BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 292

[Wylie Times]

superman's first day on the job was mos.

18 months later and he still looks miserable. dude is not superman. he feels like doing good things is a burden.

You know what, I kinda hate when people say this, because it's not true.

The only thing Clark was doing for the first time was fighting people as strong as him and flying. He had all his other powers for YEARS, he had been saving people in secrecy for YEARS.

Hell he logically should have been much stronger than Zod and the others. Superman had been on earth soaking up sun rays for 3 decades compared to the other kryptonians that had only been there for a couple of days tops.

 

[gdw]

superman's first day on the job was mos.

18 months later and he still looks miserable. dude is not superman. he feels like doing good things is a burden.

Well, when the rest of the world seems to be condemning you for doing good things, yeah, it kinda MAKES it a burden.

 

[gdw]

This was posted a few pages back, but I wanted to comment a bit on it:
https://www.yahoo.com/style/batman-...r-190000035.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb

Some good points, absolutely, but there's a lot that screams 'I didn't even watch the film.'

"Hollywood to give us a female superhero, thirteen years younger than her romantic interest, who looks better equipped to walk during Paris Fashion Week than to wrestle monsters. (Or maybe, she doesn't need the bodybuilder hulk of muscle that Batman and Superman have because she has better powers?)"

Um, NOT a love interest (despite the "flirtatious" exchange), AND her character is literally THOUSANDS of years his senior. The movie makes a point of showing that she's been around for at least a hundred years.

Also, despite attempting to cover it with the pretense of criticizing Hollywood depictions (a completely valid point,) how is this not the exact same body shaming of Gal Gadot so many did when she was cast?

Sorry for focusing on the ********, over the legit points, but the blind righteous indignation of the ******** really pisses me off. Especially when coming from people otherwise in the right. It's a HUGE detriment to your own causes.

There's plenty to be righteously indigent over, but when you let it blind you, and you direct it where it doesn't belong, you cause much more harm than good.

 

[Poni_Boy]

This was posted a few pages back, but I wanted to comment a bit on it:
https://www.yahoo.com/style/batman-...r-190000035.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb

Some good points, absolutely, but there's a lot that screams 'I didn't even watch the film.'

"Hollywood to give us a female superhero, thirteen years younger than her romantic interest, who looks better equipped to walk during Paris Fashion Week than to wrestle monsters. (Or maybe, she doesn't need the bodybuilder hulk of muscle that Batman and Superman have because she has better powers?)"

Um, NOT a love interest (despite the "flirtatious" exchange), AND her character is literally THOUSANDS of years his senior. The movie makes a point of showing that she's been around for at least a hundred years.

Also, despite attempting to cover it with the pretense of criticizing Hollywood depictions (a completely valid point,) how is this not the exact same body shaming of Gal Gadot so many did when she was cast?

Sorry for focusing on the ********, over the legit points, but the blind righteous indignation of the ******** really pisses me off. Especially when coming from people otherwise in the right. It's a HUGE detriment to your own causes.

There's plenty to be righteously indigent over, but when you let it blind you, and you direct it where it doesn't belong, you cause much more harm than good.

The piece is meant to cause this kind of response. If you want less of them, read/link people to less of them. They'll move onto another topic that gets them hits. Just my advise.

 

[souperman]

superman's first day on the job was mos.

18 months later and he still looks miserable. dude is not superman. he feels like doing good things is a burden.

You are misinterpreting the emotions IMO.

He is not burdened. He is confused and confounded by some peoples view of him...just like many here.

He is hurt by their "hate" of him. He does not understand why he does good,helps people and yet is feared or hated by some.

This is very clear in the film.

He is questioning his very being. "should" he be the hero. "should" he help people that don't appreciate it or maybe don't want it...like the government.

How can he be himself and still fit in society?

I am as confounded as our Super-powered hero...t:

No Offence...

 

[Bibs11]

You're not alone buddy. It's not a very heroic superhero movie *hug*

Hate to say it, but I agree...

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

When Terrio came on board I was so exciting. Because I wanted this to be a philosophical clash of ideals and a character study between the two heroes. Optimism vs pessimism. Idealist vs. Realist. Hope vs. Cynic.

But the issue is they tried to do so much. "Should there even be a Superman?" Such a great question for a whole movie. You can get deeply philosophical and really explore the need for Superman but they brush past that question.

The reason Batman and Superman fight is not because they have differing methods and ideals...it's because ugh. And they never talk about it. Remember how Daredevil and Punisher questioned each other's ways and effectiveness on the rooftop? We should've had that with these two.

Batman believes Superman is an unchecked power who causes nothing buy chaos wherever he goes and cannot be trusted. Superman believes Batman is a brutal maniac who takes the law into his own hands acts like judge, jury and executioner. That would've been such a great premise and the world would've wrestle with what kind of hero we really need.

Audiences could've picked a side in the fight depending on whose philosophy they agree with. Then at the end Lois could've done an article (wrap up monologue) about why we need both. Batman grounds Superman while Superman gives him a little hope. Honestly this film could've blown TDK out of the water in terms of social themes, commentary and philosophical questioning and the need for Superman. But he never once gets to explain himself.

 

[HELLilac]

superman's first day on the job was mos.

18 months later and he still looks miserable. dude is not superman. he feels like doing good things is a burden.

I don't think it's a burden to him but the film just shows the montage so we can't see his real interaction with the people he's saving. I think the film just want us to see Superman through the skeptics eyes. The way Supes get presented in the film manipulates us to view him as an unsympathetic alien the way Bruce sees him.

 

[Bibs11]

You know what, I kinda hate when people say this, because it's not true.

The only thing Clark was doing for the first time was fighting people as strong as him and flying. He had all his other powers for YEARS, he had been saving people in secrecy for YEARS.

Hell he logically should have been much stronger than Zod and the others. Superman had been on earth soaking up sun rays for 3 decades compared to the other kryptonians that had only been there for a couple of days tops.

That's actually a very good point...Jor-El even told his son that he'd grown stronger than he could have possibly imagined...

 

[Zero_Effect]

Patrick, how long do you think Ben will want to play Batman?

WHITESELL Well, he's contracted to do at least Justice League One and Two, so at least three times wearing the cape. And there's a script that he's written that is a really cool [Batman] idea, so that's out there as an option.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/ari-emanuel-patrick-whitesell-unleashed-879003

 

[NeoRanger]

You are misinterpreting the emotions IMO.

He is not burdened. He is confused and confounded by some peoples view of him...just like many here.

He is hurt by their "hate" of him. He does not understand why he does good,helps people and yet is feared or hated by some.

This is very clear in the film.

He is questioning his very being. "should" he be the hero. "should" he help people that don't appreciate it or maybe don't want it...like the government.

How can he be himself and still fit in society?

Once again, I saw none of that in the movie. If I had, I would have hated it, or at least disliked it very, very much.

But such is the nature of art, interpretation is up to the receiver.

 

[gdw]

You know what, I kinda hate when people say this, because it's not true.

The only thing Clark was doing for the first time was fighting people as strong as him and flying. He had all his other powers for YEARS, he had been saving people in secrecy for YEARS.

Hell he logically should have been much stronger than Zod and the others. Superman had been on earth soaking up sun rays for 3 decades compared to the other kryptonians that had only been there for a couple of days tops.

Um, yeah, there's a HUGE difference between saving people by heavy lifting, and fighting a small army of genetically engineered soldiers with a lifetime of combat training.

While he's been using his strength, he's never even thrown a punch, let alone fought anyone, before Zod threatened his mother.

Also, Superman DOES make the point that he's had his life to learn to control his powers (which only actually applies to general strength and heightened senses), and Zod reiterates the combat training.

Learning to block out excess noise and light spectrums means jack **** against a military force with equal powers on a brute force level.

This is further emphasized with how quickly Zod learns to control his flight, compared to Clark's multiple attempts, and sloppy initial execution.

 

[Poni_Boy]

That's actually a very good point...Jor-El even told his son that he'd grown stronger than he could have possibly imagined...

Well I believe that part. Never have I seen a Superman so physically burdened by his powers. He takes off like a missile and lands like a concussion grenade. His heat vision is like breaching a nuclear reactor. His super speed is even short, quick explosive bursts. Never have a seen a Superman with such a lack of physical nuance, finesse or control of his powers. I'd be terrified of him helping me.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

When Terrio came on board I was so exciting. Because I wanted this to be a philosophical clash of ideals and a character study between the two heroes. Optimism vs pessimism. Idealist vs. Realist. Hope vs. Cynic.

But the issue is they tried to do so much. "Should there even be a Superman?" Such a great question for a whole movie. You can get deeply philosophical and really explore the need for Superman but they brush past that question.

The reason Batman and Superman fight is not because they have differing methods and ideals...it's because ugh. And they never talk about it. Remember how Daredevil and Punisher questioned each other's ways and effectiveness on the rooftop? We should've had that with these two.

Batman believes Superman is an unchecked power who causes nothing buy chaos wherever he goes and cannot be trusted. Superman believes Batman is a brutal maniac who takes the law into his own hands acts like judge, jury and executioner. That would've been such a great premise and the world would've wrestle with what kind of hero we really need.

Audiences could've picked a side in the fight depending on whose philosophy they agree with. Then at the end Lois could've done an article (wrap up monologue) about why we need both. Batman grounds Superman while Superman gives him a little hope. Honestly this film could've blown TDK out of the water in terms of social themes, commentary and philosophical questioning and the need for Superman. But he never once gets to explain himself.

Lois could never write an article stating why we need someone who tortures people and essentially has them executed. Batman had gone too far by the time the events of BvS started. He was in the game for a very long time and had lost his way. His actions had gone so far that it was making front page news. Clearly these types of actions had not been done before otherwise why make the front page. By the end of movie Batman had found more of his way again evidenced by not harming Lex.

 

[brandeezy89]

Patrick, how long do you think Ben will want to play Batman?

WHITESELL Well, he's contracted to do at least Justice League One and Two, so at least three times wearing the cape. And there's a script that he's written that is a really cool [Batman] idea, so that's out there as an option.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/ari-emanuel-patrick-whitesell-unleashed-879003

So the script is already done?

Ben works fast

 

[gdw]

The piece is meant to cause this kind of response. If you want less of them, read/link people to less of them. They'll move onto another topic that gets them hits. Just my advise.

The problem I have is when people generally in the right do this, and do it in the name of legitimate causes.
It's such a detriment, and an insult, to their cause.

 

[Zero_Effect]

So the script is already done?

Ben works fast

They were supposed to have a draft done last August-September.

http://deadline.com/2015/07/ben-aff...tertainment-warner-bros-comic-con-1201472921/

 

[TripleJ]

When Terrio came on board I was so exciting. Because I wanted this to be a philosophical clash of ideals and a character study between the two heroes. Optimism vs pessimism. Idealist vs. Realist. Hope vs. Cynic.

But the issue is they tried to do so much. "Should there even be a Superman?" Such a great question for a whole movie. You can get deeply philosophical and really explore the need for Superman but they brush past that question.

The reason Batman and Superman fight is not because they have differing methods and ideals...it's because ugh. And they never talk about it. Remember how Daredevil and Punisher questioned each other's ways and effectiveness on the rooftop? We should've had that with these two.

Batman believes Superman is an unchecked power who causes nothing buy chaos wherever he goes and cannot be trusted. Superman believes Batman is a brutal maniac who takes the law into his own hands acts like judge, jury and executioner. That would've been such a great premise and the world would've wrestle with what kind of hero we really need.

Audiences could've picked a side in the fight depending on whose philosophy they agree with. Then at the end Lois could've done an article (wrap up monologue) about why we need both. Batman grounds Superman while Superman gives him a little hope. Honestly this film could've blown TDK out of the water in terms of social themes, commentary and philosophical questioning and the need for Superman. But he never once gets to explain himself.

I agree to an extent. The problem is that you will never get the fight scenes (superb, by the way) if they had done that.

This Superman is different, but I don't see him going and challenging someone to a fight (he did warn Bruce to stop though) because they do things differently.

In that way, this resembles more to Superman (as he's portrayed now in comics). He fought because he was forced to. Not because someone else didn't share his ideology (or they were brutal to criminals).

 

[BlueLanternKal]

This was posted a few pages back, but I wanted to comment a bit on it:
https://www.yahoo.com/style/batman-...r-190000035.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb

Some good points, absolutely, but there's a lot that screams 'I didn't even watch the film.'

"Hollywood to give us a female superhero, thirteen years younger than her romantic interest, who looks better equipped to walk during Paris Fashion Week than to wrestle monsters. (Or maybe, she doesn't need the bodybuilder hulk of muscle that Batman and Superman have because she has better powers?)"

Um, NOT a love interest (despite the "flirtatious" exchange), AND her character is literally THOUSANDS of years his senior. The movie makes a point of showing that she's been around for at least a hundred years.

Also, despite attempting to cover it with the pretense of criticizing Hollywood depictions (a completely valid point,) how is this not the exact same body shaming of Gal Gadot so many did when she was cast?

Sorry for focusing on the ********, over the legit points, but the blind righteous indignation of the ******** really pisses me off. Especially when coming from people otherwise in the right. It's a HUGE detriment to your own causes.

There's plenty to be righteously indigent over, but when you let it blind you, and you direct it where it doesn't belong, you cause much more harm than good.

Typical feminazi clickbait. Ignore it.

 

[Rapunzel]

Well I believe that part. Never have I seen a Superman so physically burdened by his powers. He takes off like a missile and lands like a concussion grenade. His heat vision is like breaching a nuclear reactor. His super speed is even short, quick explosive bursts. Never have a seen a Superman with such a lack of physical nuance, finesse or control of his powers. I'd be terrified of him helping me.

What??? He's perfectly nuanced during the day of the dead scene, and when saving Lois after Lex pushes her off the building. Plus, he was completely nuanced with his heat vision when he saves Lois in MoS. Not to mention, he has perfect control over the heat vision when he confronts Lex and learns about Martha. His hearing is also nuanced when he overhears Bruce at the party scene. Not to mention, if he'd had no nuance, Bats would've died in that fight.

 

[Poni_Boy]

The problem I have is when people generally in the right do this, and do it in the name of legitimate causes.
It's such a detriment, and an insult, to their cause.

I agree. But it's click bait. If you open it, they win.

 

[Jam2315]

Random....so I guess the classic shirt rip is not ideal for fitting in the real world is why they aren't using it or haven't yet. I can get that but why not use all of his powers? Freeze/super breath doesn't seem like something Snyder is going to use

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Random....so I guess the classic shirt rip is not ideal for fitting in the real world is why they aren't using it or haven't yet. I can get that but why not use all of his powers? Freeze/super breath doesn't seem like something Snyder is going to use

How does he fit that suit, cape included under his work clothes? Pretty hard to do I would imagine and if so he would look pretty ridiculous t:

 

[Kobra]

He did explain the v verses the vs...t:

He used the v because it denotes a "lawsuit" -a legal,moral or civic question or dilemma, not vs which denotes a fight.

Mission not accomplished because everyone still calls it "Batman versus Superman".

Snyder likes to come up with all these cool ideas that only him and a few selected people truly understand. It works against his movies, sadly.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Random....so I guess the classic shirt rip is not ideal for fitting in the real world is why they aren't using it or haven't yet. I can get that but why not use all of his powers? Freeze/super breath doesn't seem like something Snyder is going to use

Probably too subtle. Can't make it "cinematic" in Snyder's eyes