Picard 3x09 "Vox" SPOILERS

[Sithborg]

"A devastating revelation about Jack alters the course of Picard's life forever - and uncovers a truth that threatens every soul in the Federation."

Good luck avoiding spoilers.

 

[Sithborg]

The episode is nostalgia bait, but goddamn, did it work.

 

[misjuevos]

Very disappointing

Spoiler

to be back with the same threat.

Yeah the nostalgia was good, but

Spoiler

I don't like that we always come back to the borg.

Well we know that Shelby passed up Riker after all.

 

[InvisibleWoman]

Yeah I'm annoyed that the big bad is exactly who I feared it was. I feel like it's been done so much that it doesn't even feel like a big deal anymore.

Spoiler

It's like "Oh look... it's The Borg... again"

 

[misjuevos]

Yeah I'm annoyed that the big bad is exactly who I feared it was. I feel like it's been done so much that it doesn't even feel like a big deal anymore.

Spoiler

It's like "Oh look... it's The Borg... again"

The funny thing is Picard never gave them another thought

Spoiler

until he was confronted by them in a couple episodes. Then the movie came along and now he has them in his head and can't get over them. Now every writer wants to include them in all the stories.

 

[Dave McFly]

Data kills me

Spoiler

"I hope we die quickly"

 

[SJD]

Great episode. Truly a wonderful episode dripping in nostalgia. And that big moment... BRAVO!

However...

Spoiler

I was very disappointed that Liam Shaw was killed. He was a fantastic addition to the Star Trek universe. As much as I want to see a Star Trek: Legacy show, my hope was Shaw would have continued to command the Titan with Seven of Nine as the first officer. I don't have much interest in Seven of Nine being in the captain's chair for a possible new series. Very disappointing.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Man, first the Mando episode yesterday and now this. What a time to be alive for scifi fans.

 

[DKDetective]

The episode is nostalgia bait, but goddamn, did it work.

Yeah, the Borg reveal is undermined by their overuse on Voyager and the previous seasons and the whole plan isn't the best writing and is basically a poor BSG ripoff (which is hilarious when you consider that Ron Moore was one of the best TNG writers and co-wrote First Contact), but to be fair, any last hurrah for the TNG crew needs to be either a Q or Borg story (or both like Q Who) for the right thematic relevance and weight. Those are the series' two most iconic antagonists.

Like I've said before I feel like the plotting is sloppy and rehashes Wrath of Khan with the whole estranged son angle. Also, the drawn out Changeling conspiracy and last minute Borg reveal do not mesh particularly well, even if the hints were there all along...

But the character writing has been great and it is enough for me to get a good amount of enjoyment out of this season. I still feel like Stewart is stuck in Xavier mode and his performance has lost a lot of its Picardisms, like the gruff fire, but there are some moments where the old magic comes back. And the rest of the cast is on fire. Spiner did an excellent job of showcasing all of Data's personalities and keeping the characters separate and now he is doing a killer job playing a new iteration of Data who is more human and emotional, while still not feeling completely human, but still feeling like the same character.

The funny thing is Picard never gave them another thought

Spoiler

until he was confronted by them in a couple episodes. Then the movie came along and now he has them in his head and can't get over them. Now every writer wants to include them in all the stories.

That is not remotely accurate at all. In the context of the episodic, reset everything at the end of an episode era of TNG, the Borg was very clearly portrayed as a lasting trauma for Picard right from Picard's hands shaking at the end of BOBW 2 and then doing an entire fallout episode about his trauma in Family. Thereafter, whenever the Borg reappeared, Picard's trauma was front and center, such as his uncharacteristic hostility and aggression towards Hugh when they find him. What more could they do in the context of an 1980s episodic series? Michael Piller pushed hard against the restrictions of Trek's formula at the time regarding Picard's trauma. There is a lot of BTS commentary from both him and Ron Moore about it.

First Contact simply took those elements and used the freedom of a feature length story to address them in much greater depth. In Family, Robert specifically told Jean-Luc that he would have to carry his trauma regarding the Borg and live with it the rest of his life. This is the culmination of that. The plotting and secret son angle are clunky ways of dealing with it, but thematically it makes a ton of sense and is completely consistent with how Picard's Locutus experience has affected him ever since Best of Both Worlds.

 

[misjuevos]

[QUOTE="DKDetective


That is not remotely accurate at all. In the context of the episodic, reset everything at the end of an episode era of TNG, the Borg was very clearly portrayed as a lasting trauma for Picard right from Picard's hands shaking at the end of BOBW 2 and then doing an entire fallout episode about his trauma in Family. Thereafter, whenever the Borg reappeared, Picard's trauma was front and center, such as his uncharacteristic hostility and aggression towards Hugh when they find him. What more could they do in the context of an 1980s episodic series? Michael Piller pushed hard against the restrictions of Trek's formula at the time regarding Picard's trauma. There is a lot of BTS commentary from both him and Ron Moore about it.

First Contact simply took those elements and used the freedom of a feature length story to address them in much greater depth. In Family, Robert specifically told Jean-Luc that he would have to carry his trauma regarding the Borg and live with it the rest of his life. This is the culmination of that. The plotting and secret son angle are clunky ways of dealing with it, but thematically it makes a ton of sense and is completely consistent with how Picard's Locutus experience has affected him ever since Best of Both Worlds.[/QUOTE]
guess you didn't see my spoiler, I do mention a couple episodes after.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Would the reveal have been 10x better if they didn't use The Borg last season? Yes.

Was i still excited as fork at the reveal? Yes

I just pray that they don't outright defeat the Borg in the finale since they are the ultimate villain and it should be a winning the battle but not the war.

If we do not get a proper trek celebration day i will be mad. The little bit we got in this episode had me giddy.

All of this would've made a really great movie that could've brought together various casts from the 90s shows coming together to save the day.

But either way still enjoying this season. I pray we get a Titan spin off w/Seven (not as Captain)

I was surprised that all these crews have an abundance of 18-24 yr olds that can overtake ships.

 

[InvisibleWoman]

One thing I noticed when re-watching the ep with Ro Laren in...

Spoiler

when Jack goes to the transporter room to watch a group of young crew members transport off the Titan, there is all that red matter and the vines in their transporter energy when they beam away... pretty clever looking back after this latest episode

 

[DKDetective]

One thing I noticed when re-watching the ep with Ro Laren in...

Spoiler

when Jack goes to the transporter room to watch a group of young crew members transport off the Titan, there is all that red matter and the vines in their transporter energy when they beam away... pretty clever looking back after this latest episode

And Ro didn't trust transporters electing to use a shuttle instead.

 

[Gaultheria]

Worf gets a new "We do not discuss it with outsiders" line.

Starfleet uses full-size starships to put on a drone show.

The assimilated ships are arranged in a formation resembling a string of Terran Empire insignia.

After such a dimly-lit season, I'm glad that they made the bridge of the Enterprise-D bright.

The Borg ship has what looks like a Xindi weapon at its core.

 

[Gaultheria]

I pray we get a Titan spin off w/Seven (not as Captain)

Shaw warned Hansen that if he was ever nice to her, she would know an imposter had taken his place. I'd say that there's reason to hope Shaw could be part of that spin-off.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Shaw warned Hansen that if he was ever nice to her, she would know an imposter had taken his place. I'd say that there's reason to hope Shaw could be part of that spin-off.

Nope.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Seeing the bridge of the Enterprise-D again had me emotional. It’s been so long seeing this crew back together.

 

[SJD]

Shaw warned Hansen that if he was ever nice to her, she would know an imposter had taken his place. I'd say that there's reason to hope Shaw could be part of that spin-off.

I wish I could believe that. Shaw is the MVP of this season. I’ll take him over a possible Captain Seven (and I like the character of Seven of Nine).

Bring on Star Trek: Legacy, sure, but I wouldn’t be as excited for it if we don’t have Shaw in it. Heck, Todd Shashwick even said he would jump onto a spin-off.

#LetShawLive

 

[Gaultheria]

#LetShawLive

An injection of nanoprobes saved Seven's life last season, so there's a way around death even if that really was Shaw.

Imagine Shaw owing his life to Seven and to Borg technology.

 

[SJD]

An injection of nanoprobes saved Seven's life last season, so there's a way around death even if that really was Shaw.

Imagine Shaw owing his life to Seven and to Borg technology.

Whatever works to bring that salty Captain back.

 

[Sithborg]

Having rewatched Dark Frontier recently, the plan the Borg had felt like an evolution of that, and I kind of laughed.

Good to have Alice Krige back to voice the Queen. Obviously not getting back into the gear.

10 years line didn't bother me, because Shaw made it clear that many don't exactly view Agnes' break away Borg to be THE Borg. Which is fine, not the first time we've had groups break off from the Collective.

 

[Teelie]

Spoiler warnings are already there so... So, yeah, they did go there.

Then also apparently ignored the entire second season to do it. I can't think of any real references to anything that happened after season one either. This Borg Queen isn't Jurati. Okay. So WTF is Jurati and her Borg hiding out at? Can't they help at all?

Oh, and their utter decimation of the space dock and Earth's defenses because Starfleet did the most security stupid thing possible and interconnected their ships together in a way that allows one compromised ship to infect others? Just like that Starfleet is run by morons.

The ass pull that is "pure organic" Borg which completely underminds their literal existence as a hybrid of organic and machine? And how is it Borg nanoprobes are suddenly infecting all those people with the veins showing up?

I was hoping Jack was something else, something not Borg, which are the equivalent of Daleks in Doctor Who. The big bad that just keeps coming back, keeps getting defeated and really only gets a new paint job to show they are different.

The third act with the Enterprise D reveal was almost worth an entire season pretending the previous entire season did not exist though. That was about as sensical as having the Borg pop up from nowhere seemingly in league with those altered Changlings and then fooling absolutely everyone in the galaxy about their existence. Then again, Starfleet is run by idiots in this decade...

And Shaw's redemption arc is sadly complete. I was hoping he'd live and be on this proposed Star Trek: Legacy spin offf and the actor even wants to be involved so maybe he gets an (not-so) evil mirror counterpart or a transporter clone or whatever hijinks they can think up. They took his character the full arc too. Total ******* to total hero and redeemed in nine episodes.

Despite all that, still an overall improvement on the first and second seasons. It's just too bad it had to carry their baggage as well which diminishes this season's arc a lot.

 

[Sithborg]

Its quite sad that, with all the amazing cameos, its unlikely we will be getting Denise Crosby to show up.

 

[Gaultheria]

Nice shot of the NX-01 refit above the 1701-D, from the same angle, as the 1701-D leaves the museum.

 

[Gaultheria]

Its quite sad that, with all the amazing cameos, its unlikely we will be getting Denise Crosby to show up.

I'm hoping they'll at least show Ambassador Sela watching from Spacedock as the 1701-D arrives after defeating the Borg, like with Rand in Star Trek III.