2013 Major League Baseball Thread: A Grand Finale

[runawayboulder]

He most likely deserved the length of the suspension but MLB has done a real s**t job presenting what dirt they have on him. They look as horrible as he does.

 

[jacobed]

They don't have present crap to the public. Everyone that agreed to a suspension was proof enough that they had quite a bit on everyone. A rod is a *****e and I'm glad he is gone. Cashman is in a room right now dancing with joy

 

[runawayboulder]

They don't have present crap to the public. Everyone that agreed to a suspension was proof enough that they had quite a bit on everyone. A rod is a *****e and I'm glad he is gone. Cashman is in a room right now dancing with joy

They do if they want to shoot down the notion that it's a witch hunt against A-Rod. The fact that they didn't says a lot to me and I think A-Rod is the biggest *****e to ever wear pinstripes, so it's not like I think he's innocent.

It's not like he's gone for good anyway. He'll be back at Yankees spring training in 2015 out of pure spite at that point.

 

[KalMart]

They don't have present crap to the public. Everyone that agreed to a suspension was proof enough that they had quite a bit on everyone. A rod is a *****e and I'm glad he is gone. Cashman is in a room right now dancing with joy

But you still have the right to ask for concrete proof, and if they cannot provide it, then of course you have grounds to fight the 'decision' legally regardless of what others chose. I'm a Yankee fan, don't really like ARod, but MLB is handling this very badly. The fact that he's an ass doesn't make that alright.

 

[jacobed]

Everything is sealed behind the court. How in the world did they handle this badly? They won. The neutral party that both parties selected said hey he is guilty and he will be suspended. They suspended close to 20 players linked to biogensis and only A Rod appealed it. What does that tell us? It says that they had some really solid proof against all these players. I don't understand how they handled this wrong, they did everything right and they won. Huge win for MLB today and also it sends a huge statement to all other players, you don't need to be guilty of a drug test for us to get you. There's always a paper trail.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Jacobed is right, MLB doesn't have to present anything to the public. This was an arbitration hearing, not a court case. Both sides present their evidence to the arbitrator, and the arbitrator alone, who then makes a decision. Everything done has complied with the CBA. I'm pretty sure MLB couldn't release their evidence publicly, which is why they had sent a letter to the Today Show the day A-Rod's attorneys were on offering to lift it for both sides. Of course, they rejected it because they know he's guilty. His storming out of the hearing and going to WFAN was completely staged.

A-Rod has a slim chance at getting a Federal judge to overturn this decision. It's rare that they will interfere with a labor agreement and his suspension has already been reduced. The next thing he'll do is bring a civil lawsuit against MLB, Selig, and potentially the Yankees. The fact that the MLBPA is giving in at this point is proof enough that A-Rod is guilty. You have to be really naive to believe A-Rod and his attorneys that there's a witch hunt for him.

 

[runawayboulder]

There's no winner in this. A-Rod looks like a slime and MLB looks hypocritical. They ignored the problem for years out of greed. No winners here...only losers.

 

[KalMart]

Jacobed is right, MLB doesn't have to present anything to the public. This was an arbitration hearing, not a court case. Both sides present their evidence to the arbitrator, and the arbitrator alone, who then makes a decision. Everything done has complied with the CBA. I'm pretty sure MLB couldn't release their evidence publicly, which is why they had sent a letter to the Today Show the day A-Rod's attorneys were on offering to lift it for both sides. Of course, they rejected it because they know he's guilty. His storming out of the hearing and going to WFAN was completely staged.

A-Rod has a slim chance at getting a Federal judge to overturn this decision. It's rare that they will interfere with a labor agreement and his suspension has already been reduced. The next thing he'll do is bring a civil lawsuit against MLB, Selig, and potentially the Yankees. The fact that the MLBPA is giving in at this point is proof enough that A-Rod is guilty. You have to be really naive to believe A-Rod and his attorneys that there's a witch hunt for him.

The big question is, did they present it at all? Are they provably right about it, or do they just have to assume they are, and is that enough for the arbitrator? Obviously tough to seek further analysis if that's what both sides agreed to, even if it's an incomplete process or what have you.

Everything is sealed behind the court. How in the world did they handle this badly? They won. The neutral party that both parties selected said hey he is guilty and he will be suspended. They suspended close to 20 players linked to biogensis and only A Rod appealed it. What does that tell us? It says that they had some really solid proof against all these players. I don't understand how they handled this wrong, they did everything right and they won. Huge win for MLB today and also it sends a huge statement to all other players, you don't need to be guilty of a drug test for us to get you. There's always a paper trail.

Quite possibly because they were shorter punishments, and it would cost the players less to just serve it than fight it if they were innocent (i.e. plea deal). What does it say when a player is going to this extent and cost to fight it? Either that he's innocent, or he's Lance Armstrong. But yeah, the decision was independently made and he's going to serve it anyway. So he'll have a year to cool down. But if there's a further way to prove that he didn't do it, he may sue MLB for the time/money lost or something.

 

[DirtyHarry]

There always going to be a bias no matter what type of voting system you do but by having so many voters that bias just gets crushed. Plus saying they're bias makes no sense and hasn't for a while, that complaint only works if someone was voted in that probably didn't deserve it which hasn't been the case for awhile. it's the hall of fame not the hall of very good. Only 4 deserved to go this year and 3 of them went. Le Batard deserved to lose his right, the only reason he did that crap was because he wasn't getting his way. He didn't make a point, he did nothing but just prove that he is immature and this is his way of whining because things aren't going the way he wants them to.

I agree with the guy that the system is a joke. Like others have said, there are people voting that don't even follow baseball. Also, Barry Bonds not being in is absurd. Greatest hitter I've ever seen.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

There's no winner in this. A-Rod looks like a slime and MLB looks hypocritical. They ignored the problem for years out of greed. No winners here...only losers.

Selig looks bad, but it's time MLB started enforcing this more strictly.

The big question is, did they present it at all? Are they provably right about it, or do they just have to assume they are, and is that enough for the arbitrator? Obviously tough to seek further analysis if that's what both sides agreed to, even if it's an incomplete process or what have you.

That's not a question at all. We know they were collecting evidence from reports such as speaking to Bosh. They had to present this evidence to the arbitrator that A-Rod was guilty of involvement in Biogenesis and that their suspension wasn't baseless. Both sides agreed to the arbitrator as well. A-Rod is guilty but is trying to run a smear campaign against baseball purely for the money that's at stake.

 

[KalMart]

Selig looks bad, but it's time MLB started enforcing this more strictly.


That's not a question at all. We know they were collecting evidence from reports such as speaking to Bosh. They had to present this evidence to the arbitrator that A-Rod was guilty of involvement in Biogenesis and that their suspension wasn't baseless. Both sides agreed to the arbitrator as well. A-Rod is guilty but is trying to run a smear campaign against baseball purely for the money that's at stake.

I still wonder how complete it was, and if the process allowed it to be disproven as it may in a court of law. Say just for for example you have written testimony but you aren't allowed to cross-examine, who knows? As far as money, ain't like he's broke, and the legal costs already probably exceed what he may or may not lose. Basically, by his fighting this, he's risking a lot more than just a year's salary.

But agreed that no-one comes out looking particularly good in this, and if Selig is on a mission to 'clean up baseball', then he should also openly address the times when he knowingly looked the other way. If baseball really is that important, then man up as well.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

The MLBPA has the power to fire the arbitrator after a decision and they haven't. Clearly, the process was complete and satisfied them. A-Rod had an opportunity to speak at the arbitration hearing, but all he did was throw a tantrum that Selig didn't have to appear and run to WFAN.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Anyone watch the 60 Minutes interview with Bosch last night?

I'm pretty much convinced that everyone involved with this entire thing is a scumbag. Although the only real hard evidence they seemingly have on A-Rod is a bunch of text messages.

An interesting read if you have a few minutes:
http://deadspin.com/60-minutes-presents-the-case-against-mlb-1500126093

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I still wonder how complete it was, and if the process allowed it to be disproven as it may in a court of law. Say just for for example you have written testimony but you aren't allowed to cross-examine, who knows? As far as money, ain't like he's broke, and the legal costs already probably exceed what he may or may not lose. Basically, by his fighting this, he's risking a lot more than just a year's salary.

But agreed that no-one comes out looking particularly good in this, and if Selig is on a mission to 'clean up baseball', then he should also openly address the times when he knowingly looked the other way. If baseball really is that important, then man up as well.

The problem is that this so called "independent arbitrator" isn't really independent and MLB's whole case rides on a witness (Bosch) they paid off. That's not a lot of credibility. A-Rod is a scapegoat here for Selig's ride into the sunset and it's shameful the way MLB has thrown him into the mud. Why didn't they treat Bonds, someone who did much more to cheat baseball than A-Rod has done, like this? Especially given both are likely equally as guilty.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Perhaps because Bonds didn't stick around and continue to lie and lie and lie. A-Rod isn't a scapegoat, and he isn't being thrown into the mud. He jumped in. He had his chance. He had his little bull crap confession, and had the chance to play the rest of his career clean in an era where they made it perfectly clear that PEDs would no longer be tolerated. A-Rod, a known user, would have to have the worst luck in the world to hook up with a guy clearly dealing in PEDs by accident.

The complaints about Bosch's credibility are ridiculous. You mean the guy that A-Rod wen to for illegal and shady dealings is a liar and scumbag? No way. This is no different then when the feds go after bad guys. They associate with bad guys.

Do we really need anymore evidence then everyone else taking the bans? I mean we have it. The texts are absolutely ridiculous, we know Bosch was providing PEDs, and A-Rod went to him for "nutrition". Come on.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Perhaps because Bonds didn't stick around and continue to lie and lie and lie. A-Rod isn't a scapegoat, and he isn't being thrown into the mud. He jumped in. He had his chance. He had his little bull crap confession, and had the chance to play the rest of his career clean in an era where they made it perfectly clear that PEDs would no longer be tolerated. A-Rod, a known user, would have to have the worst luck in the world to hook up with a guy clearly dealing in PEDs by accident.

The complaints about Bosch's credibility are ridiculous. You mean the guy that A-Rod wen to for illegal and shady dealings is a liar and scumbag? No way. This is no different then when the feds go after bad guys. They associate with bad guys.

Well, except that when the Government uses informants, they typically have a case that's more than just the "word" of the informant, and at least when the informant's testify in court it's under oath. Neither of those situations apply here.

Do we really need anymore evidence then everyone else taking the bans? I mean we have it. The texts are absolutely ridiculous, we know Bosch was providing PEDs, and A-Rod went to him for "nutrition". Come on.

So your evidence that A-Rod is a PED user is that Jhonny Peralta accepted a 50 game ban for PED's? C'mon now. Most of the rest of those guys indicted in this case were barely above average players with no legacy to protect and hardly the financial backing to put in a prolonged legal battle against MLB.

Look I'm not saying he's not a PED user, but if you're going to suspend someone for that long, you'd think you'd have some HARD evidence that he actually did them, not just text messages. Selig wants to make an example out of A-Rod, yet doesnt even have half the evidence he had on Bonds here.

Look at all the holes in MLB's case.

Why did MLB all of a sudden guarantee to protect Bosch from criminal prosecution? Why was Rob Manfred allowed to get away with using the fact that Rodriguez declined to take the stand as an indictment of his guilt? Why was Manfred not pushed on the identity of evidence-broker "Bobby" a guy who was convicted of a felony for stealing the Biogenesis documents?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, except that when the Government uses informants, they typically have a case that's more than just the "word" of the informant, and at least when the informant's testify in court it's under oath. Neither of those situations apply here.

There is more then his word. The text, the paperwork and the fact that A-Rod attempted to pay Bosch $50,000 to keep his mouth shut. Yeah, we know the money was actually in there.

And there must be some sort of legal standing when it comes to testimony in arbitration. There is a reason A-Rod ran out on the chance to testify.

So your evidence that A-Rod is a PED user is that Jhonny Peralta accepted a 50 game ban for PED's? C'mon now. Most of the rest of those guys indicted in this case were barely above average players with no legacy to protect and hardly the financial backing to put in a prolonged legal battle against MLB.

See above. Also, Braun.

Look I'm not saying he's not a PED user, but if you're going to suspend someone for that long, you'd think you'd have some HARD evidence that he actually did them, not just text messages. Selig wants to make an example out of A-Rod, yet doesnt even have half the evidence he had on Bonds here.

Look at all the holes in MLB's case.

Why did MLB all of a sudden guarantee to protect Bosch from criminal prosecution? Why was Rob Manfred allowed to get away with using the fact that Rodriguez declined to take the stand as an indictment of his guilt? Why was Manfred not pushed on the identity of evidence-broker "Bobby" a guy who was convicted of a felony for stealing the Biogenesis documents?

What was he going to do to Bonds?

MLB making a deal with Bosch counts, but A-Rod running out in his horrible attempt at appearing "appalled" doesn't? Ok. I am not exactly sure on the rules MLB and the Union agreed to, but everything seems to be above board, according to the Union. This is basically an expressive version of Judge Judy, and what goes down is binding. The players and MLB both know this.

And of what relevance is the identity of "Bobby"? His conviction actually works for MLB. It is proof what he stole is legit. Why would that be a bad thing?

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

There is more then his word. The text, the paperwork and the fact that A-Rod attempted to pay Bosch $50,000 to keep his mouth shut. Yeah, we know the money was actually in there.

And there must be some sort of legal standing when it comes to testimony in arbitration. There is a reason A-Rod ran out on the chance to testify.

yet none of those things equal him testing positive for a banned substance, at least not in the MLB CBA.

See above. Also, Braun.

They had a lot more on Braun than they do on A-Rod, including a failed sample, that he got away with the first time on a technicality.

What was he going to do to Bonds?

Ban him. Give him the Pete Rose treatment. No coaching, HoF, etc. Not to mention he was known to be dirty technically before he even retired.

MLB making a deal with Bosch counts, but A-Rod running out in his horrible attempt at appearing "appalled" doesn't? Ok. I am not exactly sure on the rules MLB and the Union agreed to, but everything seems to be above board, according to the Union. This is basically an expressive version of Judge Judy, and what goes down is binding. The players and MLB both know this.

And of what relevance is the identity of "Bobby"? His conviction actually works for MLB. It is proof what he stole is legit. Why would that be a bad thing?

He was convicted of stealing documents, that doesnt exactly prove any validity of those documents, just that he stole paperwork (business records) from a company.

The crux of MLB's case against A-Rod rests on evidence from a known felon "Bobby" (even before the Biogenesis stuff) and Bosch, who had claimed for months he was only a nutritionist, and who MLB had been threatening with criminal prosecution before the trial.

Look, A-Rod took steroids, there's no doubt in my mind he did so. But from a purely procedural standpoint, A-Rod's getting convicted in a Kangaroo Court.

 

[redfirebird2008]

It would be nice if the owners and players' union would truly get serious about cleaning up the game. We need blood testing, not pee testing. And more importantly, we need a steroids clause in every contract. The financial incentive to cheat is way too high. If a guy has a $150m contract and loses out on $5m of salary from suspension, that isn't too big of a deal.

Even A-Rod is getting a good deal. He loses out on $25m in salary for 2014, but the Yankees also paid him $28m in salary for absolute garbage performance in 2013. Plus they still owe him over $60m. In my view, if you get caught roiding the rest of your contract should be null and void.

A lifetime ban from the game seems appropriate as well.

 

[jacobed]

First offense full year ban, second offense lifetime

Hahahahahaha A Rod is suing, my house he needs to just stop. unbelievable how moronic he is

 

[Liam_H]

MLBPA would never agree to such a clause in their contracts. Sure they should do it if they want to clean up the game but they'll cite stuff such as false positive and potentially losing all their money etc. They'll just leave it up to individual teams of whether they want to give out huge contracts in the first place.

 

[jacobed]

Yeah I know they never would. I think This whole biogensis thing sent them a message. You don't need to have a positive test to get caught. There's always a paper trail

 

[Erzengel]

In terms of the HOF you don't even need a positive test.

 

[jacobed]

Thankfully you don't. Cheaters

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

In terms of the HOF you don't even need a positive test.

Logic doesnt typically apply to the HOF vote either.