Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD TV series for ABC - General Discussion - Part 6

[Shikamaru]

I disagree with this statement 100%.

No problem.

I see no evidence of that kind of character favoritism anywhere in Whedon's work.

I stated two examples in the same post you're quoting.

I see no evidence that he's refused to acknowledge Hank Pym's importance.

I see it everywhere. He refuses to acknowledge the fact that Hank Pym is one of the most important Avengers...arguably the most important after the Big Three (Cap, Tony, Thor). Not wanting to use him is one thing, but pretending as if he isn't important is a whole different thing. His initial "beef" with Marvel for not letting him put Wasp in the first Avengers film also makes him come off as hypocritical, since Janet is apparently an important founding member but Hank isn't.

....or replacing Hank Pym with a different character in the adaptation of Ultron's origin story constitutes crapping all over the character.

Continuing what I wrote above...

Removing Ultron from Hank is like removing Hank's strongest character arc from Hank. Ultron is the reason why Hank considered himself a failure, why his marriage failed, why he always tries his best (as a way of atoning for his biggest mistake), etc. In return, Ultron himself is also heavily influenced by Hank and plays into the whole family dynamic, with Ultron considering him his father. Hank/Janet/Ultron are essentially a dysfunctional family.

With that taken away from him and his founding member status taken away and a lot of the roles he plays in the team being taken away and with him being brought in so late into the game, what reason is there to care for this Hank Pym if he's been "robbed" of everything? Will Hank fully still be who he is after all that? Will he be as interesting to watch as he would have been in the beginning, had he not lost all the previously stated things in the first place?

and I see no evidence that Geoff Johns is a talented writer.

I won't lie that I laughed at this.

In a way, I actually agree with you. I was specifically talking about his writing on the characters he really likes. I think Johns is good at writing his "pet characters" (Flash, Green Lantern, maybe Aquaman, and maybe one more). As in, the solo books of the characters he loves more than anything else. When it comes to any other character though...yeah. Batman especially should be kept as far away from Geoff Johns' writing as possible. Heck, further than even that.

 

[Shikamaru]

When people comparing this show to Arrow...are they comparing AoS to Arrow latest season, or the first ten episodes of Arrow? because the firrst ten episodes of Arrow were nothing to brag about honestly. It wasn't until the second season that Arrow the series started kicking asses and taking names

Actually, it wasn't until after season 1's mid-season finale.

Up until the mid-season finale of season 1, each episode is hit-or-miss, with there being more misses than hits. Overall, it is just ok/meh. Then after the mid-season finale, the show finally gets really good. It's not mindblowing, but it's pretty good. The episodes range from fantastic to mediocre, with the worst episode being just "that was ok, but pretty enjoyable". The writers finally figure out which direction to take the show in. Then in season 2, the show really gets amazing and the writers figure everything out.

In a nutshell, the first half of season 1 pales in comparison to the second half and season 1 as a whole pales in comparison to season 2 (so far).


However, there are a few things the first 9 episodes of Arrow had that this show does not:

1) Stronger characters - This show has no strong main characters other than Coulson. Mike Peterson has been reduced to a guest-recurring character (that is,if he'll ever even appear again). Arrow had at least 3 strong characters that the fans liked by the mid-season finale: Diggle, Quentin, and Malcolm. Oliver wasn't too great, but was still much better than any of the young characters in this show.

2) Pacing - Since the very first episode, the show had continuity, moved at a fair pacing and never dragged things out too much. The main problem with the first 9 episodes was the quality of the stories being told and the poor characterizations. SHIELD has to fix those and the pacing.

3) Cliffhanger and Mysteries - Right from the beginning, the show knew how to keep you watching it. Even if you hated the episode you just saw, the cliffhanger at the end would still make you curious to see the next one. The best example was when episode 4 ended with Oliver being caught on tape as the vigilante and being arrested. SHIELD has yet to do any cliffhanger on par. The mysterious surrounding the show were also more interesting - what was on the island, the mystery behind Oliver's parents, The "plan", etc. On the other hand, the mysteries regarding Coulson's recovery and May's past have been hurt by the stretched-out plot while the mystery behind Skye's parents has been hurt by Skye herself (and by that, I mean the writing).

 

[HunBoy]

Characters in other studios, f.e.: Deadpool could get a role in the Agents of Shield?

 

[Alex_Kidd]

Nope, Deadpool is in the "mutant folder" bought by the 20 Century Fox

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

Actually, it wasn't until after season 1's mid-season finale.

Up until the mid-season finale of season 1, each episode is hit-or-miss, with there being more misses than hits. Overall, it is just ok/meh. Then after the mid-season finale, the show finally gets really good. It's not mindblowing, but it's pretty good. The episodes range from fantastic to mediocre, with the worst episode being just "that was ok, but pretty enjoyable". The writers finally figure out which direction to take the show in. Then in season 2, the show really gets amazing and the writers figure everything out.

In a nutshell, the first half of season 1 pales in comparison to the second half and season 1 as a whole pales in comparison to season 2 (so far).


However, there are a few things the first 9 episodes of Arrow had that this show does not:

1) Stronger characters - This show has no strong main characters other than Coulson. Mike Peterson has been reduced to a guest-recurring character (that is,if he'll ever even appear again). Arrow had at least 3 strong characters that the fans liked by the mid-season finale: Diggle, Quentin, and Malcolm. Oliver wasn't too great, but was still much better than any of the young characters in this show.

2) Pacing - Since the very first episode, the show had continuity, moved at a fair pacing and never dragged things out too much. The main problem with the first 9 episodes was the quality of the stories being told and the poor characterizations. SHIELD has to fix those and the pacing.

3) Cliffhanger and Mysteries - Right from the beginning, the show knew how to keep you watching it. Even if you hated the episode you just saw, the cliffhanger at the end would still make you curious to see the next one. The best example was when episode 4 ended with Oliver being caught on tape as the vigilante and being arrested. SHIELD has yet to do any cliffhanger on par. The mysterious surrounding the show were also more interesting - what was on the island, the mystery behind Oliver's parents, The "plan", etc. On the other hand, the mysteries regarding Coulson's recovery and May's past have been hurt by the stretched-out plot while the mystery behind Skye's parents has been hurt by Skye herself (and by that, I mean the writing).

Stronger character-This may be the case in later episodes of Arrow, but definitely not the first ten episodes. Back then, i'd say that the characters in Arrow were pretty much your typical CW stock characters, at least personality wise, aside from Arrow and Quentin Lance IMO. That said, by the end of the first season, almost most of them became much stronger character.

If i have to chose between the characters in Arrow first ten episodes, and AoS, i'd choose AoS characters. Not because they are better written, but they interest me more-even Skye, compared to the faux dramatic CW type characters.

That said, i do agree with you that Arrow longer storylines is a MUCH better approach than AoS episodic approach, as it gives viewers extra reason to keep watching the next episode.

AoS is a problematic show, no doubt. Watching it every week keeps reminding me on how the Sarah Connor chronicles ultimately got cancelled.Bot shows got showrunners that couldn't- or wouldn't read the warning signs.

So...finger crossed that it may not be too late for them to turn AoS around

 

[HunBoy]

Nope, Deadpool is in the "mutant folder" bought by the 20 Century Fox

Tv show rights=Movie rights?

 

[Alex_Kidd]

I'm afraid yes.
Every fiction is of propriety of 20Century. There is not even cartoons about Xmen on the Disney channels and the "OAV" with wolverine like Wolvie vs Hulk are made before the Marvel Studios (Ironman 1 it's a Paramount Movie, not a Marvel Studios movie)

 

[epc11223]

I'm afraid yes.
Every fiction is of propriety of 20Century. There is not even cartoons about Xmen on the Disney channels and the "OAV" with wolverine like Wolvie vs Hulk are made before the Marvel Studios (Ironman 1 it's a Paramount Movie, not a Marvel Studios movie)

Wasn't wolverine in ultimate spider-man a few times?

 

[epc11223]

I think Disney does own the television/cartoon rights to Spider-Man and men which is one of the reasons why wolverine and the men was canceled. I'm pretty sure, but could be mistaken.

 

[Silvermoon]

If I understand correctly (though I admit I might not) animated rights are different from the live action tv show rights. So Coulson, Wolverine, etc... could be a part of and show up in Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon (you get a lot more character crossovers in the animated series), but it can't happen in live action

Even if for some reason the live tv rights weren't different and characters that other studios have film rights to could be used in a Marvel Studios tv show, I think it's unlikely they would. AoS takes place in the same universe as the movie universe and so they wouldn't use characters that couldn't theoretically be a part of the movies down the road.

Hope that made sense (sorry if it didn't, it is a Monday morning after all)

 

[Vartha]

Picked this up over the weekend at the comic shop. Avengers Assembled is the packaging tho, not the show

 

[Endeavor]

Wasn't wolverine in ultimate spider-man a few times?

Animation is different.

Marvel/Disney own all their characters as far as animation is concerned. But for live-action that is not the case, even on TV.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

(Ironman 1 it's a Paramount Movie, not a Marvel Studios movie)

sorry, but that's wrong. Paramount was just the distributor, the producing studio was MS. smaller movie studios sometimes need a bigger studio as a partner for distribution, so Paramount got the rights to that.

 

[Xeno]

Reposted here for those who may have missed it: Joe Quesada and Paul Mounts finally gave Fitz his monkey (as a birthday present for Iain de Caestecker).

 

[metaphysician]

I don't think its that live action TV and movie are the same. Rather, its the idea that a live action TV show infringes on the good faith of a contract, in one way or another ( like implying they are part of the same franchise ).

So, Marvel probably *does* have the rights to make an X-Men TV show. . . but Fox would definitely sue if they tried to make one, on the grounds that it "devalues" the license they bought in good faith. Even though I think Marvel would win in the end ( note that they actually won the preliminary lawsuit in the old Mutant X case, even though that one was a much more abusive example ), it'd cost them a ton of money they don't feel like spending.

 

[Ant-manic]

I think that Victoria Hand will be a "inside" SHIELD villan. my theory is that Vic will be the "left arm" of the Centipede project, another pawn.

that would be cool. with the corruption angle in the Captain America sequel, i just think this would be a good time to give her more facetime. they can't exactly use Maria Hill or Coulson as scapegoats.

 

[Xeno]

that would be cool. with the corruption angle in the Captain America sequel, i just think this would be a good time to give her more facetime. they can't exactly use Maria Hill or Coulson as scapegoats.

The clip of next week's show that Marvel released makes Hand seem like more of a by-the-book SHIELD leader who is understandably having none of the Coulson team's bull****. Coulson led his people into a situation that they were unprepared for and incapable of handling and he got himself captured in the process. Hand is actually right in her harsh assessment of the situation but naturally will be portrayed as being totally wrong.

 

[Alex_Kidd]

I LOVED that clip, guys, seriously.

 

[cherokeesam]

The clip of next week's show that Marvel released makes Hand seem like more of a by-the-book SHIELD leader who is understandably having none of the Coulson team's bull****. Coulson led his people into a situation that they were unprepared for and incapable of handling and he got himself captured in the process. Hand is actually right in her harsh assessment of the situation but naturally will be portrayed as being totally wrong.

May is the bad guy in that clip.
Hand is willing to forgo bureaucracy and seeks input from the senior agents on the team. Ward backs Skye; May stabs her in the back. That's enough of a vote of no-confidence for Hand to kick Skye off the team.

I think May may have ulterior motives now.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I think May may have ulterior motives now.

Her quest for the perfect scowl continues!

 

[Vartha]

Wait, there's a SHIELD comic?

Reposted here for those who may have missed it: Joe Quesada and Paul Mounts finally gave Fitz his monkey (as a birthday present for Iain de Caestecker).

 

[Alex_Kidd]

Nope, a celebrative draw from Marvel

 

[Whiskey Tango]

That's pretty damn cool. I want a custom comic page for my birthday too.

Mine would probably be drawn by Rob Liefeld though. I'd have 800lbs of guns and pouches but no feet.

 

[C. Lee]

Picked this up over the weekend at the comic shop. Avengers Assembled is the packaging tho, not the show

Sweet.......t:

 

[InnerWarrior]

Actually, it wasn't until after season 1's mid-season finale.

Up until the mid-season finale of season 1, each episode is hit-or-miss, with there being more misses than hits. Overall, it is just ok/meh. Then after the mid-season finale, the show finally gets really good. It's not mindblowing, but it's pretty good. The episodes range from fantastic to mediocre, with the worst episode being just "that was ok, but pretty enjoyable". The writers finally figure out which direction to take the show in. Then in season 2, the show really gets amazing and the writers figure everything out.

In a nutshell, the first half of season 1 pales in comparison to the second half and season 1 as a whole pales in comparison to season 2 (so far).


However, there are a few things the first 9 episodes of Arrow had that this show does not:

1) Stronger characters - This show has no strong main characters other than Coulson. Mike Peterson has been reduced to a guest-recurring character (that is,if he'll ever even appear again). Arrow had at least 3 strong characters that the fans liked by the mid-season finale: Diggle, Quentin, and Malcolm. Oliver wasn't too great, but was still much better than any of the young characters in this show.

2) Pacing - Since the very first episode, the show had continuity, moved at a fair pacing and never dragged things out too much. The main problem with the first 9 episodes was the quality of the stories being told and the poor characterizations. SHIELD has to fix those and the pacing.

3) Cliffhanger and Mysteries - Right from the beginning, the show knew how to keep you watching it. Even if you hated the episode you just saw, the cliffhanger at the end would still make you curious to see the next one. The best example was when episode 4 ended with Oliver being caught on tape as the vigilante and being arrested. SHIELD has yet to do any cliffhanger on par. The mysterious surrounding the show were also more interesting - what was on the island, the mystery behind Oliver's parents, The "plan", etc. On the other hand, the mysteries regarding Coulson's recovery and May's past have been hurt by the stretched-out plot while the mystery behind Skye's parents has been hurt by Skye herself (and by that, I mean the writing).

I actually loved Arrow by the first episode. Seemed so much like a film that when someone walked in when I was watching it they actually thought it was one! I watch Agents of Shield for the comic references, but the show is a little too campy for my tastes which is a problem I had during the climax of the Thor 2 film as well. It seemed that fight between Thor and Malekith was played more for jokes than serious action (like when Thor hits the window like one of those birds in the Windex commercials.) But Agents of Shield is fun, but reminds me of Power Rangers a bit haha