BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[LEVITIKUZ]

In HellBoy, He's not a killer - of humans, yet he punches an innocent bystanders car and sends it end over end to a huge crash which should seriously injure or kill the occupants, but this was humorous and displayed his power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kA0tg8hudw

The car did a flip. It's fine.

People don't know Hellboy even exists so when they saw him, they likely speed up to hit him.

 

[rogue trooper]

Don't know how many people heard or saw but Grace Randolph called BvS "the Shining of superhero films"

She compared this film to a Kubrick film.

You do know that The Shining was not well received initially? It was actually nominated for a pair of Razzies,..... including Worst Director.

 

[souperman]

You do know that The Shining was not well received initially? It was actually nominated for a pair of Razzies,..... including Worst Director.

and Eye's Wide Shut?


Now, compare it to 2001 -Clockwork Orange and we got problems up here...

 

[rogue trooper]

and Eye's Wide Shut?


Now, compare it to 2001 -Clockwork Orange and we got problems up here...

Indeed. Yeah, 2001: ASO had a very polarized reception when it came out also.

 

[Clark-Kent]

I saw Civil War tonight. Yeah, it’s going to a bumpy few weeks here.

Folks - if anyone trolls these threads with any kind of Civil War/Marvel gloating, please report it. We can’t be on every thread all the time, so just let us know if someone is causing trouble, and it will absolutely be dealt with.

I'm looking forward to it, even if a DC fan mostly. I've spoken with some people who saw it, and they said it's a great Marvel film. These fanboy wars are silly lol.

 

[Bane Cook]

I don't care/necessarily believe any of this for the record, but I'll take a crack at the Robin thing for the hell of it:

1. That's not a kid's suit. Robin could be in his early 20's. Nobody knows how old he is but that's not a kid's suit.

2. Like some have said it's probably Jason Todd

3. Why would Batman have the monument WITH the halberd if he didn't always promote killing? Maybe Robin started killing against Batman's wishes originally and Batman didn't "put a halberd in his hands." Maybe Robin's original weapon of choice WAS his staff but he fashioned it into a halberd before the end of his life. The "HAHAHA Jokes on you Batman" may not be just referring to the actual death of Robin, but the fact that Joker could corrupt Robin and make him go back on his killing rule. So Joker corrupted Robin, and then swiftly killed him because he had won the game.

So then when does Batman start killing? Well according to the prequel comics after the Black Zero Event. There's a lot to say about that event that could trigger that in him but it's said in the movie so I won't go into that.

Notice how he has the Robin monument with the kill staff out in the open while his Bat suit is hidden away. I know people like to not give Snyder any credit but I do think that could represent where Batman is right now. When he looks up at it in BvS maybe he's supposed to be thinking to himself, "The Joker was right. That's what I have to be."

Then Superman man comes in, and by the end of BvS he's the symbol of hope to Bruce that brings back from over the edge.

The solo Batman movie could play with this. The conflict between Batman and Red Hood on if being a "hero" they way they used to be can still cut it, are they any different that the criminals they claim to fight against, and Batman trying to convince Jason that you can "come back" because he's done it himself.


This all hinges on 2 things: if Robin did indeed kill in the first place. It know it would take a huge suspension of disbelief to believe that never killed with that weapon but I guess it's still possible. And the other thing is if Batman turns into the Batman that avoids killing at all costs. If the first thing Batman does in Justice League is merk some dude everything goes out the window.

 

[jmc]

Don't know how many people heard or saw but Grace Randolph called BvS "the Shining of superhero films"

She compared this film to a Kubrick film.

Grace has actually become an embarrassment to the pop culture community over BvS. From the rants she's been going on including accusing John Campea of being paid off by Marvel for his review of Civil War, I'm actually convinced there's something seriously wrong with her.

 

[C. Lee]

Grace has actually become an embarrassment to the pop culture community over BvS. From the rants she's been going on including accusing John Campea of being paid off by Marvel for his review of Civil War, I'm actually convinced there's something seriously wrong with her.

Yeah.....I watched the video Campea made about it (had to delete a link to it because of multiple use of the F word)....and what he said made her look pretty damn pathetic. I don't follow her, but have read many on here commenting about things she post....just from his video about her, if she told me my name was C. Lee, I would have to check my license, ask my wife about it, and then check out my birth certificate.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Grace has actually become an embarrassment to the pop culture community over BvS. From the rants she's been going on including accusing John Campea of being paid off by Marvel for his review of Civil War, I'm actually convinced there's something seriously wrong with her.

Which is dumb because Campea loved MOS and defended BvS like Kevin Smith.

But they are biased even though WB sent you a box of free BvS **** right before the film came out.

Gee I wonder why?

 

[jmc]

What's worst of all is that she is the de facto voice of the DC conspiracy theorists, and those people are becoming a plague on the comic community. There was once a time when it was embarrassing to be a superhero fan years and years ago, they were considered kids stuff. Then the superhero movie phase hit and made comic characters mainstream, and it was now cool to like them. Now people like Grace are once again making it embarrassing to be associated with superheroes with their delusions of conspiracy. That element of the fan community has always been present but now it's loud and vocal.

 

[Marvin]

What's worst of all is that she is the de facto voice of the DC conspiracy theorists, and those people are becoming a plague on the comic community. There was once a time when it was embarrassing to be a superhero fan years and years ago, they were considered kids stuff. Then the superhero movie phase hit and made comic characters mainstream, and it was now cool to like them. Now people like Grace are once again making it embarrassing to be associated with superheroes with their delusions of conspiracy. That element of the fan community has always been present but now it's loud and vocal.

Time out grace has always been grace, there is a thread dedicated to her ilk. She's done plenty of her spinning against all things snyder and ayer and dceu in the recent past.
Now she's an embarrassment?

 

[DeadStroke]

Dan Jurgens
‏@thedanjurgens
I think it'd be possible to make a great Superman movie in which he doesn't say a single word. Silence the key. Strong, quiet inspiration.

 

[RadioSha]

Dan Jurgens
‏@thedanjurgens
I think it'd be possible to make a great Superman movie in which he doesn't say a single word. Silence the key. Strong, quiet inspiration.

I agree to an extent actually.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Dan Jurgens
‏@thedanjurgens
I think it'd be possible to make a great Superman movie in which he doesn't say a single word. Silence the key. Strong, quiet inspiration.

No it really isn't. Batman has always been the silent type. Less is more with Batman when it comes to dialogue. Batman likes to keep himself distant to people and not open up to them.

With Superman, he's always with people. He's close with them. He works with humans, hangs out with humans, engages with humans. Superman constantly tries to engage with Superman to make sure someone is alright.

Superman isn't Mad Max or Jason Voorhees. Making Superman silent is like making Captain America, Spider-Man, and Luke Skywalker silent IN THE ORIGINAL FILMS DON'T YOU DARE BRING UP A 20 SECOND CAMEO TO A LEAD CHARACTER FOR A SUPERMAN FILM.

Superman has never been a silent type ever. That's Batman.

 

[jmc]

Time out grace has always been grace, there is a thread dedicated to her ilk. She's done plenty of her spinning against all things snyder and ayer and dceu in the recent past.
Now she's an embarrassment?

BvS has amplified things. People want to believe there's a DC bias and now they have a face with a big enough voice to support their beliefs. The fact she accused Campea of being paid off by Marvel is frankly nothing short of disgraceful. I don't care much for Campea myself as I think he comes across as too condescending with his opinions, but he had every right to call her out for what she accused him of. Grace is a prime example of the childish side of the comic community that has always existed and is now getting louder with each DC film that fails to win over the masses.

 

[shauner111]

Snyder tried turning Superman into Batman from the get-go with Man of Steel. He tried hard to make MOS like Batman Begins but it failed. Goyer is even more responsible for this. Nolan should take some of the blame for hiring Zack in the first place.

Then when we arrived at the sequel. You have a Batman-ish Superman facing Batman. So what does Snyder do with the help of Terrio (a non comic book reader)? He does what it takes to make Batman as cold and out of character as possible. Make him reeaaaally brutal, that way there's no confusion. The next order is to change Lex into a Riddler/Joker type, so the film has a bit of balance and personality.

I didn't mind a Superman who is more of an introvert at first, growing up. It would make sense considering who he is, how he can't relate to the rest of the world. But then i wouldn't use a Superman like this to cross-over with Batman. At least not until i show him as a more outgoing superhero in sequels. Have him become the Superman everyone knows, then bring Batman into it. That way you don't have to go such ridiculous, out of character extremes with the Batman, or an experimental take on Superman.

It's flawed from the get-go, because the whole concept of a more realistic Superman falls flat once you take a few seconds to realize that Superman will never be realistic. With Batman, there is always that possibility that a man can do this in real life. How far he lasts, what his gadgets are...that's up for debate. But it can happen because he's human. With Superman it falls apart unless you make him more like the comics as the series progresses. Otherwise you're dealing with a quiet, mopey Superman sequel after sequel, which ends up betraying the character and pissing off a lot of fans. It also makes people turn on Superman even more, no matter how badass you make him, because we live in a era where fun Marvel movies are delivering hit after hit. The general audience ALREADY thought Supes was boring. Now it's even worse because he doesn't show much range, humor, goofiness, as much warmth as the other versions, and he doesn't talk much. Warner Brothers shot themselves in the foot.

I also think a younger Batman would have been better. I think Goyer's original script was with a young Batman, because i recall him saying this in an interview. I also recall Snyder saying that Luthor would be a billionaire version of Brad Pitt. These original ideas were much better.

OH and that GRACE chick has always been the most annoying, unintelligent, idiot that's every been on camera.

 

[Charlatan]

No it really isn't. Batman has always been the silent type.

Superman has never been a silent type ever. That's Batman.

Sure he has. The old Max Fleischer cartoons. Kent talked but Superman didn't.

 

[Lencho01]

I feel that would only really work in a short story.

 

[HELLilac]

Dan Jurgens
‏@thedanjurgens
I think it'd be possible to make a great Superman movie in which he doesn't say a single word. Silence the key. Strong, quiet inspiration.

Well, it'd be possible if his GOOD action and personality spoke louder which obviously wasn't the case in BvS.

 

[rogue trooper]

Well, it'd be possible if his GOOD action and personality spoke louder which obviously wasn't the case in BvS.

Oh, I don't know. I thought his GOOD action in

Spoiler

sacrificing himself at the end

spoke quite loudly.

 

[HELLilac]

Oh, I don't know. I thought his GOOD action in

Spoiler

sacrificing himself at the end

spoke quite loudly.

Most people have decided they couldn't give a damn about the character at that point. If that scene had the right impact people would have come out of the theatre asking for another Superman solo and hyping about his return in JL. What a wasted opportunity.

 

[rogue trooper]

Most people have decided they couldn't give a damn about the character at that point. If that scene had the right impact people would have come out of the theatre asking for another Superman solo and hyping about his return in JL. What a wasted opportunity.

Most people? Is there like a survey that supports this?

 

[HELLilac]

Most people? Is there like a survey that supports this?

No needs for a poll. Just read the reviews/reactions from here and.. everywhere actually. Isn't it a general consensus that Batman is everyone's favourite character and WW is the most badass one?

 

[Cats]

Most people have decided they couldn't give a damn about the character at that point. If that scene had the right impact people would have come out of the theatre asking for another Superman solo and hyping about his return in JL. What a wasted opportunity.

Except we do have people on here asking for another Superman solo and hyping about his return in JL.

 

[FunkMiller]

So basically all the assertions about morals and standing for something don't mean anything
Its about making money
Batman was created to be a shadow like pulp figure who killed
Batman was turned into a more child friendly character to make more money

True. But the no kill rule is one of the reasons Batman has been as popular as he has been for 75 years. Because a child who loves him yesterday, is an adult who loves him today.