Activision: PS3 versions > 360 versions Across the board

[Zenien]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122612

I didn't say anything that would break any NDAs. You can't be much more vague than I have been. Any substantial stuff is being said (or speculated on for a better word) by others.

I'm free to talk about PS3 and Xbox hardware stuff. I just can't talk about specific titles.

As for the games, stuff running in 1080p on the PS3 look incredible. Everything on the 360 looked and played well, but it seems that the PS3 has the edge graphically across the board already (shader effects especially).

Well, speaking with a dev that was there he said they could just do more with the PS3's ability to handle shaders. There were some distortion effects that were credited (by the developer) to the PS3's shader abilities that were absent in the same 360 title. It wasn't game changing or anything, but it looked cool.

Well the NDA is up on one of the Activision titles and I can explain what I was talking about with the shaders. Here's a link to the Marvel Ultimate Alliance stuff: click

For those just interested in the shader talk, I can sum it up.

Graphically, the PlayStation 3 version looked the best of the three and sported some interesting distortion and blur effects that were absent from the Xbox 360 and Wii versions. Powerful attacks on the PS3 caused ripples of invisible energy to distort the area around the attack momentarily. When asked why this was absent from the 360 version, a developer told us that it was due to the PS3’s ability to handle shaders differently than what can be done on the 360 or Wii. Both the 360 and PS3 versions made use of impressive lighting techniques, particle effects, hi-res textures, and impressive character models while the Wii looks to be a mild step up from the current-gen efforts; though that is certainly to be expected at this point. Also, the PlayStation 3 version of the game was shown running in 1080p, which looked absolutely incredible and sharp while the Xbox 360 was running at a respectable 720p and the Wii version running at 480p. All three versions supported 16:9 widescreen modes.

 

[GuntherHermann]

1080p + better shader effects.

A resolution 360 can do natively and something that is a blatant lie (unified shaders > crap)? If that particuliar developer got more out of PS3's GPU, great, but that has more to do with the developers (lack of) talent than anything else. If you compare the best looking PS3 games to the best looking 360 games, the "real world" winner is pretty obvious, and it ain't the one you want

 

[Zenien]

Read what was said not just the 1080P.

Developers have already talked about the PS3 being 'better' with handling more shader effects. But USA is more flexible obviously pros and cons to each.

 

[GuntherHermann]

The thing is though, that's just laziness, it has nothing to do with any machine being better than the other. Look at what they're really saying here - the PS3 can do a heat haze effect, and 360 and Wii aren't powerful enough for it. Really? Because I've seen Kameo do it several times, and as a matter of fact I recall seeing it done on the Gamecube

This has nothing to do with PS3 > 360 hardware wise or anything like that. If you look at the numbers, and the games (from developers who are worth a damn mind you), the situation is actually the exact opposite. When they say "it's due to PS3 handling this differently", you may as well take that as "We were willing to put the work in for the PS3 version and not the others, despite it being a common place effect on last gen hardware". So yeah, PS3 > 360 across the board = false

 

[Zenien]

No Activsions PS3 games look better then their 360 games across the board. Which is a fact.

Both systems are directly comparable to eachother with strengths and weaknesses to them relative to the other, but they're pretty much equal across the board, and even Microsoft has said so. Obviously thr European Bosses assurance that multiplatform + games will look better on the 360 was a lie.

And hi Denton.

EDIT: And if they're using their resources ****tily across the board that doesn't alter the fact of the devs having more raw shading power on the PS3.

OWNZORD.

 

[GuntherHermann]

The PS3's GPU is dominated by the 360's. If Activision's games look better on the PS3, that's their own fault for being untalented, and there's probably a reason the PS3 sucks hidden in there somewhere as well.

And hello

 

[Fenrir]

The thing is though, that's just laziness, it has nothing to do with any machine being better than the other. Look at what they're really saying here - the PS3 can do a heat haze effect, and 360 and Wii aren't powerful enough for it. Really? Because I've seen Kameo do it several times, and as a matter of fact I recall seeing it done on the Gamecube

Yup, take a look at the effect the muzzle flash of Dom's gun has on the scenery, for instance.

 

[Zenien]

^
Activision may be lazy, but that is beside the point. The 360 is fully capable of rendering muzzle flashes.

Dear Gunthurr: I didn't realize it was you, what with the cunning disguise and all that.

 

[Fenrir]

^
Activision may be lazy, but that is beside the point. The 360 is fully capable of rendering muzzle flashes.

I wasn't talking about the muzzle flash.

 

[Zenien]

I know I know the environmental ambient lighting or whatever.

 

[GuntherHermann]

EDIT: And if they're using their resources ****tily across the board that doesn't alter the fact of the devs having more raw shading power on the PS3.

The 360's GPU is insanely better.

Spoiler

Triangle Setup
Xbox 360 - 500 Million Triangles/sec
PS3 - 250 Million Triangles/sec

Vertex Shader Processing
Xbox 360 - 6.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 2.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 16 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 1.5 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 12 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 8 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec

Filtered Texture Fetch
Xbox 360 - 8.0 Billion Texels/sec
PS3 - 12.0 Billion Texels/sec

Vertex Texture Fetch
Xbox 360 - 8.0 Billion Texels/sec
PS3 - 4.0 Billion Texels/sec

Pixel Shader Processing with 16 Filtered Texels Per Cycle (Pixel ALU x Clock)
Xbox 360 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 20.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 40 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 18.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 36 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 32 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec

Pixel Shader Processing without Textures (Pixel ALU x Clock)
Xbox 360 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 20.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 40 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 18.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 36 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 32 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec

Multisampled Fill Rate
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Samples/sec (8 ROPS x 4 Samples x 500MHz)
PS3 - 8.0 Billion Samples/sec (8 ROPS x 2 Samples x 500MHz)

Pixel Fill Rate with 4x Multisampled Anti-Aliasing
Xbox 360 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 4 Samples x 500MHz / 4)
PS3 - 2.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 2 Samples x 500MHz / 4)

Pixel Fill Rate without Anti-Aliasing
Xbox 360 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 500MHz)
PS3 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 500MHz)

Frame Buffer Bandwidth
Xbox 360 - 256.0 GB/sec (dedicated for frame buffer rendering)
PS3 - 20.8 GB/sec (shared with other graphics data: textures and vertices)
PS3 - 10.8 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for textures and vertices)
PS3 - 8.4 GB/sec (with 12.4 GB/sec subtracted for textures and vertices)

Texture/Vertex Memory Bandwidth
Xbox 360 - 22.4 GB/sec (shared with CPU)
Xbox 360 - 14.4 GB/sec (with 8.0 GB/sec subtracted for CPU)
Xbox 360 - 12.4 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for CPU)
PS3 - 20.8 GB/sec (shared with frame buffer)
PS3 - 10.8 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for frame buffer)
PS3 - 8.4 GB/sec (with 12.4 GB/sec subtracted for frame buffer)

Shader Model
Xbox 360 - Shader Model 3.0+ / Unified Shader Architecture
PS3 - Shader Model 3.0 / Discrete Shader Architecture

That's "theoretical" performance for both, so not real world by any means (the "using all 48 shaders for this one thing" numbers on the 360 for instance would never happen), but you get the idea. The PS3's GPU manages to beat it once

The fact is, developers do not have more raw shader power on the PS3, they have a less powerful GPU, less usable RAM in a more haphazard setup, and Cell is incredibly difficult to use in a way that will yield more performance than Xenon, and even then it's marginal difference. Activision was lazy, and that's it. If you put a great developer in front of a 360, and then in front of a PS3, same people, same experience, same game, same budget, same timeframe, the 360 version would look better. Fact. Also, the PS3 is large, and it's controller doesn't rumble. And Afrika looks stupid

 

[Zenien]

What you say does not equal what developers have said. :|

 

[GuntherHermann]

No, it surpasses it :|

 

[Zenien]

*Kills you* =|

 

[Fenrir]

I know I know the environmental ambient lighting or whatever.

The heat haze effects.

 

[GuntherHermann]

I can't believe you'd murder me

 

[Zenien]

Jump into Okami and I'll resurrect you with a doggy bone.

 

[GuntherHermann]

I don't think dead guys can jump

 

[Zenien]

If you can posess your keyboard to type, you can 'jump' into a video game, get on it.

 

[GuntherHermann]

Clearly the dead may type. But not jump

 

[SpiderFan17]

Forgive me if I'm not ready to jump onboard some comments on neogaf (the 2nd worst gaming forum on the net next to Gamefaqs), in a thread that has random unverified snippets of info in a thread that is mostly full of "he said, she said" info, that inevitably got locked. Perhaps if this were in a gaming blog (I mean, the guy did say the NDA is up) or publication, it may have more credibility.

Still, all this talk about 1080p gaming makes me laugh. How big of a percentage of people screaming at Microsoft fans "THE PS3 CAN DO 1080p!!" actually have a 1080p television? How many have the income level, much less plan to buy one. Failing that, how many people actually know how to research hdtv's, and how the quality is under certain conditions? If their research into buying products are anything like their grammar and spelling skills, I forsee a lot of people buying monitors instead of tv's, wondering where the cable input is, and then getting aggravated and calling their tv's gay.


Again, I'll definitely be behind these statements when they appear from the devs themselves on a reputable forum, or gaming website, or interview. Until then, do you really trust "some guy who says he is/knows the devs" on one of the ****tiest forums on the net?

 

[Zenien]

Neogaf IS a reputable forum, it's and Beyond3D are the two most insider heavy forums around. If you think Neogaf isn't reputable, prove it.

EDIT: THe tread got closed for entirely seperate reasons then the information not being apparently truthful.

 

[GuntherHermann]

Neogaf IS a reputable forum, it's and Beyond3D are the two most insider heavy forums around. If you think Neogaf is reputable, prove it.

Huh?

 

[Zenien]

*fashedit*

Spoiler

diesofembarassment:csad

Spoiler

I love the new spoiler system

 

[GuntherHermann]

Also, Beyond3D > NeoGAF, by a mile. Beyond3D has intelligent people. NeoGAF has me, for like 3 posts, and that's it.