All Star Batman Thread

[silentflute]

On another note, here's a great quote from the man himself on the stupidity of continuity:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ages?q=david+mazzucchelli&svnum=10&hl=en&sa=N


Miller:When a character's been published monthly for forty or seventy years, a reader has to pick and choose between the good work and the bad. And if a talent has either made up a character or left his indelible stamp on it, a reader is under no obligation to blindly follow whatever nonsense the publisher pumps out. Surely no reasonable JAMES BOND follower would demand that fans of Sean Connery's Bond should be required to stick with every actor that succeeded him. As audience, we are the judges of what we consider meritorious.

Did I mention that Elektra is dead?

 

[Saint]

How is it not who he is? You keep saying that like it means something, but it means jack s***. Superman out-thinks his opponents all the time. It's who he is.

I have no idea where you get Superman not thinking is a necessity. How many people would agree that a dumb Superman is essential? No one. A smart Superman is infinitely more interesting.

That's not what I said at all. Please re-read my post, but do so from the point of view that I am not an unreasonable rabid batfan, and perhaps you will see what I actually said. I never said he's dumb, or that he doesn't think, only that he just doesn't think on the same level as Batman, just as he doesn't think on the level as Lex Luthor or Brainiac (Arguably, Batman doesn't think on their level either). Most heroes don't think at the level of Batman. And yes, that \is a necessity because these heroes need to have some level of equality--the reason Batman is smarter than Superman is the same reason the Flash is faster than Superman, because they all need their strengths. The bottom line, I suppose, is that if Superman thought like Batman, he wouldn't be on the League, because they'd already have their detective, their tactician. The fact that the opposite is true proves my point; Superman can't to everything, that's why there is Batman.

I'm not making a "Batman can beat Superman anytime, every time!" argument, I'm making a "Superman can't do everything" argument, because that is simply the truth of the matter. If it were not, Superman would be the one with the "World's Greatest Detective" title.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Not if that man has the resources to create Kryptonite, and surround himself with it and use it kick the living crap out of him.

It takes more than just Kryptonite to kill Superman. Superman can withstand Kryptonite, it's just how long he's exposed to it and how much of it is around. The Kryptonite in what was Batman's Kryptonite Ring did not even hurt Superman, it just allows Batman to punch Superman at least two or three times without injuring himself and slows him down. Superman himself carries Kryptonite.

Also read the Superman/Batman Annual in order to comprehend just how fast Superman is. He was able to change both Batman and Superman out of their costumes and into pajamas within less than a second so Lois wouldn't know that they were Batman and Superman.

 

[silentflute]

It takes more than just Kryptonite to kill Superman. Superman can withstand Kryptonite, it's just how long he's exposed to it and how much of it is around.

Well obviously Bats would be smart enough to bring in a good supply-like in DKR.


The Kryptonite in what was Batman's Kryptonite Ring did not even hurt Superman, it just allows Batman to punch Superman at least two or three times without injuring himself and slows him down. Superman himself carries Kryptonite.





Also read the Superman/Batman Annual in order to comprehend just how fast Superman is.

I'm fully aware of how fast Superman is.


He was able to change both Batman and Superman out of their costumes and into pajamas within less than a second so Lois wouldn't know that they were Batman and Superman.

Who wrote that stupid yarn?Batman isn't the type of guy to let another guy undress him and put him in pj's.That's just bad.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Well obviously Bats would be smart enough to bring in a good supply-like in DKR.

Stop using the Dark Knight Returns as an example. It is not in continuity. Also Kryptonite is very expensive and Batman does not have a huge-ass supply of it. Just small samples of it. The only person who has a massive supply of it is Lex Luthor.

I'm fully aware of how fast Superman is.

No you aren't. Superman would be able to knock Batman down before he could even whip out the Kryptonite. Superman would know that Batman carries Kryptonite whenever he's around him, so he knows how to adapt.

Who wrote that stupid yarn?Batman isn't the type of guy to let another guy undress him and put him in pj's.That's just bad.

Joe Kelly and it was actually a very funny scene. Batman did not expect it at all. He was just going to use knockout gas on Lois, and the next thing he knows, he's in a robe and underwear and when Lois leaves he starts to throw up.

 

[Benstamania]

That's not what I said at all. Please re-read my post, but do so from the point of view that I am not an unreasonable rabid batfan, and perhaps you will see what I actually said. I never said he's dumb, or that he doesn't think, only that he just doesn't think on the same level as Batman, just as he doesn't think on the level as Lex Luthor or Brainiac (Arguably, Batman doesn't think on their level either). Most heroes don't think at the level of Batman. And yes, that \is a necessity because these heroes need to have some level of equality--the reason Batman is smarter than Superman is the same reason the Flash is faster than Superman, because they all need their strengths. The bottom line, I suppose, is that if Superman thought like Batman, he wouldn't be on the League, because they'd already have their detective, their tactician. The fact that the opposite is true proves my point; Superman can't to everything, that's why there is Batman.

I'm not making a "Batman can beat Superman anytime, every time!" argument, I'm making a "Superman can't do everything" argument, because that is simply the truth of the matter. If it were not, Superman would be the one with the "World's Greatest Detective" title.

Very well said, I hate Batman vs Superman topics because they always turn into fanboy b&ming. This however was very well said, and true. Superman even admits he can't do everything. If he could, there would be no need for any other hero in the DCU.

 

[silentflute]

Stop using the Dark Knight Returns as an example. It is not in continuity.


I'll continue to use DKR as an example,Screw continuity.Read above post on that subject.

Also Kryptonite is very expensive and Batman does not have a huge-ass supply of it. Just small samples of it. The only person who has a massive supply of it is Lex Luthor.

Bruce Wayne is a billionaire.If Luthor can get it, Bruce can get it.


No you aren't.

Yes, I am.


Superman would be able to knock Batman down before he could even whip out the Kryptonite.

Only if he knew that he had the kryptonite on him.Which he wouldn't if it was encased in lead.Therefore there'd be no reason for him to Knock Bats down.



Superman would know that Batman carries Kryptonite whenever he's around him, so he knows how to adapt.

And how, pray tell would he KNOW that.Did he know it when Luthor had it?


Joe Kelly and it was actually a very funny scene. Batman did not expect it at all. He was just going to use knockout gas on Lois, and the next thing he knows, he's in a robe and underwear and when Lois leaves he starts to throw up.

That's pretty bad.

 

[silentflute]

Very well said, I hate Batman vs Superman topics because they always turn into fanboy b&ming. This however was very well said, and true. Superman even admits he can't do everything. If he could, there would be no need for any other hero in the DCU.

Agreed.

Re:Batman Vs Superman threads-yes I agree the whole topic is pointless, because scenario dictates.But I do have a problem with those that think Superman is undefeatable because he has God like powers.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I'll continue to use DKR as an example,Screw continuity.Read above post on that subject.

YOU CAN'T IGNORE CONTINUITY FOR THE MILLIONTH FREAKING TIME

Bruce Wayne is a billionaire.If Luthor can get it, Bruce can get it.

Lex stole most of his Kryptonite and obtained it himself. Also, he is much better at making it than Batman is

Yes, I am.

No, you don't.

Only if he knew that he had the kryptonite on him.Which he wouldn't if it was encased in lead.Therefore there'd be no reason for him to Knock Bats down.

Except Superman knows that Batman carries Kryptonite. He knows that he carries it in the Batcave and within his utility belt whenever Superman is around. SUPERMAN KNOWS!

And how, pray tell would he KNOW that.Did he know it when Luthor had it?

1. It was the movie, not the comics.

2. Superman didn't even know what the hell Kryptonite even was when he first encountered it. Now these days whenever Superman encounters Luthor, he expects Kryptonite.

That's pretty bad.

No, it was pretty funny. The entire issue was funny with the Deadpool rip-off, the page where it said they couldn't show the entire battle because it was just too awesome for our minds to comprehend it, and Superman undressing Batman within a second and Batman getting pissed off over it while throwing up.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Agreed.

Re:Batman Vs Superman threads-yes I agree the whole topic is pointless, because scenario dictates.But I do have a problem with those that think Superman is undefeatable because he has God like powers.

The debate is not if Superman is undefeatable, because he is. There are beings who are more powerful than he is like Darkseid, the Spectre, and Doomsday.

The debate which you are claiming is if Batman can beat Superman, which is impossible. Batman cannot defeat Superman. Even with prep-time. Even with Kryptonite.

 

[Benstamania]

Is anyone really arguing the fact that Batman could beat Superman in a knock down, drag out knuckle to knuckle fight? Hell, in Hush Bats says to himself that if Superman was fighting him with ALL of his strength, he wouldn't stand a chance. But he went on to say about that being Clarks weakness. Batman just manages to out think Clark. Sure, you can argue the fact that Supes was possessed by Ivy....but when ANYONE is all rage they can easily be out thought.


So, could Bats beats Supes if they fought hand to hand? No, it's Superman for crying out loud. BUT! That doesn't mean he wouldn't try, and that's what makes Batman the main man IMHO. What other hero would stand up to Superman if he went insane? No one, most of them would probably cry doom and gloom.

Batman could NOT defeat a fully powered Superman....but Superman, on "Bruce's level" wouldn't be able to defeat him either...so....

So....I just look at them as equals. Superman is the brawn, Batman is the brains. They're a perfect match.

So, as long as Batman doesn't challenge Superman to a game of chess, Supermans ok.

 

[Tojo]

Saint is totally correct. I said earlier on the thread about the JLA, and bought up why Batman is even on the league. It's because he is some kindof genius.

 

[Saint]

The debate is not if Superman is undefeatable, because he is. There are beings who are more powerful than he is like Darkseid, the Spectre, and Doomsday.

The debate which you are claiming is if Batman can beat Superman, which is impossible. Batman cannot defeat Superman. Even with prep-time. Even with Kryptonite.

I think you are being unnecessarily extreme; I think it's only reasonable to say that under certain circumstances, Batman might emerge victorious--mainly because Superman will not injure him in any permanent way, while Batman doesn't need to injure Superman permanently in order to incapacitate him indefinitely.

This is a problem that has emerged with these Superman/Batman debates; lots of Batman fanboys refuse to admit that Batman can be beaten, and in response the Superman fanboys go to the opposite extreme; that Superman can never be beaten by Batman. The fact is that neither of those statements are true.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I think you are being unnecessarily extreme; I think it's only reasonable to say that under certain circumstances, Batman might emerge victorious--mainly because Superman will not injure him in any permanent way, while Batman doesn't need to injure Superman permanently in order to incapacitate him indefinitely.

I'm being extreme for obvious reasons. He isn't listening to reason

This is a problem that has emerged with these Superman/Batman debates; lots of Batman fanboys refuse to admit that Batman can be beaten, and in response the Superman fanboys go to the opposite extreme; that Superman can never be beaten by Batman. The fact is that neither of those statements are true.

I like to think of myself as an Aquaman fanboy

 

[Saint]

I'm being extreme for obvious reasons. He isn't listening to reason

I follow.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=litg&article=2731

Frank Miller has written issue #8 of "All Star Batman And Robin The Boy Wonder," Jim Lee had the fully inked issue #5 to show off and says he's well underway on issue #6.

 

[Kraven]

And they said it couldn't be done... That this day would never come...

 

[Mogwai]

great news.

 

[CConn]

Although, I still wonder, if #5's fully inked already, why can't they get it out sooner than May 16th? I mean, don't tell me Jim Lee's colorist takes two months to get done an issue too.

 

[The Leaguer]

At some point, I think Lee said part of the delay was that it takes time to solicit a book, giving stores enough time to order it. Sounded like bulls*** to me.

 

[silentflute]

YOU CAN'T IGNORE CONTINUITY FOR THE MILLIONTH FREAKING TIME

FOR THE MILLIONTH FREAKING TIME: I CAN IGNORE IT AND I WILL IGNORE IT.AND LIFE GOES ON.


Lex stole most of his Kryptonite and obtained it himself. Also, he is much better at making it than Batman is

Oh, is he?Who says?You?Please.


Except Superman knows that Batman carries Kryptonite. He knows that he carries it in the Batcave and within his utility belt whenever Superman is around. SUPERMAN KNOWS!

Batman isn't stupid enough to let him know, so whatever book you're using as your guide, obviously has a very bad writer who has no clue of how Batman operates.Period.


1. It was the movie, not the comics.

And you're point is?You saying that Superman the movie is not to be considered the real Superman?



2. Superman didn't even know what the hell Kryptonite even was when he first encountered it.

Hmm, so much for you're theory on Super Brain then?Lex figured it out, but Superman didn't?Nice.




No, it was pretty funny. The entire issue was funny with the Deadpool rip-off, the page where it said they couldn't show the entire battle because it was just too awesome for our minds to comprehend it, and Superman undressing Batman within a second and Batman getting pissed off over it while throwing up.

Enjoy you're cheap thrills.

 

[silentflute]

I'm being extreme for obvious reasons. He isn't listening to reason

Reason?Mr.I-live-and-die-by-continuity-at-all-costs? Talk about delusional.

 

[The Leaguer]

Considering all Batman has done is come up with a way of synthesizing red Kryptonite (he never actually did it himself), whereas Lex practically traffics in the stuff, doing countless experiments on it, it's pretty safe to say Lex is far better at it.

When we're talking about comics Superman, you can't reference the movies. It's not the same thing.

 

[Mee]

Although, I still wonder, if #5's fully inked already, why can't they get it out sooner than May 16th? I mean, don't tell me Jim Lee's colorist takes two months to get done an issue too.

Maybe they want to get as much of 6# (or all of it) done as they can before #5 comes out so they can maybe get back on some kind of schedule.

 

[silentflute]

Considering all Batman has done is come up with a way of synthesizing red Kryptonite (he never actually did it himself), whereas Lex practically traffics in the stuff, doing countless experiments on it, it's pretty safe to say Lex is far better at it.

Cause he's devoted all his time to it.Bruce could do just as much if inclined - that is if he wasn't busy going after criminals.

When we're talking about comics Superman, you can't reference the movies.It's not the same thing.

Sure I can.It's Superman.Continuity be damned