Agatha Harkness series on Disney+

Discussion in 'Upcoming Marvel on Disney+' started by Prison Mike, Oct 7, 2021.

  1. Dark Raven It's not about what you deserve...

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    Calling it "Agatha: House of Harkness" is almost like them starting from Scratch again.

    Why not go with the name that already has a built-in audience and recognisability, "Agatha All Along"?
     
  2. Albright Eeh…

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    Nope, House of Harkness sounds more epic
     
  3. Venom 1988 formerly Ultimate_Venom

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    Agatha All Along makes sense as a surprise reveal song within the context of Wandavision. It wouldn't really make make sense as the title of a show. "Agatha All Along" what exactly?
     
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  4. Dark Raven It's not about what you deserve...

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    Surprise reveal? You spoilt the twist of WandaVision now! :argh:
     
  5. Silvermoth Krakoan native

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    House of harkness gives me a Pose vibe. I wonder if they’ll turn her into an anti hero?
     
  6. Dr. Evil Registered

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    Wasn't she a bit more on the heroic side in the comics?
     
  7. Silvermoth Krakoan native

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    More of a mentor / babysitter type role
     
  8. Albright Eeh…

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    Why do you get Pose vibes from that?
     
  9. Silvermoth Krakoan native

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    Pose is set in the 1980s during the ballroom culture scene where various teams, known as houses, compete against each other. So for example, house evangelista will compete against house decadence. This series is called house of harkness which reminded me of Pose
     
  10. Albright Eeh…

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    Ah ok, didn’t know that. Like those samba tournaments during brazil carnival?
     
  11. metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    I really hope they *don't* turn her into some kind of misunderstood anti-hero. Agatha was pretty dang evil in WandaVision, and was plenty appealing and charismatic as such. If you give her a show, let her be a villain protagonist.
     
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  12. SirStrangefolk Champion of Life

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    I don't think anything she did in WandaVision was fully villainous evil more than what someone like Wanda herself did with the Hex.

    A list of Agatha Harkness' sins:
    - She killed her coven when they attempted to execute her for practicing "dark magic".
    - She allowed Wanda's Hex to continue knowing it was hurting people, while she tried to figure out how Wanda was able to create it.
    - She controlled "Herb" to make Vision suspicious of "Geraldine" so that the latter wouldn't interfere in her investigation.
    - She killed Sparky to test whether Wanda could resurrect the dead.
    - She Controlled Ralph Bohner to get info from Wanda about the creation of the Hex.
    - She threatened the lives of Billy and Tommy to get Wanda to attack her so she could take her power (if you consider them alive, it's imo quite likely Agatha did not consider them living beings but rather unliving magical constructs).
    - She tried to take Wanda's power, because she believed that amount of power would be better used in the hands of someone like herself than Wanda, who she considered being in over her head.

    Clearly she's not a fully good, heroic person. She has dubious morals, yes. But imo Agatha is not supposed to be a straight up evil villain but more morally grey. I disliked that it was framed like she was a major villain in Wandavision, though despite what "Agatha All Along" seems to imply she wasn't all that responsible for the bad things happening in the show (that would be mostly Wanda and Hayward). It really seemed more like she was being cautious while unsure of how powerful and in control Wanda was while also not being opposed to using ethically questionable ways to obtain the information she needed (like controlling Ralph and killing Sparky). And while she clearly likes having power for herself, I can't say that taking it away from Wanda is a terrible evil given how Wanda was using it in the show.

    I think there is room in the MCU for her to fight larger magical threats like Salem's Seven, help out other mystics like Strange when it suits her and even form a strained mentor-mentee relationship with Wanda. Though that doesn't mean she and the heroes will see eye to eye on things. I see her more as a somewhat less moral version of the Ancient One (who was willing to draw power from the Dark Dimension to be more powerful in service of what she saw as the greater good), but I don't think she's even as evil as Zemo (who has killed numerous innocent people on a quest of revenge but was still able to work with Sam and Bucky when they required his help).
     
  13. metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    Let me turn that around:

    At what point did Agatha ever do a single good deed? Note, not "ruthless deed that you can maybe sort of attempt to justify someone doing in the abstract as the lesser evil". A flat out, inarguably good deed. Something to hint that she was motivated by more than self-interest and power lust.
     
  14. SirStrangefolk Champion of Life

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    Like I said, she's not a hero. She is mostly self-serving. But I don't think that means she has to be a "villain protagonist" or is "pretty dang evil" as you said. In fact, you said she shouldn't be an antihero but I think that's exactly what she should be in her own show. Wikipedia describes an antihero as

    I think Agatha as a character should lack conventional heroic qualities and attributes. That she should lack some of the idealism and morality that, say, Doctor Strange has. But that she shouldn't be outright evil/villainous and should do things that are morally correct, but also in part out of self-interest and not always following an ethical code that someone like Captain America would follow. I also wanted Loki to be an antihero in his show, but he became a pretty much a straight hero without much anti about it (especially coming straight out of Avengers).

    I think the number one "good" thing Agatha did so far was releasing the people of Westview from Wanda's control to convince Wanda that she was hurting them. Like I said she should've done that sooner, but I can see her feeling that was too risky before she fully understood what she was dealing with and how and why Wanda was doing it (which she finally figured out from going through Wanda's memories in the penultimate episode). I think the goal of this action was two-fold in that it not only saved the Westview residents but also could help convince Wanda to give up her power. And Wanda giving up her power would serve to both hopefully prevent another Westview incedent as well as give Agatha the power she wants. So like the antihero definition says, doing the right thing but also out of self-interest.

    Also keep in mind that we've only really seen 2 episodes of Agatha as herself, during which we mostly saw her really interact with her coven in Salem and with Wanda and her kids. That's not a whole lot to go off of.

    In the comics Agatha in her first appearance singlehandedly saves the Fantastic Four and young Franklin Richards from the Frightful Four. Subsequently she protected/warned/saved the F4 from danger on multiple occasions, she helped train Wanda, helped resurrect Wonder Man, etc. - BUT her solution to Wanda's kids being parts of Mephisto's soul is to let Mephisto take them back and just mindwipe Wanda so she isn't sad about it. When a young Franklin Richards starts to lose control of his powers she justs sends him away to the future to grow up without his parents without even consulting those parents. She betrayed and murdered her long time familiar Ebony because it was required for a ritual to do some precognition. And she used to be fine with some witches getting burned in Salem if it meant culling the weak from the magical community and have it grow stronger as a result. That's pretty much the balance that Agatha is known for, and that's more or less in the ballpark of what I want to see from the character going forward.
     
    #39 SirStrangefolk, Nov 23, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
  15. TheVileOne Registered

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    Maybe we can finally get Mephisto. What better way to make Agatha like an antihero than to match her up against Satan himself?
     
  16. Albright Eeh…

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    hope so, but doubt it if they want to include him for future releases that are also meant for asian markets
     
  17. TheVileOne Registered

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  18. AVEITWITHJAMON Badass Cloud

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    I thought she was great in WandaVision, but in the end she wasn't really a big threat, and for me we saw enough beginnings of the character there. Will probably watch the show but won't in a huge rush to see it.
     

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