2013/2014 NFL Thread: Attack of the Matts - Part 2

[DoomsdayApex]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion (however wrong it may be) but watch your language. No need for comments like the "SEC nuthuggers," ones. PG-13 site.

Also, way to misinterpret (or perhaps more appropriately ignore) my argument. My argument has to do with the fact that McCarron has thrived in the SEC, which regardless of inconsistent quarterbacks, remains the toughest defensive division in college football. Furthermore, his style is far more fit for an NFL system than any of the gimmick QBs you are mentioning.

Yeah... right. Tell that to the mods that use the term to describe obsessive fanboys on this site.

No, my argument holds its ground because of you are using the SEC as a misguided measuring tool for success in the NFL. Luck, for example, ran a pro-style offense at Stanford (not in the SEC by the by) and he's been streaky with his accuracy and decision-making. Yet, Wilson and Kaepernick (who run 'gimmicky' offenses) are more consistent with their ability to make the throws in the pocket, and on rollouts.

Pro-Style Offenses in college are no more dependable than the talent that dictates it. AJ is a 4th round talent because he lacks arm strength, struggles to read defenses, stares down his targets, and doesn't have an ounce of pocket awareness. There isn't a single scout out there that would choose AJ over Bridgewater or Boyd.

This isn't 2001 pal. The FB is going extinct, a talented RB isn't a worth a top 20 pick anymore and dual-threat QBs are a dime a dozen.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Nut huggers isn't PG-13?

As for the actual debate, gotta side with Matt on this one. The SEC boasts some of the best defenses in the country, even when theyre bad, theyre better than the PAC 12, ACC, etc. McCarron isn't running a gimmicky option offense a la Tim Tebow. He's running a pro style offense, standing under center and chucking the rock. Personally, I don't know if he's first round material but I'll take substance over flash.

What's side-splitting here is that Florida Gator, Louisiana State Tiger, and Georgia Bulldog fans said the identical thing before Bridgewater and Boyd went on to shred and pick apart these far superior defenses with their arms.

 

[DirtyHarry]

No way in hell would I take McCarron over Bridgewater or Boyd. And lol....gimmick QB's

 

[DoomsdayApex]

No way in hell would I take McCarron over Bridgewater or Boyd. And lol....gimmick QB's

Anyone who says such a thing has a very low football IQ. 5 years ago, The Spread was considered a fad or gimmick. Now that Brady and Peyton have introduced it into their systems, it's considered legitimate. Where are the detractors? I can't hear them. The Read Option has been in the NFL for three seasons now. Defensive coordinators are still struggling to stop it. At this endeavor, the 'fad' argumentative point has little to no value.

RG3 might be struggling this season because he's now in a more traditional offense but what about Cam and Wilson? Both of those offenses have reduced The Read Option by 40-45%, and they're still very effective in the pocket. Kaepernick too. These so-called 'gimmicky' QBs are taking over the NFL. The prototype might have been Michael Vick, but this new gen of dual-threat QBs are better passers, and they will only continue to get better after Kaep, Cam, RG3 and Wilson are long gone too.

 

[Darthphere]

Hahaha, low football IQ. Ok John Madden, relax. The truth is, in this day and age you have no idea what you're going to get. Boyd and Bridgewater are just as likely to bomb in the NFL as McCarron. Kaep and Wilson were lets be honest, complete surprises if not they would've been drafted much higher by people who have very high football IQ's. And there's a difference between being a gimmick QB and being a QB running a gimmick offense.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Hahaha, low football IQ. Ok John Madden, relax. The truth is, in this day and age you have no idea what you're going to get. Boyd and Bridgewater are just as likely to bomb in the NFL as McCarron. Kaep and Wilson were lets be honest, complete surprises if not they would've been drafted much higher by people who have very high football IQ's. And there's a difference between being a gimmick QB and being a QB running a gimmick offense.

- Can they bust? Sure. Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington, David Carr and Blaine Gabbert did after being viewed as sure-fire prospects. Although Carr has an excuse.

- Wilson was not a surprise to anybody who watched him play at NC State. Russell was viewed as a mid-round prospect because of his size alone (not because of his mechanics and decision-making). Kaep I'll concede was a bit of surprise because of how raw he came into the NFL but his combine results and start against The Bears made his stock rise.

- And there's a difference between being an NFL-ready QB (hyperbolic phrase in this day and age) and a game manager running an NFL-ready offense. It's that simple. If you're a GM, you'd take Bridgewater over McCarron 10 out of 10 times without heistation (unless you got Belicheat or Harbaugh running your team).

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

If you fail to see what The Raiders, Browns (already did in fact lol), Cardinals, Buccaneers, Jaguars, Chiefs, etc would do for a shot at Bridgewater or Boyd or Mariota then... This isn't 2013's batch of QBs. Three QBs will be taken in the first 15 picks not because these teams are desperate but because these three are possible franchise QBs.

What I'm saying is that I don't see a Matt Stafford/Matt Ryan/Andrew Luck... hell even Cam Newton. < These quarterbacks are special and you could tell. Johnny Manziel is the only one so far that I can see being one of those special QBs.

Also... the Chiefs? Really?

 

[DoomsdayApex]

What I'm saying is that I don't see a Matt Stafford/Matt Ryan/Andrew Luck... hell even Cam Newton. < These quarterbacks are special and you could tell. Johnny Manziel is the only one so far that I can see being one of those special QBs.

Manziel shouldn't be drafted with anything higher than a 5th round pick.

Bridgewater and Boyd are by far superior QBs over this year's Geno Smith and EJ Manuel. Take Bridgewater's performance against Florida (a Top 20 defense in the nation last year) for instance. Teddy outwitted The Gators' D, and they threw everything at him (blitzes, disguised coverages, line shifts, etc) and he still went through them. That's what great QBs do. Bridgewater has the IQ, the mechanics (good touch on his passes) and the arm. Is he as athletically gifted as Cam Newton, or as cerebral as Peyton Manning? No. Does he have a fastball that's on par with Aaron Rodgers? Nope. Yet, he's a potential franchise QB with some fantastic intangibles. I'd take him over Romo, Vick, A. Smith, Palmer, Weeden, Pryor, Gabbert, G. Smith, Schaub, Freeman, etc if I were starting franchise tomorrow.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

Manziel shouldn't be drafted with anything higher than a 5th round pick.

Your opinion

Bridgewater and Boyd are by far superior QBs over this year's Geno Smith and EJ Manuel.

That has yet to be seen. Bridgewater and Boyd haven't played a down in the NFL.

I'd take him over Romo, Vick, A. Smith, Palmer, Weeden, Pryor, Gabbert, G. Smith, Schaub, Freeman, etc if I were starting franchise tomorrow.

That's not a fair comparison. These are established NFL QB's for the most part. There's no telling what you would have said about them before THEY were drafted.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Your opinion

It's an opinion that majority would agree with. Manziel lacks elite arm strength, possesses below average size for the position, shaky work ethic, lacks field vision, and questionable mechanics.

That has yet to be seen. Bridgewater and Boyd haven't played a down in the NFL.

I'm willing to go out on a limb based on what I've seen from both.

That's not a fair comparison. These are established NFL QB's for the most part. There's no telling what you would have said about them before THEY were drafted.

Established, and yet weak links. Like I said, I'll take my chances over a game manager or a QB that cracks under the pressure or a fragile QB or a washed up QB.

 

[Warhammer]

I'm not trying to argue for or against anything on this page, but in the defense of Geno Smith and EJ Manuel, I'd give them at least until January before I write them off. Not everyone can have a RGIII/Russell Wilson debut season.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I agree. However, I think the Jets need to get rid of Rex Ryan if they fail to make the playoffs. I think Geno just needs some better coaching.

 

[Immortalfire]

@ESPNNFL: "I think this validates the stupidity of the Browns front office" - Mike Ditka on Cleveland trading Trent Richardson

 

[MrMaooz]

The Patriots have extended Rob Ninkovich through 2016.

That guy deserves it, great player.

 

[MrMaooz]

Well, Lets go Patriots!

 

[MrMaooz]

Thank God, the Pats play Sunday Night next week.I really don't like streaming online.

 

[WalkingDeadMike]

This is going to be a LONG ****ing season. Ugh.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Can't the Bengals ever be consistent in a game? Score 14 points before Rodgers can even touch the ball. And then we lose the ball 3 straight possessions. I swear.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Make that freakin' four!

 

[jacobed]

Wow the vikings are officially the worst team in the NFL. Just ugh

 

[MrMaooz]

This is going to be a LONG ****ing season. Ugh.

Giants fan, I assume?

 

[MrMaooz]

Well after a slow start, Brady has been playing very well and is looking to be back in his groove.

 

[WalkingDeadMike]

Giants fan, I assume?

Yup, I bleed blue.

 

[Mr. Dent]

Knicks suck, Nets suck, Mets suck, Yankees suck, Giants suck, Jets suck. Being a New York fan must be suffering huh.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

It's an opinion that majority would agree with. Manziel lacks elite arm strength, possesses below average size for the position, shaky work ethic, lacks field vision, and questionable mechanics.

Things like this have been said about many successful NFL QBs before they were drafted/signed.

I'm willing to go out on a limb based on what I've seen from both.

Never assume that a prospect is better than a player who has actually been successful in the NFL. That kind of thinking is just dumb. (I'm referring to EJ Manuel when I say "successful in the NFL" by the way)

Established, and yet weak links. Like I said, I'll take my chances over a game manager or a QB that cracks under the pressure or a fragile QB or a washed up QB.

I'd take my chances with Andrew Luck/Matt Ryan/Matt Stafford/Sam Bradford. Not so much with Bridgewater or Boyd... at least not based on what I've seen so far. Things may change later on in the year.

Knicks suck, Nets suck, Mets suck, Yankees suck, Giants suck, Jets suck. Being a New York fan must be suffering huh.

You disappoint me Dent, you could have made a cool Dr. Seuss rhyme with that.

Knicks suck, Nets suck, Yankees suck, Mets suck, Giants suck, Jets suck, suck suck suck.