2013/2014 NFL Thread: Attack of the Matts - Part 2

[Lantern Venom]

Gore won this game I think.

The D finally got some penetration as well. Unless the Niners keep improving in that area, they won't make a serious run in the playoffs.

 

[Matt]

It's all absolutely true. And yes, Alex can do all the things people say he can't. Or did you miss Alex Smith -lead- the 49ers to their first playoff victory in almost a decade, and outplay Drew freaking Brees in the process?

I laugh at people making excuses for Alex Smith's successes. Is he a -great- QB? No. But he does the most important thing in football - win. Winning - it's more important than fantasy football #'s and more important than ESPN top 10 highlight plays.

He went 19-6 with Harbaugh in a season and a half with San Francisco, and is now 3-0 in Kansas City with that team -already- surpassing their win total from last season. Keep making excuses while Alex keeps winning.

Kaepernick displayed some severe concerns last year. And now this year those concerns are actually effecting the team's success. That doesn't mean that Alex Smith should have been kept over Kaepernick, but it does mean that Kaepernick has been very overhyped and is not some clear cut god sent savior sent down by football dieties to make mere mortal defenses bow before him. You say "wait until November", and I say, if Kaep keeps playing the way he has, by November our season will already be over.



I guess it's a good thing nobody said that.

You've just made the Tebow argument. You lose.

 

[Erzengel]

If someone is going to cling to Smith's out dueling Brees but ignoring his rather pedestrian outing against the Giants?

 

[Matt]

Exactly. Tebow slung his way past the Steelers in the 2011 playoffs. He threw for 300 + yards and 2 TDs. That doesn't make him an elite NFL passer. One game does not override a career of mediocrity. Even mediocre QBs have good games.

Alex Smith has only thrived in recent years because he has been used exclusively as a game manager. Neither Harbaugh nor Reid have allowed him to put his team on his shoulders and carry them, because quite frankly, he isn't capable of doing so.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

If someone is going to cling to Smith's out dueling Brees but ignoring his rather pedestrian outing against the Giants?

Yea, cuz 3 fumbles by Kyle Williams, 2 of them lost, one which gave the Giants the lead, and one in overtime to give the Giants the win, had absolutely nothing to do with the 49ers losing.

And that same Giants D didn't turn around and do the same thing to Tom Brady in the Super Bowl...

Exactly. Tebow slung his way past the Steelers in the 2011 playoffs. He threw for 300 + yards and 2 TDs. That doesn't make him an elite NFL passer. One game does not override a career of mediocrity. Even mediocre QBs have good games.

Alex Smith has only thrived in recent years because he has been used exclusively as a game manager. Neither Harbaugh nor Reid have allowed him to put his team on his shoulders and carry them, because quite frankly, he isn't capable of doing so.

Alex has had way more than "one good game".

22-6 over the past 3 seasons, including games where he out gunned and out performed Drew Brees (in the playoffs), Aaron Rodgers (in Lambeau), Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Matthew Stafford (2x), had a 21 point comeback, set season franchise records in 2011, set franchise records against the Bills, set NFL records against the Cardinals...

Yea, you're right. Alex sucks, he's totally Tim Tebow, and he has NOTHING to do whatsoever with his recent success.

I wish I was "just not capable" to Alex Smith's capacity.

Keep making excuses for why Alex Smith succeeds. He's not a great QB, and the 49ers should have moved forward with Colin Kaepernick, but the hate against Alex Smith is absolutely ridiculous. Dude failed for years because of incompetent coaching that didn't know how to run an offense or develop a QB. He finally gets competent coaching and he's something like the winningest QB in the last 3 years or something like that. Yea. Totally incapable. That guy f'ing sucks.

 

[Erzengel]

Yea, cuz 3 fumbles by Kyle Williams, 2 of them lost, one which gave the Giants the lead, and one in overtime to give the Giants the win, had absolutely nothing to do with the 49ers losing.

And that same Giants D didn't turn around and do the same thing to Tom Brady in the Super Bowl...

And the 1 for 13 on 3rd down conversions? Was that Kyle Williams fault too?

The game was tied, and he had 3 opportunities to march the 49ers into the Super Bowl and they ended in punts.

My point is you keep going back to that how great he was against the Saints, admit that he wasn't stellar against the Giants. And 2 fumbles and the game was still tied with over 8 minutes left and Smith had an opportunity to win the game.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Kaepernick lost the Super Bowl, so why is he in all these commercials?

 

[Venom'sDad]

He's a lovable loser

 

[Erzengel]

The QB is usually the face of the franchise. And I think I've stated earlier that most of them get commercials unless you're Roethlisberger or Romo.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Big Ben got issues that scare away advertisers, and Romo has no personality...dull as grass growing.

 

[Erzengel]

Mannings, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Cutler, Flacco, Kapernick, Stafford and even Vick all have commercials. Vick does insurance. I just find it funny that I see Jerry Jones do more commercials than Romo. Roethlisberger goes without saying.

 

[Warhammer]

It's all absolutely true. And yes, Alex can do all the things people say he can't. Or did you miss Alex Smith -lead- the 49ers to their first playoff victory in almost a decade, and outplay Drew freaking Brees in the process?

I laugh at people making excuses for Alex Smith's successes. Is he a -great- QB? No. But he does the most important thing in football - win. Winning - it's more important than fantasy football #'s and more important than ESPN top 10 highlight plays.

He went 19-6 with Harbaugh in a season and a half with San Francisco, and is now 3-0 in Kansas City with that team -already- surpassing their win total from last season. Keep making excuses while Alex keeps winning.

Kaepernick displayed some severe concerns last year. And now this year those concerns are actually effecting the team's success. That doesn't mean that Alex Smith should have been kept over Kaepernick, but it does mean that Kaepernick has been very overhyped and is not some clear cut god sent savior sent down by football dieties to make mere mortal defenses bow before him. You say "wait until November", and I say, if Kaep keeps playing the way he has, by November our season will already be over.

Keep making excuses for why Alex Smith succeeds. He's not a great QB, and the 49ers should have moved forward with Colin Kaepernick,

You are a 49ers fan who has moaned for weeks about how Smith was wronged while making point after point after point about just how well Smith played. Then you proceed to say how Kaepernick is playing like doo doo. And now here is the kicker. You say that it was the right choice for Harbaugh to have chosen Kaerpernick over Smith. What the f***?

 

[Themanofbat]

I'm a long time 49er fan... since SB XVI... and I love Alex Smith AND Colin Kaerpernick...

It's unfortunate that Smith never got his chance to shine during the first 6 years in SF, and once he found stability with the good coaching staff, he showed he could win games... and NOT "just" as a game manager... and I'm glad that he's found some early success in Kansas City... I genuinely hope he does really well there, and wherever he plays.

Colin Kaerpernick took us all by surprise last year, and I hope he has an AWESOME future with the 49ers... He's not even played a full season worth of regulation games yet, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt when he plays a bad game here and the there... as shown during the Colts' game...

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

You are a 49ers fan who has moaned for weeks about how Smith was wronged while making point after point after point about just how well Smith played. Then you proceed to say how Kaepernick is playing like doo doo. And now here is the kicker. You say that it was the right choice for Harbaugh to have chosen Kaerpernick over Smith. What the f***?

Because, as I said, my argument was never that Smith should have been chosen, it's that I find the irony and humor in Colin Kaepernick stinking up the join thus far this season, while Alex Smith is continuing to truck right along having the same success he had in San Francisco.

I find the humor and irony in everyone and their mother's trying to find every reason in the book to invalidate Alex Smith's success despite the fact that he has been one of the most successful QB's in the league the past 3 years.

Not everything has to be a harsh black and white. I can see that Colin Kaepernick has some real, true, legitimate concerns that I saw last year, but the team played well enough to hide them. This year, his shortcomings are actually having a detrimental effect on the team's results. I can see all that, and still see that Colin Kaepernick has more upside than Alex Smith.

But just because Colin has more upside doesn't negate the fact that outside of the Green Bay game, he has absolutely **** the bed this year and looked like garbage. Considering the success we had with Alex Smith the past few years, going back to any sort of QB struggles like this is a big time regression. We may come out of it better in the long run, but in the short term, the 49ers are a worse team right now for having Colin Kaepernick as QB instead of Alex Smith.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

And the 1 for 13 on 3rd down conversions? Was that Kyle Williams fault too?

The game was tied, and he had 3 opportunities to march the 49ers into the Super Bowl and they ended in punts.

My point is you keep going back to that how great he was against the Saints, admit that he wasn't stellar against the Giants. And 2 fumbles and the game was still tied with over 8 minutes left and Smith had an opportunity to win the game.

The 2nd fumble was in overtime and lost the game for the 49ers. The 49ers also had a great opportunity to take the lead late in the 4th, but the referees incorrectly called Ahmad Bradshaw's forward progress stopped, negating a turnover. Alex Smith played well enough to win, and while he wasn't great, to say that Kyle Williams' 2 turnovers WEREN'T the determining factor in that game is just naive.

I never said Alex was stellar in that game. But that defense also made fools of Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady during that post-season.

Funny you bring up Alex Smith's poor 3rd down conversions considering that Colin Kaepernick is looking just about as bad on 3rd downs this season.

 

[Warhammer]

Because, as I said, my argument was never that Smith should have been chosen, it's that I find the irony and humor in Colin Kaepernick stinking up the join thus far this season, while Alex Smith is continuing to truck right along having the same success he had in San Francisco.

I find the humor and irony in everyone and their mother's trying to find every reason in the book to invalidate Alex Smith's success despite the fact that he has been one of the most successful QB's in the league the past 3 years.

Not everything has to be a harsh black and white. I can see that Colin Kaepernick has some real, true, legitimate concerns that I saw last year, but the team played well enough to hide them. This year, his shortcomings are actually having a detrimental effect on the team's results. I can see all that, and still see that Colin Kaepernick has more upside than Alex Smith.

But just because Colin has more upside doesn't negate the fact that outside of the Green Bay game, he has absolutely **** the bed this year and looked like garbage. Considering the success we had with Alex Smith the past few years, going back to any sort of QB struggles like this is a big time regression. We may come out of it better in the long run, but in the short term, the 49ers are a worse team right now for having Colin Kaepernick as QB instead of Alex Smith.

I surrender.

 

[Erzengel]

The 2nd fumble was in overtime and lost the game for the 49ers. The 49ers also had a great opportunity to take the lead late in the 4th, but the referees incorrectly called Ahmad Bradshaw's forward progress stopped, negating a turnover. Alex Smith played well enough to win, and while he wasn't great, to say that Kyle Williams' 2 turnovers WEREN'T the determining factor in that game is just naive.

I never said Alex was stellar in that game. But that defense also made fools of Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady during that post-season.

Funny you bring up Alex Smith's poor 3rd down conversions considering that Colin Kaepernick is looking just about as bad on 3rd downs this season.

I'm not saying the fumbles weren't a determining factor. But the Giants had a 3 point lead. Smith got them down for a field goal to tie it and then had three opportunities to march it down field before that second fumble. They had to punt all 3 times. He sustains a drive and its a different story.

And I can acknowledge that the Giants defense stepped up, benefited from some plays (let's not forget how many calls the Giants were getting screwed on against the Packers). I'll even acknowledge that Smith played well against the Saints but I can't ignore his less than stellar outing. And if he did make it to the SB it would make a lot of people have a better opinion of him.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

And I'm not saying that Alex played amazingly in that game. But football is about more than just the QB, and for what it's worth, Alex Smith led an offense that was good enough to win. But the special teams failed and put the team in a hole to begin with. Yea, if the offense was playing lights out, the special teams failures wouldn't have been that much of a factor. But it's not always that simple. And as Colin Kaepernick shows this year, and as Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady fared against the Giants that same year, sometimes very prolific offenses can be shut out and teams have to find other ways to win.

Alex Smith didn't play great in that NFC Championship. But his efforts were not inadequate in that game.

 

[Erzengel]

I guess it depends on your definition of inadequate. I mean 46% completion? I wouldn't say it was "adequate".

Here's an example, Aaron Rodgers is the best qb in the league right now. However, if he were to retire now, he'd probably wouldn't be a HOFer. He has to do MORE.

I think that's the same case for Smith. He has to do more. Probably more than someone like Rodgers because he's not a highlight reel. Especially because of his contemporaries and younger QBs having success and especially because he was chosen as a 1st round draft pick.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Kaepernick lost the Super Bowl, so why is he in all these commercials?

Young, dynamic, and attractive to women. The last two SB winning QBs have been cogs on defensive teams rather than a walking highlight reel like Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I guess it depends on your definition of inadequate. I mean 46% completion? I wouldn't say it was "adequate".

Here's an example, Aaron Rodgers is the best qb in the league right now. However, if he were to retire now, he'd probably wouldn't be a HOFer. He has to do MORE.

I think that's the same case for Smith. He has to do more. Probably more than someone like Rodgers because he's not a highlight reel. Especially because of his contemporaries and younger QBs having success and especially because he was chosen as a 1st round draft pick.

Do more for what though?

I'm not trying to get Alex Smith in the Aaron Rodgers conversation. He's simply not that good. He's nowhere near "elite", he's nowhere near a top 5 guy.

But I'd like to see the guy actually get respected as a -good- QB, a QB who's seen as someone who can get the job done. Because that's what he does.

At the end of the day, there is only one stat that matters, W's & L's. And since 2011, Alex Smith has way more W's than he has L's.

He doesn't have the passing yardage of the elite guys. He doesn't have the TD's of the elite guys. But what he does have is efficiency #'s that are through the roof. He plays to an offense's strengths. He keeps his defense off the field with long, sustaining drives that milk the clock and keep moving the chains. It's not exciting. But it gets the job done.

Just to compare his record to those elite guys, since 2011 (of course, Peyton Manning missed the 2011 season, and the Saints got reamed in 2012 due to Bounty Gate, so consider that when looking at these records)

GB 27-8 (.771%)
NE 28-7 (.800%)
DEN 16-3 (.842%)
NO 23-12 (.657%)

Alex 22-5 (.814%)

From 2011 thru today, Alex Smith's win percentage is beaten only by Peyton Manning's Denver Broncos? Higher win percentage than Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady? I'll give an asterisk to New Orleans because Bounty Gate really effected them.

For comparison, Colin Kaepernick is only at .636% winning (7-4).

Toss in the post season:

GB 28-10 (.736%)
NE 31-9 (.775%)
DEN 16-4 (.800%)
NO 24-13 (.648%)
Alex 23-6 (.793%)
Colin 9-5 (.642%)

Even with post-season the guy is still behind only Peyton Manning in win percentage since 2011.

Does it matter -how- he does it???

And can you really say it's just the team he's on carrying him, when the team he's on now won all of 2 games last season, and the team he left is currently struggling?

I'm not asking for the guy to go into Canton. I'm not asking for people to call Alex elite. All I'm saying is, let's give the guy a little bit of credit here. He's doing what he needs to do, and he's doing what counts just as well as the best of them. Blame him for the NFC Championship loss if you must, but just keep in mind that in that span of time he's been in more conference championships than everyone on that list other than Tom Brady. Nobody else on that list (other than Tom Brady and Colin Kaepernick) have even been to a conference championship game in that span of time. And if he hadn't gotten pulled midseason last year, he likely would have had his team in 2.

Alex Smith might not be a Peyton Manning / Tom Brady / Aaron Rodgers / Drew Brees talent, and he's not even knocking on the Eli / Big Ben / Matt Ryan door either, but this guy is no Tim Tebow or Mark Sanchez. Dude isn't even a Rex Grossman, or a Trent Dilfer or a Brad Johnson. Dude is a -good- QB. Just don't draft him to your fantasy team.

 

[Erzengel]

Young, dynamic, and attractive to women. The last two SB winning QBs have been cogs on defensive teams rather than a walking highlight reel like Aaron Rodgers.

The year the Packers won they were a Top 5 defense. The year the Giants won they were ranked 27th in total defense, granted their defense came together in the last few games. The Ravens were a ranked 17th in total defense last year.

 

[Erzengel]

But I'd like to see the guy actually get respected as a -good- QB, a QB who's seen as someone who can get the job done. Because that's what he does.

At the end of the day, there is only one stat that matters, W's & L's. And since 2011, Alex Smith has way more W's than he has L's.

Do you know many QBs are disrespected despite their what they do on the field?

You mention W & L's are all that matters, and even with post season success, QBs like Flacco are criticized. One can say, he won games when it counted. Others can say he defense carried him. The same thing can be applied to Smith. I think more people would be bringing up Dilfer or Johnson if Smith won the SB in 2011.

Look at Romo, statistically a top 5 QB, but you have a lot of people critique his style because he's 1 and 5 in games that matter.

I think if Matt Ryan and the Falcons faulter this year, you'll start hearing louder criticism about him. Especially with the weapons he has.

Alex Smith might not be a Peyton Manning / Tom Brady / Aaron Rodgers / Drew Brees talent, and he's not even knocking on the Eli / Big Ben / Matt Ryan door either, but this guy is no Tim Tebow or Mark Sanchez. Dude isn't even a Rex Grossman, or a Trent Dilfer or a Brad Johnson. Dude is a -good- QB. Just don't draft him to your fantasy team.

I think he's better than a Tebow or a Sanchez but he does have an uphill battle to win in terms of praise and recognition. Fair or not. But it's not unusual, like I previously said, other QBs get criticized with doing more. Geez, even Peyton Manning who is arguably one of the greatest QBs of all time gets criticized for his lack of dominant post season success.

 

[Immortalfire]

Greg Schiano throws Josh Freeman under the bus again, making him inactive today.

 

[Dr. Evil]

This years "Why does the NFL do this every year" London game is between the Steelers and Vikings.