All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

[Willi Berg]

Wonder Woman's character embodies the misogyny of comic books.

I don't think it's fair to make broad statements like this. Yes, there is debate among women about why WW wears a skimpy outfit and how important looks are for her character. But she has been a feminist symbol for generations. She was on the cover of the first issue of Ms. Magazine and was recently on the cover of the 40th anniv. edition. (Ms. Magazine is a prominent feminist magazine.)

I like WW's costume, including the way it has been updated for the New 52. It has been toned down in terms of colour in the New 52 and does look less "patriotic" while still retaining core elements.

And I really don't see how "Wonder Woman" as a name is that much different than Superman, Batman etc.

Wonder Woman has lasted as a superhero/heroine for decades for a reason. In her own titles and part of the JL. If you read her origins and history you see why, and you also see that writers do have trouble with her and it shows, but some do get her right. And of course, male writers tend to be less enthused about her than the male superheroes, because they usually don't get her character.

 

[TheAQU4M4N]

t:

I wanted to say I absolutely LOVE the new symbol on his chest. Looks updated, but without losing the shape of the original -unlike in Returns-.

Totally agree, I was let down when I first saw that image of route in the suit.

 

[Smallville13]

Like someone else had mentioned before, I'm definitely interesting in seeing if they do plan on applying on the concept of having two distinct worlds clashing into one another in this film in terms of the realistic world that we live in versus the fantasy/alien genre that comes with Superman's heritage.

I mean looking at the official teaser, it really gave off the mood that the world superman was in was very realistic looking; of that of our own, yet from what we've seen from the comic con footage and other stuff, they're going all out with the alien stuff, so to see those two potential contrasts coming together into one is exciting.

This is actually gonna be one of the hardest sells for Snyder and I thought it was something that Watchmen suffered from a bit. Don't get me wrong it's in my top 3 superhero films. But that film started with the notion that this is our world except history has just played out a bit differently in the last century. But then halfway through the film it's feet lose the ground a bit and the Snyder slowmo kicks in and physics become a bit more skewed.

I thought Kick-ash suffered from this even more with the whole 'let's deconstruct superheroes and why they'd never work in our society cause they'd just die and gravity hurts'. Then suddenly a 12-year old is murdering '****s' (is that allowed in here?) and jetpacks and ridiculousness. The 2nd half of the film betrayed what the 1st had already defined.When a film goes through a whole tonal shift halfway it just falls apart.

Just because we're getting Krypton and Black Zero spaceships and robot armies though doesn't mean it can't be portrayed as realistically as possible. WETA knows their craft. And I remember Snyder quoted in an interview before filming started that they were doing a lot of research into the real-world physics and how all the fantastic elements would actually look.

 

[Willi Berg]

This is actually gonna be one of the hardest sells for Snyder and I thought it was something that Watchmen suffered from a bit. Don't get me wrong it's in my top 3 superhero films. But that film started with the notion that this is our world except history has just played out a bit differently in the last century. But then halfway through the film it's feet lose the ground a bit and the Snyder slowmo kicks in and physics become a bit more skewed.

I thought Kick-ash suffered from this even more with the whole 'let's deconstruct superheroes and why they'd never work in our society cause they'd just die and gravity hurts'. Then suddenly a 12-year old is murdering '****s' (is that allowed in here?) and jetpacks and ridiculousness. The 2nd half of the film betrayed what the 1st had already defined.When a film goes through a whole tonal shift halfway it just falls apart.

Just because we're getting Krypton and Black Zero spaceships and robot armies though doesn't mean it can't be portrayed as realistically as possible. WETA knows their craft. And I remember Snyder quoted in an interview before filming started that they were doing a lot of research into the real-world physics and how all the fantastic elements would actually look.

You make good points. I remember hearing complaints that the fights in Watchmen weren't rough enough, that it was all slick slo-mo etc.

And there was a tonal shift in Kick-ash for the second half that took something away, esp. with the climax.

As for making sci-fi "realistic"...Snyder did make a point of saying he was trying to do that for this movie. I guess it worked in movies like District 9, and we see evidence of Snyder trying to do that in the teaser- the cinematography, the shaky cam/zoom in on Superman flying...

 

[Micromind]

District 9 and Chronicle are good examples of SciFi merging with grounded approach.

But, I don't think that MOS will be anything like that.

 

[Micromind]

Also, I am surprised by negativity towards including Wonder Woman in Justice League in the previous posts. lol.


If fans are bad place bent on not including WW and Superman in JL movie and if they want to follow a grounded approach, then I would suggest a team like -

Batman, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Steel and Mr. Terrific.

There is your grounded team for JL.

 

[Willi Berg]

District 9 and Chronicle are good examples of SciFi merging with grounded approach.

But, I don't think that MOS will be anything like that.

I don't mean the documentary style, but I do think, visually, Snyder will try to make the effects more integrated to a realistic/naturalistic setting like in those movies.

 

[ElDuderino]

Wonder Woman... difficult to adapt? Okay, I guess those doubting the concept weren't paying attention to Thor's success.

People love Greek mythology, so Wonder Woman shouldn't be a hassle to sell. If she's approached with a great sense of pride and passion, she'll be sought out for more.

As for her outfit, don't count on the patriotic look. My guess is she'll fashion the New 52 look with ceremonial armor from Themyscira (whenever she engages or is heading into battle).

Not sure why anyone would compare Thor to WW. Thor's a cake walk compared to WW.

 

[AnneFan]

Wonder Woman is a complicated character both in her mythos and fitting her into our world so that men and women can enjoy it. A big part is her masculinity in a man's world. She's got to be a man, whilst being a woman without being a lesbian. She's got to still be an Amazon. They can't have her totally assimilated within 30 minutes.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Not sure why anyone would compare Thor to WW. Thor's a cake walk compared to WW.

Not really.

 

[Project862006]

You make good points. I remember hearing complaints that the fights in Watchmen weren't rough enough, that it was all slick slo-mo etc.

And there was a tonal shift in Kick-ash for the second half that took something away, esp. with the climax.

As for making sci-fi "realistic"...Snyder did make a point of saying he was trying to do that for this movie. I guess it worked in movies like District 9, and we see evidence of Snyder trying to do that in the teaser- the cinematography, the shaky cam/zoom in on Superman flying...

thought visually x men films balances grounded realism and sci fi even tho people hate it x men 3 visually was great to look at

 

[Willi Berg]

thought visually x men films balances grounded realism and sci fi even tho people hate it x men 3 visually was great to look at

I think MOS is pushing it further, hence the "Terrence Malick" comments. We have to see more footage to really see what Snyder is doing, though.

 

[terry78]

^They also took supporting roles to their male team members or adversaries, and the one that did get her own flick bombed insanely. Well, scratch that...the two. Elektra.

 

[Project862006]

i honestly dont see what is so hard thor's costume and cap's costume were far harder to adapt

give ww a battle skirt she does'nt have to wear trunks

 

[Willi Berg]

Yes, it has been derailed BUT I just find it disheartening when people deride Wonder Woman because she is not considered as "cool" as subsequent female superheroes when Superman suffers from the same criticisms (i.e. that superheroes have moved on from him, with cooler powers, costumes, gadgets etc.) when he and WW were the pioneers and originals in a lot of ways.

 

[The Shield]

Does anyone else remember way back when MOS first started to get going we thought that we would get news every sunday? LOL I just thought about that. I think we were calling it Super Sundays or some such. How wrong we were! hahaha

 

[Joeyjojo72]

I think they need to start showing the clip of Supes

Spoiler

getting thrown into the bank vault

. That scene alone - what I could make out from the crappy phone cam - is what brought me from the skeptical column into the cautiously optimistic column. Looked like next level s*** to me. The characterizations are still paramount, but its critical that MoS shows us stuff we have never seen before.

Havent liked a Zach Snyder movie since Dawn of the Dead, but everything I've seen so far has gotten me more excited.

 

[The Shield]

OMG! ironman gets a sneak teaser to promote their world premiere trailer on Tuesday??? Sigh.... huff and puff... lol This sucks.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Well Iron Man comes out a month earlier right?

So fingers crossed we start getting a little something late November/early December. Which would be a great little lead up to the trailer being released with The Hobbit.

 

[solidsnake86]

Iron Man has also had zero footage shown. MOS will have the trailer in December.

 

[Mindreaper21]

I hope we get something along with the TDKR dvd release.

 

[herolee10]

Well assuming if a new trailer is released, one that HAD BETTER be AT LEAST 2 MINUTES LONG, in December, then we're just a good 2 months away from that.

Feels like yesterday when I just woke up and came on to read about MOS's panel at Comic Con.

 

[solidsnake86]

^The good thing is they will have had enough time to give us a money shot or two. The one thing I hate when trailers are released is when five minutes later in breaks into a discussion about whether the CG is finished or not.

 

[herolee10]

^The good thing is they will have had enough time to give us a money shot or two. The one thing I hate when trailers are released is when five minutes later in breaks into a discussion about whether the CG is finished or not.

By all accounts, this film will have more stuff completed when it comes to Post Production than Iron Man 3 would despite the fact that Iron Man 3 is slated to release a month early due to MOS's filming schedule, so yeah, I'm hoping that the next trailer, which I hope will be released before the end of the year will blow us away.

 

[DaJanksta]

Crowe is looking more in shape from the set of his Noah Movie.