Discussion in 'Man of Steel' started by Thread Manager, Jan 9, 2013.
Agreed, and i'll add my own wishes..
A team up film with Flash and MM in late 2015.
Either a rebooted GL or a GL ( new actor ) and WW team up in 2016.
I feel strongly that they should do either solo or team up films BEFORE making JL.
That update looks amazing! Do you sculpt by any chance??
Amazing manip poster. And the colors of the suit are absolutely perfect for this version.
I'd be hesitant about that, just as a fan of Superman since the person has made it no secret that he enjoys writing for Batman a whole of a lot more and whenever the two have been put on the same screen in his worlds, batman is the one that comes out looking better on every sense.
Does anyone else think that JL could work as a back-to-back film or trilogy done in the timeframe as LOTR or am I by myself here?
Honestly; no at the moment. The LOTR franchise knew where they'd go and that the story was already a proven success for those who have read it; JL doesn't have the luxury, and suppose that the first film really bombed, then they'd have wasted time and money on the stuff that they had filmed for the other sequels.
Plus on another note, I'm in no rush to see another Batman film, even in 2015...Warner Bros. should make the fans and audience starve for Batman again in the sense where they should wait awhile, otherwise the new batman film will come off as just "another" batman film, regardless of the fact that it's a reboot; it will still be in the shadows of the previous and successful trilogy before it.
I rather make MOS 2 a World's Finest thing than having a new Batman solo movie.
Forget Justice League, forget Batman, Flash, and Wonder Woman. All I want is Man of Steel.
Well we're definitely getting MOS, it's only what we're getting (or not getting) after it that concerns me.
Until I see that these other DC movies have directors and begin casting I'm going to pretend they don't exist.
I understand your point, but just because LOTR was a beloved book and had somewhat of a fanbase there was no indicator before the first movie that LOTR would be a success. Fans weren't dressing up as hobbits for cosplay at cons and people weren't quoting the books before hand. It was a loved book, but really only remembered and significant to a select group...the dungeons and dragons crowd. Then once word of the film got out and more information was released people and not just fans were eager for it's arrival. After the film it was LOTR mania.
I think if JL took a similar approach it would no doubt have the same success & response with fams. 2015/16 is more than enough time to get the right cast, writer, script and director and produce a quality JL film.
Yeah the first film could bomb and the rest of the money and time could be a waste or they would have to go back and shoot post-production to make some tweaks and changes, but almost all films in a franchise take that risk. Any film is a gamble. Heck MoS might do well in the box office in its first two weeks, but turn out to be a huge upset for fans and critics and even the general audience. It may turn out to be too "real" or "natural" or gloomy looking or worse boring and slow.
Everyone thought SR would be a good film and for some it was, but for the most people it fell waaaayyyy short.
I just think that people outside of filmmaking tend to think so linear about how films should be made, especially since DC is looking to introduce their universe much in the same way as Marvel. Marvel's success with each of their films and Avengers has become like this blueprint for how comic movies should be made in order to be successful. If Marvel had bombed with Avengers or with their formula then people would be saying well solo films before an ensemble isn't the way to go or needed. They just spent too much time building up and not putting enough into their solo films and their ensemble film fell short etc. etc. However, because Marvel was successful everyone now thinks that DC needs to follow their playbook, when they don't IMO.
DC could very easily do a LOTR or STM style JL film by shooting back to back and releasing the films in consecutive years and then branching off each hero for their solo films or tv series. That way we don't spend 3-4 movies just telling origins. The JL film could establish the characters as seasoned heroes, while giving bits of their history and then moving into a pseudo-origin/developed hero in the solo efforts.
I can also understand that viewpoint. However, Id respectively argue that with LOTR, they not only knew where the story would start and end for their franchise, but they didnt have to worry about messing up with events for any spin off films.
Honestly, even though Marvel has already done it, theres nothing wrong with having solo films that deal more into the back story and mindset for some of the heroes on the roster, and by having three consecutive JLA films released, they limit on what they can tell in the solo stories, let alone the chance of seeing on how some of the characters can be shown to have developed during the time in between each ensemble film.
Plus, some of these guys have yet to ever grace the big screen period, so they have a lot of materials that they could go by without having to worry about copying any previous take of the character on the big screen; so itd be nice to really devote some films to these characters to see where they came from.
Id also argue that by giving some of these heroes their own solo films, whether it be before or after the first JLA film, then theres a chance that they could win over new fans for certain solo heroes and thus enrich the experience of seeing some of these characters for when theyre on their own adventures versus on when theyre doing things together.
Plus, by seeing on where and what some of these characters/heroes have experienced in their own films, then those things could be translated well into what those characters could be dealing with when going into any sequel/new film for the JLA franchise.
And if people think/feel that the fact that were having a JLA film coming out sooner or later feels rushed, well imagine on how ppl will feel if they attempted to have three coming out as well.
I definitely understand and agree with a lot of what you wrote. I just think that it would be interesting and something never done before and could really work and put DC in their own league with something that is their own rather than people saying that Marvel already beat them to it and now they have a lot to live up to. That nonsense is getting tiring/annoying.
However, I definitely agree with many if not all your points. I just assume that people know so much already about JL, even non fans from the old cartoons of Superfriends etc., Batman's various outlets & Superman.
I do disagree that although people, moreso fans, knew where the LOTR would begin and end, the JL has the benefit of telling any story they want that can lead into each character's own solo project and help their success rather than hinder the projects. I think if Peter Jackson was behind the film and proposed a date of 2015 for the first JL film 2016, 2017 for the films that followed it wouldn't be rushed if done correctly.
However, I'm all for the traditional formulaic setup of multiple solo films and then a big ensemble piece. I just feel that there are so many things that could come up that would keep pushing JL back.
Justice League in 2016 is a great move. IMO they need to either do a Batman and Superman movie or a DC Trinity movie along with a movie of a couple Obscure DC characters. THATS the way to lead to a JL movie.
2013 Man of Steel
2015 DC Trinity & Aquaman
2016 Green Lantern Corps & Justice League
Is there not a danger of the novelty factor being lost coming out after not one, but two Avengers flicks? The second of which will no doubt rise above formula (by virtue of being the sequel) and deliver something of substance? Therefore JLA can't be a safe team up flick like the Avengers.
True; no matter which way it's done, there will always be pros and cons to it. I honestly don't think though that we can use the basis of these heroes having appeared on so many JL outlets on television, namely cartoons, and plus, with the JL Film, I honestly believe that one of the key aspects to emphasize on is that these remarkable heroes, who are established on their own, must come together in order to face a bigger foe; hell, it's something that Marvel kept emphasizing on when they were making "The Avengers", because while the Justice League is a group, it's not like so many other superhero groups where the heroes that it's consisted of are only known due to their affiliation with their respective groups; it's a group that's made up of well known solo heroes, hence the extra value of them uniting as one cohesive unit, and if there aren't any solo films down the line to introduce these heroes or expand on them, then it's very possible imho that their film counterparts will be lost within the identity of the group itself, hence the importance of some of these guys needing to have their own solo films in between or before some JLA films in order to expand on that and on their histories because I can guarantee many folks that a lot of the GA don't know much about the origins of some of these characters.
Personally, I rather have a sequel to MOS come out before any team up films. IF MOS especially does well in its performance then it DESERVES to have its own sequel within the next three years and the hell with a JLA film for pushing it aside when a sequel to a potentially successful MOS film is more likely to reel in profits than a questionable JL film.
Well, one could also argue that the films from the MCU are rather safe/tame when it comes to how they approach their materials at times; i mean, with most of their films, it seems like they're too afraid or are holding themselves back from going all out with certain materials or aspects that the films are covering on.
I like the idea of a JL movie where the threat and conflict is so great that it would take a trilogy to resolve. The threat in The Avengers was more bark and less bite IMO.
I think they could forgo the solo movies of The Flash, WW etc because they'd have three movies to set up their character and use that as a launch pad for their solo movies later on.
I think a big part of what made Avengers so successful was that each of the main characters were established. There was one character that they needed to establish and get right so as not to bring the whole production down: The Hulk. One character. Hell even the villain was established. Now how many characters has WB got to knock out of the park inside of ~150mins. Well not Batman and Superman, let's give them that. At least five other heroes though, not too mention somehow avoid association with the dreck that was Green Lantern. Plus they have to somehow flesh out Darkseid as well.
Disney/Marvel put the time in and really worked hard to position everything right for Avengers. They basically showed WB how to do it. But WB doesn't care, they want their cake and they want to eat it now without having to do the hard yards.
Solo films are the way to go. They show if the characters can stand on their own 2 feet first. They'll also be an indicator for WB to see if they can maintain a coherent tone across multiple films and very different characters and story styles. So when they inevitably don't, someone smart inside WB will be able to point to them and show how it would harm what Nolan/Snyder have done with their films if they tried to merge.
Edit: Oh and the excuse and reasoning that the JLU animated shows already establish these characters to the GA is bull. Not good enough.
I couldn't agree with this more. If solo movies resolve in 1 movie, then team-ups should span multiple...Especially when dealing with Darkseid, Murder World, and possibly the New Gods!
Agreed; if there are any characters that shouldn't be given solo films right away, it should be the ones that many would feel would have the hardest time carrying a film on their own, thus wait and see on how critics and fans react towards their presence in the ensemble. I mean, the Hulk became a force to reckon with again once the Avengers was released because he was done right in that film, as opposed to his last two solo films.
And I'd say, have Batman introduced in the JLA film since he needs more time to wait before he has a solo film himself.
Or even better IMO:
Man of Steel (2013)
Flash, Wonder Woman or GL-reboot (2014)
Man of Steel 2 (2016)
World's Finest (part Batman-reboot/re-introduction) (2017)
Man of Steel 3 (2019)
Justice League (2020)
On another note, I just watched the animated featured "The Dark Knight Returns: Part 2", the one that featured Superman, and dear Lord...I Pray that we NEVER...EVER have to see ANY LIVE ACTION VERSION of Superman be written that way.
I mean seriously, the way that Superman was portrayed in that film/story-line, he's no hero at all. He's just a government stooge/lackey.
Which is why I HOPE that when Superman surrenders himself to the Military in MOS, that he's shown to still have some backbone and that he's surrendering himself on his own terms, not theirs.
What if MOS3 is a definitive end though like if they did something similar to the end of All-Star or even Doomsday?