Discussion in 'The Defenders' started by KevTravels, Sep 20, 2017.
This wouldn't surprise me logically because the solo series have been on a general decline...except that I kept hearing Iron Fist broke some sort of record for viewership in its first week and also I am confused how Daredevil's second season had more viewers than the first.
Either way, I think they are getting what they deserve. Daredevil S2 wasn't good enough, the second halfves of JJ and LC weren't good enough and Iron Fist and The Defenders weren't good enough.
Also plausible: People want to watch all four series before seeing Defenders or they didn't like one of the characters so they didn't care about Defenders.q
The study looked at Netflix U.S. subs who watched at least one episode of each series.
I think this is a problem as well. Many might not have watched even one episode of the other 5 seasons.
Is it possible that Iron Fist hurt the momentum of Defenders among viewers who watched all the prior series?
It's also not factoring in international data.
Its also done by a third party, who is most definitely not Netflix. I am highly dubious of the data, thus. Its just the latest round of outsiders trying to grapple with that Netflix doesn't actually need to truck in traditional ratings. *They* know how many people watch their shows, they don't need to broadcast it to the world. . . or bend the knee to Nielsen.
This third party also is probably being paid by someone with an agenda.
Yeah but would you trust the numbers if they got put out publicly by Netflix?
Just for example, we never get actual firm concrete numbers from them at all. Unless they are available somewhere, and I just don't see them?
This is odd. Is it measuring percentage of viewers of Netflix? The Defenders was 8 episodes. I finished it the day of.
Yeah supposedly IF was the biggest hit initially. I'd imagine most folks dumped it mid-season run. Probably hoped it might improve and then finally gave up.
This is something that will need to be taken into account.
Until Iron Fist hit, I didn't recall people saying that they only liked the first season of Daredevil. Now people complain all the time about the second halves of Luke Cage and Jessica Jones and the entirety of Daredevil's second season and The Defenders. Critics tend to disagree. IGN didn't like Defenders but virtually everyone else did.
The idea that all five shows are different shades of horrible wasn't a sentiment that anyone was espousing until Iron Fist got ruined by Scott Buck. They were all completely watchable and Defenders wasn't bad either.
Defenders had a lighter tone and weak villains but that's not all that different from Guardians of the Galaxy. Remember how Ronan was one-dimensional and then killed off? Same goes for Defenders but nobody dumps on GOTG.
Like it or not, Iron Fist tainted the brand and did so in a way that many cases were retroactive.
That sounds bad. This isn't the streaming hit I thought it would be.
Most people love the two seasons of DD, and the first 8 episodes of JJ are as good as anything in these shows, but I will acknowledge that LC and IF were pretty average by comparison. The Defenders falls more in line with these shows, at times entertaining, but a failure in terms of living up to expectations (unless your standards are low) due to shoddy writing and the general feeling that Marvel/Netflix are resting on the rep of DD. I've lost a lot of respect for the TV department, and was never big on Loeb to begin with. He's just part of the old boys club over on Ike's side if the fence.
I think the Punisher and Runaways could break out big and make this all seem like a blip, but I'll no longer expect greatness from Marvel TV and Loeb, I'll just be happily surprised when I get it.
Glad Feige was able to break free of these people.
Here's what I understand based on what I've read:
Back when Marvel Studios was still part of Marvel Entertainment, Kevin Feige had to keep fighting Ike Perlmutter and his Marvel Creative Committee. Back when Captain America: Civil War was filming, Ike threatened to fire Robert Downey Jr, which forced Feige to ask Disney for help. Which resulted in Marvel Studios splitting off from Ike and his Committee. If you have seen the newer movies and rewatch the older Marvel movies, this split is clearly demonstrated by the new Marvel intro.
Which leaves us to Jeph Loeb and the Netflix shows. By all accounts, Jeph Loeb still has to answer to Ike and possibly his committee and we all know that when executives meddles on other people's development, it makes things worse more times than it improve things.
So far I have no problem with Jeph. Daredevil was great, as were Jessica Jones and Luke Cage . Hiring Scott Buck for Iron Fist was of course a mistake. But considering how Ike seems to be rumored to have a stingy personality, it is not far-fetch to assume that he pressured Jeph to hire Scott Buck again for The Inhumans, because he has a low-budget approach as well as fast delivery.
I think Iron Fist certainly hurt the momentum going into Defenders.
Also keep in mind that large parts of the country were kind of busy dealing with major hurricanes during this period.
Defenders' sins were dragging out a pretty nonsensical plot as much as it was carried over from Iron Fist and DD s2
+ the action wasn't as good as what came before.
The first 7 episodes of LC was among the best of the entire MCU tv series IMO. But it was very superhero-lite. Diamondback shows up and it dropped massive quality. But I only recall major criticism of LC this year. I don't remember many complaining in late '16 (months after it having dropped).
Well, there you go, the entire second half dropped off, which was then followed by Iron Fist. That's close to 20 straight episodes leading into the Defenders which were hovering around mediocrity. And then the Defenders added another 8 to that. The shows have been entertaining for the most part and I even liked Iron Fist A LOT more then the critics, but I certainly expected MUCH MORE from a Netflix show. I'm not alone in that. Just not good enough.
The irony is that I think Iron Fist probably would've had much better reception if it wasn't coming out on the heels of the other Netflix shows.
Well, sure, you can distrust numbers from Netflix, if they published them. The point is, you *don't* need to trust Netflix in this regard. . . because they *don't* generally publish numbers. Because they don't care what anyone in the public believes about their shows' viewership. They know how many viewers each one gets, and how much money its making by their metrics, and that's what counts.
I'm not even sure they need to tell *content providers*, even. They know how valuable a given show is to them, and can use that in setting their negotiating positions. If a network or studio thinks their show is worth more than it actually is, and demands a higher than allowable cost. . . well, the thing about a show having low value is that losing it doesn't hurt Netflix very much. They can play chicken just fine.
So its safe to say that MCU Netflix already peaked?
I agree, but some of it had to do with politics as well. The whole "controversy" was idiotic.