Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD TV series for ABC - General Discussion - LEVEL 11 - Part 4

[Comics]

Sorry ignore me, i didnt read the following posts.

 

[Dark Raven]

Sorry ignore me, i didnt read the following posts.

Just put you on ignore.

 

[Shakel92]

I think Simmons has been brainwashed.

 

[Silvermoon]

I lurk nearly every day, but post infrequently.

That being said, I usually watch this show with my kid, but after the "surgery" scene yesterday, I'm going to preview them from now on. That was just appalling. I have never seen anything that gruesome on network TV before. I can expect it from Game of Thrones or something like that on cable, but this is a show that is a quasi-kid's show. I am extremely disappointed. I mean, I could go along with the Coulson brain surgery or the gory alien, since it furthered the plot, but this just seemed to be ridiculous.

I wasn't actually okay with the Coulson thing, it bothered me at the time. As much as they reran that part, I got used to it and could let it go. My point was the gore did not further the plot at all. He could have said, "Let's take a look inside" while holding a scalpel and the scene could have ended and we would have known exactly what he did. We would have gotten the point of what he was going to do, but we didn't have to watch it. We could have had Simmons read the file on Whitehall describing some of his gruesome surgeries, Bakshi state what he did, but we really didn't need to see it. It was beyond a PG-13 level. The context was pretty horrible too. It would be like a Kermit Gosnell movie being rated PG-13 while showing his ghastly activities of preserving fetal body parts, cutting off feet, snipping necks, etc. Some things aren't necessary to see in order to infer what is happening. I also think the blue alien was needlessly gory. They could have had him whole with tubes sticking out of him, but the 360 view of his entrails hanging out is also a bit much. The Whitehall surgery scene was just beyond the pale for me, especially on a show that is geared towards a younger demographic.

No, It was pretty much PG-13 level type stuff (in fact, I feel like I've seen even worse in some PG-13 movies) hence why this particular episode was rated (at least here in the states) TV-14-V (where as most of the previous episodes have tended to be TV-PG (for a mixture of Language and/or Violence with the occasional Suggestive Dialogue or Sexual Content thrown in)..... even The Magical Place where we saw Coulson's brain was TV-PG. So this one being TV-14 instead it was definitely going to be more intense. The TV ratings that pop up on screen at the beginning of the episode are there for a reason and like others have said, it's tied into the film series that have consistently been PG-13 movies.

Sorry your kid saw that, and I agree that maybe you should pre-screen the episodes (especially if that TV rating pops up as a bit higher than usual)

 

[giveyourself12%]

And X-Files' HOME episode? If you want disturbing network television, that one took the cake.

Yep, I was thinking of that particular episode when I mentioned The X-files. Definitely disturbing...as well as amusing. Sheriff Andy Taylor? lol I hope AOS continues with that kind of dynamic.

It depends on if they keep this kind of stuff up or not. I will if they tone it down.

Well I know we'd hate to lose you and your child as viewers but if anyone from Marvel/ABC is reading this PLEASE DON'T TONE IT DOWN!!

Maybe pre-view the episodes and when it gets too extreme according to your judgement just say, " Hey Buddy/Sweetie...close your eyes for a minute and let me fast forward/mute the volume here..."etc.

This is too good a show to just drop.

 

[Dark Raven]

How exactly does one preview the episode? Does that mean you have to watch it twice? Once by yourself and once with your kid? Or do you have to fast forward through the episode to see if there's anything too extreme before watching it at normal speed (but then you've spoiled yourself)?

 

[giveyourself12%]

How exactly does one preview the episode? Does that mean you have to watch it twice? Once by yourself and once with your kid?

That's what I used to do with my little sister.

Watch by yourself or with whomever you feel is age appropriate.Tape it/DVR it/online it/whatever...then watch it with aforementioned impressionable youngster.

If it's a great show (and this one is) and you really enjoy watching stuff with a particular person (like me and my lil sis back in the day), it's no hassle watching it twice.

 

[BoredGuy]

See, everybody's buggin on this autopsy scene
but I thought it felt fairly clinical and not all that gory
the most disturbing part was that they made it seem as though he started while she was still alive, but they didn't show that at all, there was no screaming, wasn't horrific, just some shots of surgery, basically

I dunno, maybe I'm just desensitized from all the Saws and Hostels, and even from watching Bones, which is occasionally much gorier than this scene was

 

[Silvermoon]

See, everybody's buggin on this autopsy scene
but I thought it felt fairly clinical and not all that gory
the most disturbing part was that they made it seem as though he started while she was still alive, but they didn't show that at all, there was no screaming, wasn't horrific, just some shots of surgery, basically

I dunno, maybe I'm just desensitized from all the Saws and Hostels, and even from watching Bones, which is occasionally much gorier than this scene was

True, but it does bring back to mind Whitehall mentioning to Raina back in Ep4 "I once operated on a woman on and off for a full week. The struggle really is keeping the patient awake." and makes one wonder if this is that operation he was referring to.

I agree with you though, I didn't find the scene any more disturbing than what gets shown on other shows I watch (CSI, Bones, Criminal Minds, etc...). As I mentioned, this particular episode was rated TV-14 and I felt that was an appropriate rating for the episode.

 

[HunBoy]

Not aging woman is

Spoiler

Skye mother?

 

[ajmccarrell]

True, but it does bring back to mind Whitehall mentioning to Raina back in Ep4 "I once operated on a woman on and off for a full week. The struggle really is keeping the patient awake." and makes one wonder if this is that operation he was referring to.

I agree with you though, I didn't find the scene any more disturbing than what gets shown on other shows I watch (CSI, Bones, Criminal Minds, etc...). As I mentioned, this particular episode was rated TV-14 and I felt that was an appropriate rating for the episode.

Yeah, it's just my kid has no desire to watch CSI, Bones, et al. Neither do I anymore. I used to really enjoy that kind of stuff, but after a while I couldn't watch it anymore because my thought life became really dark. Heck, even too much Law & Order: SVU bugs me after a bit, and that's a really stupid and cheesy show. I think anything that AOS can do right now to NOT lose anymore viewers would be best. They do need to remember that this show is a springboard for the movies that are basically family entertainment. They don't need to alienate the base demographic that makes their movies such hits.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Yeah…. to be perfectly honest, I've seen just as gruesome imagery on X-Files back in the day and Fringe. The latter show showed people blowing up, rotting from the inside out, and oozing from every pore.

And X-Files' HOME episode? If you want disturbing network television, that one took the cake. I've never watched Hannibal, but I hear they get away with some crazy stuff on there.

Inbreeders! As soon as I read 'X-Files' in your post I knew you were thinking of that one *shudder*

 

[Dark Raven]

Not aging woman is

Spoiler

Skye mother?

Her name is Sierra.

 

[Lilbaz]

Spoiler

Just thinking Skye's mum had a bit of a crap life. She gets captured by Hydra, then released by Agent Carter. Then has a baby with a nutcase that kills her village. Then gets captured by Hydra. Then gets chopped into pieces by Whitehall. (Does Skye's dad know?).

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Spoiler

Then gets chopped into pieces by Whitehall. (Does Skye's dad know?).

Spoiler

yeah, he found her remains and made the sly comment about 'revenge' at the end of the ep (can't remember what exactly he said but it implied he was out to get Whitehall

 

[marcvader]

By the way, people, HER NAME IS NOT SKYE!!!

 

[Lilbaz]

Spoiler

yeah, he found her remains and made the sly comment about 'revenge' at the end of the ep (can't remember what exactly he said but it implied he was out to get Whitehall

Cheers.

 

[BoredGuy]

By the way, people, HER NAME IS NOT SKYE!!!

I was waiting for him to follow that up with..

"...it's...... daisy"

and then I realized how silly that would sound to someone not familiar with the comics

 

[Dark Raven]

Spoiler

yeah, he found her remains and made the sly comment about 'revenge' at the end of the ep (can't remember what exactly he said but it implied he was out to get Whitehall

Spoiler

Agent 13/Sharon Carter can help him get revenge. She's an expert at it. If he brings her an infinity stone, she'll reply "Infinity x Infinity"

 

[CaptainWagner]

I was waiting for him to follow that up with..

"...it's...... daisy"

and then I realized how silly that would sound to someone not familiar with the comics

Well, ultimately they're going to have to reach that point where he reveals her real name, and honestly, I can't think of a way they could make it feel important to the GA. If they pair it with her discovering her powers, though, it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Silvermoon]

Yeah, it's just my kid has no desire to watch CSI, Bones, et al. Neither do I anymore. I used to really enjoy that kind of stuff, but after a while I couldn't watch it anymore because my thought life became really dark. Heck, even too much Law & Order: SVU bugs me after a bit, and that's a really stupid and cheesy show. I think anything that AOS can do right now to NOT lose anymore viewers would be best. They do need to remember that this show is a springboard for the movies that are basically family entertainment. They don't need to alienate the base demographic that makes their movies such hits.

They can be family entertainment, yes, but they're still PG-13 rated entertainment. The ratings are there for a reason - even the films themselves are not going to be suitable content for all children (if it were, we'd be seeing PG MCU movies, not PG-13) - it's up to parents to decide, that's why the ratings are there, same with episodes receiving their own TV rating as well and this one was appropriately rated.

Regarding 'alienating' - I can understand not caring for that type of stuff, there's nothing wrong with not liking it (my dad doesn't watch half the shows that me, my sister and my mom love because he doesn't like the subject material/finds them too dark). I don't think AOS having it though will affect a large number of viewers. With AoS, as some others have said, some problems people complained about during the first season (particularly the first half) was that the show wasn't going dark enough for some of the subject matter they were touching on. Now we're getting it - like the films, it's not going to be suitable for all children and parents need to use their discretion. Is it going darker and (dare I say) more 'adult' or mature going to turn some people off from the show? Yes/possibly. But at the same time it may also draw back in some viewers that were straying away.

IMO, The show should do what they feel they need to remain true to the story they want to tell, whether that's having both episodes that are on the lighter sides of things as well as having episodes that go darker, or maybe staying towards the darker side. That's my view.

Apologies if any of that didn't make sense (my brain seems to only be half working today - it seems to already want it to be the weekend *lol*)

 

[ajmccarrell]

They can be family entertainment, yes, but they're still PG-13 rated entertainment. The ratings are there for a reason - even the films themselves are not going to be suitable content for all children (if it were, we'd be seeing PG MCU movies, not PG-13) - it's up to parents to decide, that's why the ratings are there, same with episodes receiving their own TV rating as well and this one was appropriately rated.

Regarding 'alienating' - I can understand not caring for that type of stuff, there's nothing wrong with not liking it (my dad doesn't watch half the shows that me, my sister and my mom love because he doesn't like the subject material/finds them too dark). I don't think AOS having it though will affect a large number of viewers. With AoS, as some others have said, some problems people complained about during the first season (particularly the first half) was that the show wasn't going dark enough for some of the subject matter they were touching on. Now we're getting it - like the films, it's not going to be suitable for all children and parents need to use their discretion. Is it going darker and (dare I say) more 'adult' or mature going to turn some people off from the show? Yes/possibly. But at the same time it may also draw back in some viewers that were straying away.

IMO, The show should do what they feel they need to remain true to the story they want to tell, whether that's having both episodes that are on the lighter sides of things as well as having episodes that go darker, or maybe staying towards the darker side. That's my view.

Apologies if any of that didn't make sense (my brain seems to only be half working today - it seems to already want it to be the weekend *lol*)

I think some of it is that they are going for the comic book fans that have been there a long time to the exclusion of some of the more recent fans like myself. I got into the MCU after my son wanted to see the Sam Raimi Spiderman. I found I really liked it, after having dismissed superhero movies as the old Christopher Reeve Superman schlock.

Once we saw those as a family, and you'd have to agree they are pretty family friendly, we started seeing ALL of them as they came out. Pretty soon, my wife and I started liking the movies more than the kids! Anyway, there are a TON of us that we know of that watch these movies and the TV show with our kids that got into the MCU because of our kids. This is an absolutely massive demographic that I think AoS is starting to repel. I know of a couple of other parents at my son's school that watch this show with their kids that were shocked by this past episode, two whole families have said they will stop watching because it got too gruesome. I know one other family who stopped watching because of the sexual content, although I have to think they are repressed because this is one of the least sexual shows on TV.

AoS can't afford to lose more viewers. I know of two families already who are stopping now and who wrote to ABC complaining. If you want this kind of gore and gruesome sort of stuff, do it on cable or on one of the Netflix shows. This kind of stuff is fine for a Deadpool TV show for HBO or Showtime, but this show is based around a character (Coulson) who appeared in family friendly movies like Thor, Iron Man, and the Avengers. You expect a certain level of tolerable violence and general lack of gore from the movies when watching this show. I'm afraid that the people in my own circle are not the only people who will start to tune out. If this persists, I will tune out too, which is too bad because I stuck around giving the show a chance during the lull in the first season and have been encouraging everyone in my circle to watch the show. Now I don't feel like I can give it the endorsement I have been up until this past week. Now I have to give it a measured plug with a disclaimer about the gore. That's not a good position to be in when recommending a TV show to other parents. Very few are interested and sadly they may lose someone like me who is a dad who likes to watch Marvel films with his kids. I type this as I have my Coulson bobblehead on my desk that my son gave me.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

AOS having the balls to do something that not family friend is interesting......would bring some viewers back......they should not change and just warn the audience ahead of time the graphic may be appropriate for 13 years old.......

 

[ajmccarrell]

AOS having the balls to do something that not family friend is interesting......would bring some viewers back......they should not change and just warn the audience ahead of time the graphic may be appropriate for 13 years old.......

That is something I can agree with. A nice warning would let me know on certain episodes ahead of time. 90% of them have been fine, it's only been a couple that have been too much. 24% of the viewers of Marvel movies are families and that is a full quarter of their viewership demographics. I mean, if it were 10% or less, that wouldn't be a problem. But, this is 25%! 55% of Marvel viewers are couples on date-night. Unless you're sick, showing scenes like in the last episode doesn't exactly get most women hot and bothered. I've met a few though..... I would also venture to say that a large portion of the TV audience is going to be more kids, since this is only at 9:00PM and a lot of kids like comic books, cartoons and other stuff and this is free.

Were you disappointed that you didn't get to see Christian Ward burned alive, or that you didn't watch him shrivel up under the intense heat of a housefire? Actually, seeing the housefire on the news was a nice bit of subtle narrative and I think it enhanced Ward's general unhinged nature. Not showing a burned and mutilated Ward family didn't take away anything from the story and showing a woman getting dissected alive wasn't necessary either. There were lots of other ways of going about it that were less gruesome, but equally shocking. They could have cut to a distant shot of Whitehall operating, they could have showed blood hitting the operating floor, or show the intestines in jars of formaldehyde afterwards or something that was less disgusting than close ups of dissecting a live woman.

I don't agree that Marvel going in a less family friendly direction will bring viewers back though, that has never been the case anywhere. Not from what I am seeing and not who the Marvel audience is. Historically speaking, movies with higher ratings don't do as well as movies with more general ratings. There are always exceptions, but as a general rule, the more general the better. The ratings are still pretty anemic and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the last season. Saddened, yes, surprised, no. You have me and a couple of other commenters expressing shock and I saw a couple of comments on the episode reviews that also said they were going to stop watching over that scene. I "saw" <--------(see what I did there) no one saying, "oh yeah, I heard there's gore, I'm gonna start watching because of that!" on comment sections anywhere. They will lose viewership, not gain it.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think some of it is that they are going for the comic book fans that have been there a long time to the exclusion of some of the more recent fans like myself. I got into the MCU after my son wanted to see the Sam Raimi Spiderman. I found I really liked it, after having dismissed superhero movies as the old Christopher Reeve Superman schlock.

Once we saw those as a family, and you'd have to agree they are pretty family friendly, we started seeing ALL of them as they came out. Pretty soon, my wife and I started liking the movies more than the kids! Anyway, there are a TON of us that we know of that watch these movies and the TV show with our kids that got into the MCU because of our kids. This is an absolutely massive demographic that I think AoS is starting to repel. I know of a couple of other parents at my son's school that watch this show with their kids that were shocked by this past episode, two whole families have said they will stop watching because it got too gruesome. I know one other family who stopped watching because of the sexual content, although I have to think they are repressed because this is one of the least sexual shows on TV.

AoS can't afford to lose more viewers. I know of two families already who are stopping now and who wrote to ABC complaining. If you want this kind of gore and gruesome sort of stuff, do it on cable or on one of the Netflix shows. This kind of stuff is fine for a Deadpool TV show for HBO or Showtime, but this show is based around a character (Coulson) who appeared in family friendly movies like Thor, Iron Man, and the Avengers. You expect a certain level of tolerable violence and general lack of gore from the movies when watching this show. I'm afraid that the people in my own circle are not the only people who will start to tune out. If this persists, I will tune out too, which is too bad because I stuck around giving the show a chance during the lull in the first season and have been encouraging everyone in my circle to watch the show. Now I don't feel like I can give it the endorsement I have been up until this past week. Now I have to give it a measured plug with a disclaimer about the gore. That's not a good position to be in when recommending a TV show to other parents. Very few are interested and sadly they may lose someone like me who is a dad who likes to watch Marvel films with his kids. I type this as I have my Coulson bobblehead on my desk that my son gave me.

Honestly? I dont get why a kid would even want to watch AoS. Its not flashy and colorful, and very character driven more so than the films.... the show didnt do anything wrong at all. Its after the demographic that makes most sense... its also why its on at 9pm and not 8pm

This feels like the parents who went after toys r us for selling breaking bad figures in the adult collector toy aisles.... there's ratings on everything. Its a parents duty to parent their kids, not stores, tv channels, or movies. If it upset your child, im sorry I really am, but its also pretty common for parents who see an "iffy" rating to first view the subject matter first, thats the only way to be sure.