt the Arkham games onto the big screen.

By the way, while we're on the subject of Batman, I'd prefer that WB do Batman Beyond next if it fits, but I know that won't happen.

Probably not, but I'd love to see it happen one day.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I always saw Bruce Wayne as the worlds greatest dectective, not an inventor.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I always saw Bruce Wayne as the worlds greatest dectective, not an inventor.

Technically, that's another gripe that the fans have. They want Bruce to be an inventor too.

 

[Evil Twin]

I'm not saying that Bruce Wayne can't have super-intelligence but Marvin's suggestion seems to be that of a Batman who rivals Tony Stark in Nolan's Universe.

That's just not gonna happen.

Nolan's Batman is grounded in a gritty realm. You're not going to witness Batman do anything like discover/create a new element or break the sound barrier. That said, Bruce still was trained by a secret society of ninja assassins and could engage 600 men in hand-to-hand combat. So he's got that working in his favor.

And has an array of advanced weaponry including a military grade ground vehicle, the world's most unconventional motorcycle, a flying vehicle, access to a network of mercenaries, a gliding cape which somehow works while only attaching at his shoulders, cell phone sonar access, etc. Oh, and he's fought a master mind who threatened a city with a massive microwave emitter.

I don't think you were going all there by necessarily calling the films "realistic", but Nolan's Batman universe is far, far less "realistic" than its reputation and far closer to comic book tropes than I think is credited.

 

[Evil Twin]

Also, for the weekend, I see Brave doing around $30 million.

For the rest, I'm thinking Ted is going to be around $25 million (Family Guy has its fans after all), Magic Mike around $22 million (as I'm sure Soderbergh isn't playing straight into expectations), and Madea around $20 million (the opening weekend for the Madea movies are on a downward trend). It wouldn't surprise me though if you jumble the order of those three.

Of those, it should be noted that Magic Mike is an instant win at the box office for everybody involved based on a tiny budget. In a year when a lot of big blockbusters are underperforming, this might be a model for more variety in the future.

In a random thought, has everyone noticed how much The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel has made on what must be a tiny budget? $38 million domestic (to date) and $120 million world wide. That's called hitting your niche.

 

[Marvin]

Dacrowe, what you described here

But we see him take out the head of the most powerful mafia family on his first day on the job, after bungling his second a bit, he comes back and takes out his first supervillain (Scarecrow) rather easily, shutting down the drug operation he has going at Arkham and evades the cops, before Ra's shows up and puts Batman in his first truly dire situation as a vigilante. In TDK, we see him take out Scarecrow again and also travel all the way to Hong Kong and plan a flawlessly executed extraction operation where he kidnaps the mafia's banker and brings him back to the GCPD which along with Dent's work would have effectively destroyed organized crime in Gotham City for years if Joker hadn't gotten involved. Even so, he manages to capture Joker despite the high stakes with a plan he hatched with Jim Gordon. If it were not for corrupt cops in Gordon's unit, the Joker would never have been in the position to escape and Rachel wouldn't have died nor Harvey become Two-Face.

The "mobsters" in the nolanverse are a joke by any stretch of the imagination, especially in begins. Casting Wilkins as a southern Italian mobster really set the tone for me. Out side of a shipping yard ambush, I respect that Nolan kept the story ark of batman taking down the mob relatively off screen(it more plausible to not show it in his universe). I mean nothing he did in that scene is beyond what spiderman would do but with more jokes. Scarecrow is another joke, especially in that second one and again what did he do that was all that impressive?(tdk's opening that is) Ambush them and run around like a clumsy idiot wearing a suit suit that's never looked dumber. I'll give it up he does do things beyond the average person, but almost never beyond the average hero and that's my gripe. What's more and you were keen to ignore it. He almost always has a helping hand. For times sake I'll JUST point to the Hong Kong extraction, he was literally just the muscle. Fear toxin, capturing Joker both times everyone, when it comes to the brain work it's almost never just him. And that's a shame because that's Batman's greatest asset(supposedly). He's more a reliant and a team player than anyone on the Avengers at this point and without the Bat family involved.

All in all, we see a very effective hero who works on a grander, more strategic scale than just taking out muggers and supervillains one at a time like Spidey or any of the heroes in the MCU.

What you seem to want is the "uberman" who is infallible like Bane appears to be. But that kind of writing is repetitious and boring to me. My favorite Batman stories when written well by the likes of Dini, Loeb, Moore, some of Miller and even yes, Nolan, avoids that for the better.

I conceit to the fact that yes those writers show a more "grounded" portrayal of the character than others but Nolan's takes it to a new level. I don't want anything "uber," someone mentioned Hush, perfect, the first 10 panels of that book have batman taking apart highly trained dudes like butter and without fox holding his hand doing it, but I'll be damned if he didn't spend the better part of that series on his face. Loeb took the time establish "uber bats" as some may call him, and then when his villain came around he worked around that. Nolan's falling short of that imo. I maybe not on purpose either. Like you said Nolan has bats dismantle organizations and what not but it's in his decisions and directions that it falls apart for me.

I look at it this way, it's easy to write a strong villain to a weak hero. All these thing we demand dramatically can all be achieved with an "uber" bat's. It just takes a good writer to figure it out. Part of what made joker so exciting was that he brought some of that "uber" vibe from the books. It's a shame the majority of people come away from batman's most popular film not talking about batman, but I can't blame them, he's just another guy in a suit but that's the better way isn't it...

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Batman mastered everything relating to crime at a near-genius level by training his entire youth with an obsessive commitment. Anything less is cheating the fans and the character.

There's no reason why Batman should be dumbed down or for him to have a smaller role in fulfilling his destiny as a legendary superhero.

You have your average superheroes, then you have Batman. The reason he has his unmatched reputation is not because he's simply an above average crime fighter with months of ninja training and a few pricey gadgets. No it's his raw ability and extensive training utilized by a genius intellect that makes him one of the most respected and feared super-heroes. Do it right or don't do it at all.

 

[Marvin]

I'm not saying that Bruce Wayne can't have super-intelligence but Marvin's suggestion seems to be that of a Batman who rivals Tony Stark in Nolan's Universe.

Come on Apex, I know you're above the old Strawman. I never once said anything of the sort, I mentioned how the producers over at Marvel didn't take anything away from that character in a an attempt to make him more "believable" they just elevated the world around him. I also mentioned what makes Tony special is how capable he is, it starts there and once you diminish that you've got garbage. Never said anything about rivaling the two characters.

That being said, I do recall a big part of the fun of Avengers(and what truly had it feeling like a comic) was seeing how smart Stark was...just saying.

That's just not gonna happen.

Nolan's Batman is grounded in a gritty realm. You're not going to witness Batman do anything like discover/create a new element or break the sound barrier. That said, Bruce still was trained by a secret society of ninja assassins and could engage 600 men in hand-to-hand combat. So he's got that working in his favor. t:

Is that what you think "I" want? A batman that spends his time creating new elements and land speed records? really?
I do like that you mention the 600 men hand to hand combat. I find it funny that Nolan actually has you believing that lol. It's the ultimate con. Just like how bats actually took down the ninja school, or wiped the floor with the prison thugs...and what's funny is that it's actually all there in the script but that damn direction always falls short.

I find it a bit oxymoronic that those fans who compare DC's heroes to Marvel's criticize them for being too 'God-like' (and preach Marvel's as more human and relatable), yet when arriving to Nolan's Batman, it's the complete opposite. Fans want the 'ultimate' Bruce Wayne who's a super genius that's able to go several rounds with a villain like Darkseid.

Gimme a break.

This is a problem. You mean to tell me you have a tally somewhere of "those" exact fans that have "criticized DC's for being too 'God-like' and in the same breath shoot down Nolan for doing the opposite? Sorry but you have no way of knowing that so it's mostly pointless to bring up such an account.

Batman's rogue gallery is filled highly-intelligent and/or physically imposing villains. Explain to me how Bruce is NOT going to struggle against a villain like The Joker or Bane. Nolan's Batman is always tested and brought to the brink of defeat and destruction, but he manages to outsmart and outmaneuver his opponents at the end of the day. And thats what's exciting about the character. He's not superhuman.

Because in the comics it works the same way but without belittling the prowess of the character. Like I've mentioned, if you were apply the same thinking to a good Sherlock story, it would be like having Sherlock be as dumb as Watson for the sake of realism and relatability. Sorry but I like Uber Sherlock it's almost the point of the character, it begs for an even more uber Moriarty and when written right and Uber experience all around.

 

[Marvin]

I always saw Bruce Wayne as the worlds greatest dectective, not an inventor.

Technically, that's another gripe that the fans have. They want Bruce to be an inventor too.

doesn't matter, cause Nolan will have you believe he's neither.

Also regarding Marvin's post, I didn't kow Le Mis won best picture yet.

It won it the minute the trailer dropped. It's in the bag dude.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

And has an array of advanced weaponry including a military grade ground vehicle, the world's most unconventional motorcycle, a flying vehicle, access to a network of mercenaries, a gliding cape which somehow works while only attaching at his shoulders, cell phone sonar access, etc. Oh, and he's fought a master mind who threatened a city with a massive microwave emitter.

I don't think you were going all there by necessarily calling the films "realistic", but Nolan's Batman universe is far, far less "realistic" than its reputation and far closer to comic book tropes than I think is credited.

I think you missed my point. I wasn't stating that Nolan's Batman is too 'realistic'. I simply made the case that we're not going to see Nolan's Bruce Wayne do anything fantastical -- although his intelligence is severely underrated.

I adore Nolan's vision however. His Bruce Wayne is much more fallible.

Anyway, moving on.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Marvin, we're not going to agree and obviously there's some miscommunication going on here but C. Lee has already been in here for derailment of the thread. We can't stay on this topic anymore.

 

[Marvin]

Sure, though I'm certain it will probably come up again.

Anyways on a similar note, I'm even more curious as to what type of characterization we'll be getting from Snyder's Superman. Snyders never been one to deviate from the more extreme characterizations in his adaptations...which I like. But at the same time Nolan will be around as well...

Anyone got an idea about ASM. I don't watch TV so I can't measure if it's getting any ad time. It's all over the place online and it's showing great stuff. Plus I think the audience is hungry for another big film(given this summer thus far). Having the Marvel name attached can only help.

 

[jacobed]

Sure, though I'm certain it will probably come up again.

Anyways on a similar note, I'm even more curious as to what type of characterization we'll be getting from Snyder's Superman. Snyders never been one to deviate from the more extreme characterizations in his adaptations...which I like. But at the same time Nolan will be around as well...

Anyone got an idea about ASM. I don't watch TV so I can't measure if it's getting any ad time. It's all over the place online and it's showing great stuff. Plus I think the audience is hungry for another big film(given this summer thus far). Having the Marvel name attached can only help.

Nolan has nothing to do with Superman besides making sure WB doesnt interfere

 

[DACrowe]

The "mobsters" in the nolanverse are a joke by any stretch of the imagination, especially in begins. Casting Wilkins as a southern Italian mobster really set the tone for me. Out side of a shipping yard ambush, I respect that Nolan kept the story ark of batman taking down the mob relatively off screen(it more plausible to not show it in his universe). I mean nothing he did in that scene is beyond what spiderman would do but with more jokes. Scarecrow is another joke, especially in that second one and again what did he do that was all that impressive?(tdk's opening that is) Ambush them and run around like a clumsy idiot wearing a suit suit that's never looked dumber. I'll give it up he does do things beyond the average person, but almost never beyond the average hero and that's my gripe. What's more and you were keen to ignore it. He almost always has a helping hand. For times sake I'll JUST point to the Hong Kong extraction, he was literally just the muscle. Fear toxin, capturing Joker both times everyone, when it comes to the brain work it's almost never just him. And that's a shame because that's Batman's greatest asset(supposedly). He's more a reliant and a team player than anyone on the Avengers at this point and without the Bat family involved.

Batman has always relied on back-up in modern comics. Sure it's primarily Robin, Oracle, Nightwing, Catwoman and Batwoman these days, but at the beginning of Post-Crisis Batman it's supposed to be Jim Gordon, Harvey Dent and Alfred. He's always had a group of helpers and alliances and I think the movies adapted that well. I get some are upset one is/was Rachel Dawes (a character Nolan created for the series) and Lucius Fox, who was never a hands-on ally, aren't in the comics, but it works in the films. Is Fox any different than Oracle is in modern Batman comics? I know, I know, Bruce Wayne relying on Fox means he isn't a master of chemistry, physics, biology engineering, and medicine as well as already being a master of almost all known martial arts, escape artistry, detective skills, architecture and tactical warfare, but I guess he can't win 'em all.

Seriously, I see Bruce as the leader of these disparate people in getting the job done, much like the comics. The only difference is they're not all the same people helping him that they are in the comics, but it's still the same idea. As for the rest of your points above, I like that Batman just took out the top mafioso by stringing him up at a jarringly obvious crime scene (drug smuggling). So often in comics whether they be Spidey/DD (Kingpin, Silvermane, etc.) or Batman (the Falcone family, Thorne, etc.) they know whose the crime boss and don't use warrants to track them down, but never stop these mobsters. It really is nice to see Batman just take him down that easily. Same with Scarecrow. You want Batman to seem uber, taking out Scarecrow at the beginning of TDK like it's business-as-usual has that intended effect.

I conceit to the fact that yes those writers show a more "grounded" portrayal of the character than others but Nolan's takes it to a new level. I don't want anything "uber," someone mentioned Hush, perfect, the first 10 panels of that book have batman taking apart highly trained dudes like butter and without fox holding his hand doing it, but I'll be damned if he didn't spend the better part of that series on his face. Loeb took the time establish "uber bats" as some may call him, and then when his villain came around he worked around that. Nolan's falling short of that imo. I maybe not on purpose either. Like you said Nolan has bats dismantle organizations and what not but it's in his decisions and directions that it falls apart for me.

I look at it this way, it's easy to write a strong villain to a weak hero. All these thing we demand dramatically can all be achieved with an "uber" bat's. It just takes a good writer to figure it out. Part of what made joker so exciting was that he brought some of that "uber" vibe from the books. It's a shame the majority of people come away from batman's most popular film not talking about batman, but I can't blame them, he's just another guy in a suit but that's the better way isn't it...

I really don't know what you're going on about. Batman got a lot of focus in TDK because of that magnificent ending. Do people talk about him as much as Ledger's Joker? No, because the Joker steals the show. Most of the Joker comics people remember is for what the Joker does not Batman. The Killing Joke? A Death in the Family? Joker Fish? Batman is always supporting to the Joker in those. So, people talk about him more and Harvey Dent as much as Batman in TDK? So what?

I don't think most people view Nolan's Batman as "just another superhero" in a superhero movie considering Nolan's films are widely considered the best the genre has produced. At least, TDK is. There is a level of awe about Batman in these movies that only Spidey in the Raimi films has come close to matching. MCU had to put six of them together to match the hype of a single Nolan Bat-film. I'd say the character is held pretty highly in pop culture at the moment. I think this all comes down to Nolan makes Batman very human and often in the comics, he's not. Some fans just don't like seeing that in the character. However, I do.

 

[MadVillainy]

I thought this was the 2012 Box Office thread not "The long winded posts about Batman thread"

 

[mclay18]

Back on track...

I still can't believe The Avengers has made so much money -- just by domestic numbers alone. Still, even with inflation and 3D surcharges, that's a LOT of money. I thought the movie would easily gross $400M prior to release, but it didn't cross my mind it would cross $500M and now the $600M mark.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I thought this was the 2012 Box Office thread not "The long winded posts about Batman thread"

Same here.

And you never know who win the oscars Marvin. Oscar winning movies have popped up out of nowhere, like the artist and the kings speech.

 

[DACrowe]

TKS and The Artist were both Weinstein Company films and ergo frontrunners.

I still recall Bill Maher said when TKS trailer dropped, "A biopic about the British royal family during World War II? Why even old the Oscars this year?!" Sadly, that was so true.

 

[:eek:]

'The Avengers' Hits $600 Million

by Ray Subers


June 26, 2012


Sometime today, The Avengers will become the third movie ever to earn over $600 million at the domestic box office. It is reaching that milestone on its 54th day in theaters, which is a week longer than it took Avatar (47 days). Including its foreign gross, the movie's worldwide total now sits at an incredible $1.44 billion.

The Avengers started its remarkable box office run with a record-shattering $207.4 million opening weekend. In a somewhat surprising turn of events, the movie's appeal reached well beyond the fanboy crowd, and it has held incredibly well in its eight weeks in theaters. Its debut currently accounts for 34.6 percent of its gross, which is a lower share than predecessors The Incredible Hulk (41.1 percent), Iron Man 2 (41 percent), Captain America: The First Avenger (36.8 percent) and Thor (36.3 percent).

The movie now holds 28 records on Box Office Mojo including opening weekend, opening theater average ($47,698) second weekend ($103.05 million), 10-day gross ($373.1 million), and fastest to $500 million (23 days). It currently accounts for over 32 percent of the total grosses for Summer 2012, and it has earned more than the next four movies combined (MIB 3, Madagascar 3: Europe's Most Wanted, Snow White and the Huntsman and Prometheus).

The Avengers continues to earn plenty of money, and this past weekend it eased 19 percent to $7.2 million. Based on its trajectory, it could wind up as high as $630 million, though that assumes its able to continue generating interest after The Amazing Spider-Man opens next Tuesday.

On Wednesday, The Avengers will pass the original run of Titanic ($600.8 million), though it won't eclipse Titanic's combined $658.7 million (including April's 3D re-release) unless it gets a major re-release at some point

 

[Marvin]

congrats to avengers...but will some studio actually release a summer hit already.
Summer 2007 really was an anomaly.