All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - Part 307

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]517209[/split]

 

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]516511[/split]

 

Exactly. At that point he doesn't know if Batman is going to snap or not. He could end up killing Martha, letting her die or simply not get there in time and Superman let's him go anyway. It's stupid. Beyond stupid.

 

The movie makes it clear that talking is what would have wasted time. The movie makes it clear that Superman is both fighting for his life and fighting so that Batman is subdued. The movie also makes it clear that Superman was needed elsewhere to do a vitally important task that only Superman could do: deal with Lex and whatever dangerous Kryptonian business he was doing at the scout ship. He chose to trust Batman. He did it because Batman could have finished the job (killed him), but didn't (showed self-control and faith). He did it because he's Superman and he chooses to have faith in humanity and believe in second chances. Bruce showed him mercy, so he showed Bruce faith.

 

ComicConverse posted an awesome article recently, discussing what you guys are discussing at the moment.

Batman v Superman: The Triumph of Hope in the DCEU

 

Bruce decided not to kill him so now that means that Batman can get to Martha faster than the guy who can fly and grab his mom in a second and fly out?

You're reaally reaching misslane.

Not only that , faith means nothing since humans can make mistakes and supes can't afford mistakes when his mom might die any minute. It makes zero sense. It was done because Zack wanted to show off Batmans fighting in a warehouse scene. And I'm not exaggerating. It's just so obvious that it's ridiculous. Amateur script writing on all levels. Just like having no time to think, only react, and you say your moms name !?? Instead of simply "save my mother!"

The second half of the movie is a giant laugh riot for all the wrong reasons.

 

Uhm, yup. Pretty much.

 

Wrong. It was done so Superman can place his trust on Bruce so Batman can redeem himself.

 

It's not about faster. It's something Batman is capable of doing while Superman has something of imminent importance for him to do at the scout ship that only he can handle. Not to mention that Lex told Superman that if he flew to Martha, Martha would die. Superman only considers going to her at first because he's in a daze. It's also strange for you to both argue that Superman should talk to Batman and reason with him as a way to not waste time, yet also argue that once he had gotten through to Batman with words to help him save his mother, he shouldn't have let Batman help save his mother. Either you believe Batman can be reasoned with and can be trusted or you don't. If you don't, then don't suggest that Superman should have talked it out with him.

Superman says save Martha both because it's more specific than saying save a mother who's a stranger to you and because he knows it's a name that has meaning for Bruce. Finally, Superman having faith in fallible humans is kind of his thing. The movie even proves that Superman was right to trust Batman. Batman trusted Superman (thus he didn't kill him), and Superman returned the favor. They chose to have hope and trust in each other rather than give into cynicism and fear.

 

Exactly.

 

When you're about to die you're not thinking specifics. You don't have time to choose your words. It's all instinct. He would not say his mothers name in a moment like that.

It IS ABOUT FASTER. His moms going to die any minute. Using his mom as an experiment to see if Batmans going to redeem himself or not is just..wow.

 

Actually, calling her his mother would have been specific. He has one mother (okay, technically two) and there are thousands of Marthas.

 

I meant MOM. He would say Save my mom. Save mom.

 

I've heard stretching is good for you but this.............

 

The entire movie is a giant laugh riot that turn two of the iconic characters into dumb, idiots. This is the universe that established that whenever Lois or his mother are in trouble, he shows up to save them then suddenly that conviniently goes away in the 3rd act. Set up the rules, follow them. Don't bend them inorder to serve the story especially when done poorly. If Batman couldnt find Martha then what. Superman had more chances of finding his mother than Batman given what was established in this universe.

 

Yes because there's only one Martha left in this universe. And how did Superman know the name Martha has any significance for Bruce? Actually, **** that, how did superman even know Bruce's mother's name was Martha?

 

Ah, verbosity and intellectual dishonesty at their finest.

 

Clark as a reporter and also as Superman preparing to confront the Batman, read up on Bruce and found the parents obituary... Unshown... Could have shown. Knowing this, Superman and his advanced intellect realizes that he can use this psychology to reach Bruce.

They "could" have had Lex, on the roof, taunt Clark as he walked away saying...
"Martha... Its ironic that the mothers of the Worlds Finest share the same name! His is dead. Yours can live... If you kill the Bat. Tick tock. Tick tock !"

 

Superman has one mother, but Batman has no idea who Superman's mother is. So if Superman just said, "Save my mother," then Batman would literally have nowhere to start. Batman has no idea that Superman is Clark Kent. Plus, let's be clear, Superman just heard Batman talk about Superman's parents with contempt. Batman seems to genuinely hate EVERYTHING about Superman, so why would Superman think the best way to get through to Bruce would be to make a personal appeal? It's also a reasonable assumption to make that Superman, because he knows Batman is Bruce Wayne from overhearing Alfred and Bruce at the library gala, that he also uncovered the rest of Bruce's personal history. We know he did, because he calls Batman, Bruce, before he starts to talk to him and the fight ensues; thus it's clear Superman knows Bruce is Batman. So he uses his last breaths to say something that might break through to Bruce.

First, I did not use a lot of words. What is the word limit I am allowed before anything I say is dismissable and mocked? You seem to have a very clear idea where that line is, so I'm just curious how you figured it all out. And, if I have said anything intellectually dishonest, then prove it. Otherwise, this is just an ad hominem response, which is a fallacious approach to debate and discussion. So, if you have something to say, just say it, and leave out the personal attacks.

 

Someone is triggered.

 

Point is, it wasn't shown or said. Misslane just used an assumption to support her argument which does her no favours. That point about Superman knowing about Martha's connection to Bruce is ******** because it never happened in the film.

And then your argument falls apart. It was neither said nor shown in the film so that invalidates your opinion, I'm sorry. You just can't throw in assumptions to support your point. You actually have to back up your points with what was presented in the film here, a fact. Also it becomes stupid. Batman taunting Superman about his parents and then only gets surprised to find out that Superman has a mother. Screw logic. That was bad writing.

 

Trying to redeem Batman is fine and bringing his hope in the world back is brilliant, but the way it was done is what I have a problem with. I understand the point of the Martha scene and understand that Bruce had a mirror put up to him and he saw what he had become as well as seeing that this alien has a human mother. Batman isn't the problem in the exchange, it's Superman. He started off good, "Bruce I was wrong I'm sorry" but then he stopped talking and got violent. I thought things would get better after he said "stay down! If I wanted it you'd be dead already". Because again he is trying to reason with him. But that is the last thing he says for like the next 10 mins? Bruce was talking and we got a glimpse into his mindset but Supes stops talking and it doesn't make sense as to why? Yes he's weakened and is fighting for his life, but he's not when the kryptonite wears off; why look smugly at Batman instead of using that moment to tell him what Lex wants?

 

I disagree with that, it made perfect sense. When Batman taunted him about his parents he was talking about his alien parents, or that's what I thought. But when Supermans last breath is a plea to save someone else and Lois tells Bruce that Martha is his mothers name, a human name, he realizes that this being he never referred to as anything but an alien has human connections and a human mother he doesn't want to die.

 

Logic overload.

 

Didn't Zod announce that Superman has been hiding on earth his whole life or something? Bruce says I bet your parents taught you that you were meant for...

I always took that line as his parents in general, but especially human. Bruce should have investigated his history before trying to kill him. Apparently he doesn't. But then he makes that assumption, and THEN HE STILL GETS SURPRISED THAT SUPERMAN CARES ABOUT HIS MOTHER.

Worst. Writing. Ever.

That should have been the tag line on the BvS trailer.