All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 1

[dallywhitty]

Batman is not suffering from PTSD. He's suffering from idiocy. There's not a single source associated with this movie that says he was suffering with PTSD or any mental illness.

Use some common sense. Bruce witnessed his parents getting gunned down in front of him when he was a young boy. Of course he's messed up.

In regards to folks complaining about Batman killing: he's killed in pretty much every live-action film. Hell, I think the only exceptions are the sixties flick and Batman & Robin. Let it go.

 

[misslane38]

Batman is not suffering from PTSD. He's suffering from idiocy. There's not a single source associated with this movie that says he was suffering with PTSD or any mental illness.

The Joker, that isn't how film criticism works. One does not look to outside sources for canon or continuity details. The only thing one can use as a source is the story. Based on the diagnostic analysis of the psychologist that you personally linked to a week ago, Bruce Wayne in BvS meets all of the criteria for PTSD. If you want to debate whether Batman was suffering from PTSD, then you are going to have to rely on the source material not what Person X, Y, or Z has said about the film.

Yeah there's a difference between what was put on screen and you projecting what you think you saw.

Not projecting at all. I'm a counselor who has actually studied PTSD in grad school. I based my analysis on the film itself and existing diagnostic criteria for PTSD. Like I said above, if you would like to argue that Bruce does not have PTSD, then please share your reasoning.

 

[THE WOLF]

Batman has never been portrayed as super intelligent or a great detective in film before

 

[The Joker]

Use some common sense. Bruce witnessed his parents getting gunned down in front of him when he was a young boy. Of course he's messed up.

Use some common sense yourself. Hundreds of thousands of children have witnessed horrible deaths of loved ones in front of them. They didn't turn out messed up. There's no text book rule that says if you witness murder of a loved one at a young age that you become psychologically damaged, especially to the point that you become an irrational murderer.

Fact not opinion.

Furthermore the movie doesn't even suggest that his parents death is why he turned into an idiot murderer. It was years of hopeless crime frighting, seeing good men go bad etc. Supposedly once upon a time he was actually a decent version of Batman before he turned moron killer.

In regards to folks complaining about Batman killing: he's killed in pretty much every live-action film. Hell, I think the only exceptions are the sixties flick and Batman & Robin. Let it go.

Nobody's going to let a bad characterization go. It has been around since the Keaton days;

This complaint is never ever going away. Best to make peace with the fact it's here to stay.

The Joker, that isn't how film criticism works. One does not look to outside sources for canon or continuity details. The only thing one can use as a source is the story. Based on the diagnostic analysis of the psychologist that you personally linked to a week ago, Bruce Wayne in BvS meets all of the criteria for PTSD. If you want to debate whether Batman was suffering from PTSD, then you are going to have to rely on the source material not what Person X, Y, or Z has said about the film.

Yes, that is exactly how film criticism works. You cannot project your own beliefs with your own self proclaimed diagnosis and state it is a fact. You've got nobody associated with this movie that supports it. If their intention was to have Batman suffering from such a significant condition that would cause him to behave this way, it would be stated by at least one person who was involved in the making of this movie. It's not a little thing that gets glossed over without a mention. A mental condition that causes a character to go off the rails.

FYI since you claim you are a trained counselor, you should know a lot of other conditions that are not PTSD have similar symptoms to it;

http://umm.edu/health/medical/altme...ar-symptoms-as-post-traumatic-stress-disorder

You can believe he has PTSD all you like. But don't come in here flaunting your supposed counselor abilities and telling us we are wrong and don't get it because we all don't subscribe to a theory you made. It's like those sexism rants you go on.

 

[Kane52630]

Not projecting at all. I'm a counselor who has actually studied PTSD in grad school. I based my analysis on the film itself and existing diagnostic criteria for PTSD. Like I said above, if you would like to argue that Bruce does not have PTSD, then please share your reasoning.

No I agree Batman has PTSD. However by your reasoning, The Room is actually an epic love tale about betrayal and sacrifice. Johnny loves Lisa and Lisa loves his best friend Mark. If you look into the analysis of the film, you can see that it deals with domestic abuse and mental disorders. The Room is a brilliant film because of all of these things.


My point is, it's how the story is executed that matters. And BvS did a poor job at doing any of that. It was more concerned at how it looks like than what it actually is.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Similar to Bruce, Johnny suffers a major loss, causing his inner psyche to tear itself apart. Really compelling stuff, if you ask me.

 

[Kane52630]

Also don't forget Denny's world into drug dealing. He was using it as a coping mechanism.

 

[writer0327]

Extremely good point. I despise the fact that Batman kills so easily in only his first outing.

But if a few movies had gone by and we'd gotten used to seeing Affleck's take, and then they'd created a decent storyline that forces Bruce into killing? That's different.

I'm all for taking established characters and doing something unique and original with them - but for Christ's sakes, let's see them actually established first, for crying out loud.

It just makes sooooooo much sense. I said it right after BvS came out, I think it was waaaay premature to film that. It should have been the 5th or 6th DCEU film at the very least. The first couple of DCEU films should have given us the classic heroic versions of these characters, not some offshoot. NOT the Superman or Batman that kills. If you want to do that, you have to earn that over the course of time with solid storytelling and character development. You can't just launch it off in film #1 of your universe. That's backwards.

 

[misslane38]

Use some common sense yourself. Hundreds of thousands of children have witnessed horrible deaths of loved ones in front of them. They didn't turn out messed up. There's no text book rule that says if you witness murder of a loved one at a young age that you become psychologically damaged, especially to the point that you become an irrational murderer.

Of course people react differently to trauma. That's the whole point of the study of psychology. How one responds to trauma depends on risk factors (e.g. genetic predisposition, childhood development, and environmental context). Because few people have identical biology, upbringings, and lifestyles, risk factors for mental illness will vary from person to person. There are aspects of Bruce Wayne, particularly this Bruce Wayne, that have coalesced to create the conditions for PTSD and mental illness.

Furthermore the movie doesn't even suggest that his parents death is why he turned into an idiot murderer. It was years of hopeless crime frighting, seeing good men go bad etc. Supposedly once upon a time he was actually a decent version of Batman before he turned moron killer.

The movie suggests the Waynes' murder was the catalyst for Bruce to use The Batman to cope with his trauma and PTSD. What happened following the death of Robin, decades of fruitless crime fighting, and most importantly the Black Zero Event, was that Bruce experienced a new trauma that also triggered a re-experiencing of the old trauma. The coping mechanisms Bruce had developed, namely The Batman, were no longer effective. He felt powerless, and that powerless led to anger and fear. He lost his way in the grips of his post traumatic stress and depression.

Yes, that is exactly how film criticism works. You cannot project your own beliefs with your own self proclaimed diagnosis and state it is a fact. You've got nobody associated with this movie that supports this phony analysis. If their intention was to have Batman suffering from such a significant condition that would cause him to behave this way, it would be stated by at least one person who was involved in the making of this movie. It's not a little thing that gets glossed over without a mention. A mental condition that causes a character to go off the rails.

Film criticism does not allow one to use interviews or outside source material to influence one's interpretation of the story. The only source that can support or refute one's reading of a film is the film itself. As soon as you have to rely solely on outside sources to prove your point, then you've already lost the argument. I am not projecting "beliefs" onto my interpretation of the film. I am using actual psychological research that has developed diagnostic criteria for PTSD to come to conclusions. You have yet to produce any actual counter-argument, using the film itself, to disprove the claim that Batman was suffering from PTSD.

FYI since you claim you are a trained counselor, you should know a lot of other conditions that are not PTSD have similar symptoms to it;

http://umm.edu/health/medical/altme...ar-symptoms-as-post-traumatic-stress-disorder

I do know that there are other conditions. I also know that PTSD is the diagnosis that fits Bruce best.

No I agree Batman has PTSD. However by your reasoning, The Room is actually an epic love tale about betrayal and sacrifice. Johnny loves Lisa and Lisa loves his best friend Mark. If you look into the analysis of the film, you can see that it deals with domestic abuse and mental disorders. The Room is a brilliant film because of all of these things.

That's not the argument I made at all.

My point is, it's how the story is executed that matters. And BvS did a poor job at doing any of that. It was more concerned at how it looks like than what it actually is.

That wasn't your point. You claimed that I was projecting onto the film by arguing Bruce was suffering from PTSD. I was not making any sort of argument about execution of Batman's arc but was only speaking to the question of whether he had an arc at all. If you agree that the film provides enough information to interpret Bruce as having PTSD, then that's all I need to know.

 

[MbJ]

Denny would have made a better Lex Luthor than Eisenberg.

 

[The Joker]

Of course people react differently to trauma. That's the whole point of the study of psychology. How one responds to trauma depends on risk factors (e.g. genetic predisposition, childhood development, and environmental context). Because few people have identical biology, upbringings, and lifestyles, risk factors for mental illness will vary from person to person. There are aspects of Bruce Wayne, particularly this Bruce Wayne, that have coalesced to create the conditions for PTSD and mental illness.

Right, so you have no factual basis to say he is definitively messed up when it is fact, not opinion, that people do not turn out mentally damaged just because they witnessed a trauma as a child.

The movie suggests the Waynes' murder was the catalyst for Bruce to use The Batman to cope with his trauma and PTSD. What happened following the death of Robin, decades of fruitless crime fighting, and most importantly the Black Zero Event, was that Bruce experienced a new trauma that also triggered a re-experiencing of the old trauma. The coping mechanisms Bruce had developed, namely The Batman, were no longer effective. He felt powerless, and that powerless led to anger and fear. He lost his way in the grips of his post traumatic stress and depression.

The movie doesn't suggest anything about PTSD. Nobody and nothing associated with this movie does. The movie suggests what every version of Batman suggests; that Bruce used his Batman persona to act out the injustice he feels at what happened to his parents. To rid the city of the kind of crime that took his parents' lives.

What happened following the death of Robin is he simply just got fed up and lost all logic and reasoning for no valid reason. His war on crime had not changed. The results he was getting in his crusade had not changed. He simply abandoned logic and rational thought out of some moronic anger he felt over being a hopeless crime fighter.

Film criticism does not allow one to use interviews or outside source material to influence one's interpretation of the story. The only source that can support or refute one's reading of a film is the film itself. As soon as you have to rely solely on outside sources to prove your point, then you've already lost the argument. I am not projecting "beliefs" onto my interpretation of the film. I am using actual psychological research that has developed diagnostic criteria for PTSD to come to conclusions. You have yet to produce any actual counter-argument, using the film itself, to disprove the claim that Batman was suffering from PTSD.

They do when you are trying, emphasis on the word trying, to present something you simply believe as a fact. That is projecting your own beliefs. You are not presenting anything as a fact, just because you think it is one. Your supposed credentials on this don't mean diddly squat. You are still presenting a theory, one that is easily refuted as many other conditions can mimic PTSD and the biggest clincher of all, you have not got an iota of back up from the people who made this movie supporting your PTSD theory.

This is why you reach for outside "sources" to try and make your argument sound credible, like your trained counselor claim, or Lady Gaga songs, and Donald Trump analogies in these debates. Because nothing from the movie itself can back you up.

Same with your sexism claims, too.

I do know that there are other conditions. I also think that PTSD is the diagnosis that fits Bruce best.

Fixed.

 

[Zarex]

Along with Superman shooting rainbow beams from his fingers.

He can also create tiny duplicates of himself from those fingers. It's canon!

 

[misslane38]

Right, so you have no factual basis to say he is definitively messed up when it is fact, not opinion, that people do not turn out mentally damaged just because they witnessed a trauma as a child.



The movie doesn't suggest anything about PTSD. Nobody and nothing associated with this movie does. The movie suggests what every version of Batman suggests; that Bruce used his Batman persona to act out the injustice he feels at what happened to his parents. To rid the city of the kind of crime that took his parents' lives.

What happened following the death of Robin is he simply just got fed up and lost all logic and reasoning for no valid reason. His war on crime had not changed. The results he was getting in his crusade had not changed. He simply abandoned logic and rational thought out of some moronic anger he felt over being a hopeless crime fighter.



They do when you are trying, emphasis on the word trying, to present something you simply believe as a fact. That is projecting your own beliefs. You are not presenting anything as a fact, just because you think it is one. Your supposed credentials on this don't mean diddly squat. You are still presenting a theory, one that is easily refuted as many other conditions can mimic PTSD and the biggest clincher of all, you have not got an iota of back up from the people who made this movie supporting your PTSD theory.

This is why you reach for outside "sources" to try and make your argument sound credible, like your trained counselor claim, or Lady Gaga songs, and Donald Trump analogies in these debates. Because nothing from the movie itself can back you up.

Same with your sexism claims, too.



Fixed.

I still do not see you making any attempt to dispute or break down how Bruce does not meet the diagnostic criteria for PTSD. I have used the film to back up my interpretation. You are the one holding up outside sources as the beginning and end of film criticism (i.e. If no one who worked on the film says it is true, then it cannot be true). I even used one of your outside sources as a basis to make my claim that Bruce has PTSD, and you still have yet to produce a counter-argument. You know what, though? Don't even bother. We do not have to beat this dead horse when we can just agree to disagree.

 

[The Joker]

I still do not see you making any attempt to dispute or break down how Bruce does not meet the diagnostic criteria for PTSD. I have used the film to back up my interpretation. You are the one holding up outside sources as the beginning and end of film criticism (i.e. If no one who worked on the film says it is true, then it cannot be true). I even used one of your outside sources as a basis to make my claim that Bruce has PTSD, and you still have yet to produce a counter-argument. You know what, though? Don't even bother. We do not have to beat this dead horse when we can just agree to disagree.

I already have. Other conditions have similar symptoms to PTSD. I am not using outside sources as the beginning and end of the film. You are. I don't use Lady Gaga, Donald Trump, or try and drag my profession into this to state something as factual about a movie. People who made this movie are not outside sources. They are as inside a source as you can get since they made it, they know what way they were intending to write the character and portray him. If Batman was supposed to be some PTSD damaged person who lost his way because of it and turned into an idiotic reckless killer, that is a huge significant detail about the reason why he turned this way, and would be mentioned many times in the character discussions of Batman. But there isn't so much as a whisper about it.

So what exactly are you asking me to counter argue here? Your trained counselor based theory? Been there, done that. Nothing but your own theory.

 

[Erzengel]

I don't think Shane Black has gone on record to say that Tony had PTSD after the Battle of NY but the nightmares*, panic attacks, lack of sleep, erratic and compulsive behavior are more of an indication and explained better than with Bruce in BvS. As well as Tony admitting to his behavior.

* Yes, Bruce had "knightmares" but at least Tony's showed flashbacks of the Battle of NY. Events that happened not will happen.

 

[The Joker]

I don't think Shane Black has gone on record to say that Tony had PTSD after the Battle of NY but the nightmares*, panic attacks, lack of sleep, erratic and compulsive behavior are more of an indication and explained better than with Bruce in BvS. As well as Tony admitting to his behavior.

* Yes, Bruce had "knightmares" but at least Tony's showed flashbacks of the Battle of NY. Events that happened not will happen.

Actually Downey confirmed it;

Q. Your character has post-traumatic stress disorder but still keeps on moving forward. How did you achieve that balance?
Robert Downey Jr: Again, what I really liked about this was that it was a post-Avengers world. So, we just asked the question: “Wouldn’t he be a little freaked out?” And then that was part of the theme. Sir Ben [Kingsley] is right. We didn’t rest on our laurels. The trauma thing was, again, getting away from The Avengers because we can’t beat the spectacle of that so let’s ask what would it actually be like when we got back into Tony’s world.

http://www.indielondon.co.uk/Film-Review/iron-man-3-robert-downey-jr-interview

 

[DrCosmic]

He can also create tiny duplicates of himself from those fingers. It's canon!

Everything about this panel is wonderful.

 

[TeeKay]

Starks actions in IM3 are justifiable because we know he suffered from PTSD. Bruce however is an idiot. I always say the biggest example of this is that that Bat mobile chase. Batman is on that crane thing with his sniper-tracker gun. We get a CLOSE UP shot of the crates coming out of the vehicle he will be shooting his tracker on to. Those crates say LEXCORP.Then he shoots a giant ****in tracker SUPER OBVIOUS onto the back of the truck. Then he proceeds to start a shootout with the Lexcorp guys and ends up almost destroying the truck with tracker.

Actually screw logic, why did he place a tracker on the truck if he was gonna end up shooting it out with the Lexcorp guys? Would he not have waited until they got to Lexcorp then break in and steal the kryptonite anyways ( and I don't wanna hear the "oh Batman was on the edge, he was ruthless blah blah.)Then the truck is pulling into Lexcorp later while Batfleck is backfleck at the batfleck-cave watching on his cameras saying OH **** THAT ****S GOING TO LEXCORP.Not to mention, the idiocy of being perched on top of a crane in plain sight with a huge sniper rifle, in order to shoot a huge tracer with a loud beep and a blinking red-light on it. Stupid stupid idiot.

 

[Kane52630]

Denny would have made a better Lex Luthor than Eisenberg.

Most definitely.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Actually Downey confirmed it;

Q. Your character has post-traumatic stress disorder but still keeps on moving forward. How did you achieve that balance?
Robert Downey Jr: Again, what I really liked about this was that it was a post-Avengers world. So, we just asked the question: “Wouldn’t he be a little freaked out?” And then that was part of the theme. Sir Ben [Kingsley] is right. We didn’t rest on our laurels. The trauma thing was, again, getting away from The Avengers because we can’t beat the spectacle of that so let’s ask what would it actually be like when we got back into Tony’s world.

More than that, we are clearly shown in the film itself that Stark does suffer from it. If Batman was meant to suffer from PTSD, then Snyder completely failed in getting that across. So he either doesn't, or you can chalk it up to poor film-making.

 

[OutOfBoose]

What if the chase is unsuccessful and Batman loses the truck? He gets the second chance later. Or he can get the stuff right away if the chase is a success. There's no need to try to get it later from LexCorp. He can get it now. It doesn't paint Batman as an idiot.

 

[StarLord]

WB Courts Mel Gibson To Direct Suicide Squad Sequel

Mel Gibson is mulling joining the DC Cinematic Universe … as a director.

Warner Bros. is courting the actor-director to helm Suicide Squad 2 and the sides are early in talks, The Hollywood Reporter has learned. No official offer has been made nor has any commitment.

Sources say that Gibson is familiarizing himself with the material. But the studio is not being passive and it also looking at other directors, Daniel Espinosa among them.

David Ayer directed the initial outing, which featured an all-star cast that included Will Smith, Margot Robbie and Jared Leto. The movie faced some hurdles during production and was met with somewhat polarizing response, but grossed $745 million worldwide, enough to put a sequel on the fast-track.

Ayer is now developing a project that reunites him with Robbie and focuses on the female villains of the DC Universe.

Squad told the story of villains such as Deadshot, Harley Quinn, the Joker, Captain Boomerang and Killer Croc who are forced into the service of the government in exchange for lighter sentences.

The fact that Gibson, riding high thanks to his Oscar-nominated war movie Hacksaw Ridge, is being courted by Warners marks a remarkable turnaround for the actor-director. His image took a hit in the 2000s after a drunk driving arrest and anti-Semitic comments, and he found himself losing studio work.

Gibson did nab a cameo in The Hangover: Part II - a movie being by Warners - but a backlash within the studio and parts of the cast ended with him being unceremoniously dropped.

But Hacksaw is seen as a major turning point for Gibson. His biopic of conscientious objector Desmond Doss nabbed six Oscar nominations, including one for Gibson for best director, and has made $164 million worldwide.

And he has found himself fielding a slew of offers, both from studios and indies. He is now in talks to join Will Ferrell and Mark Walhberg for Paramount's Daddy’s Home 2 and is reteaming with Hacksaw actor Vince Vaughn for the gritty crime indie Dragged Across Concrete.

 

[Kane52630]

It's gonna fall apart before the first shooting day.

 

[Boom]

A Mel Gibson Suicide Squad movie?

Oh I'll believe that when I see it.

 

[Jekecy]

It may be completely nothing, but I find it damn interesting guys like Ridley and Gibson are being approached now for these films, when just months ago they were publicly trashing the DCEU.

Is this WB actively trying to turn things around by convincing these 'auteurs' who look down on these studio productions? It certainly goes a long way if they can nab even just one of them.