All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 57

[DarthSkywalker]

STID into darkness made a big point about 'playing god' and changing the destiny of another entire civilization by interfering with them. All I can say is I hope Jor-El has some good reasoning. Other than 'they won't be able to kill him there because he'll be a god'. It's a fairly hot potato.

Yeah, it is called saving his son's life. It has been like that since the beginning. What kind of question is that?

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Well that calendar is underwhelming, looks pretty bad to be honest.

 

[Sharkboy]

Yeah, it is called saving his son's life. It has been like that since the beginning. What kind of question is that?

 

[Smallville13]

Yeah, it is called saving his son's life. It has been like that since the beginning. What kind of question is that?

Yes but all the times before he didn't even know he was sending his son to Earth and just by pure luck or faith did the Kals ship end up there. I liked the New 52 explanation that the Brainiac AI in the ship traveled to find a suitable planet.

Seriously Jor-El just imposing a god on Earth is really kind of messed up, even if it's to save his sons life. It's completely disregarding of our natural progression and achievements. Look at Millar's Red Son for the reasons where it can all go wrong.

 

[Smallville13]

Is the life of one worth more than changing the destiny and potentially hurting the lives of an entire civilization?

Seriously the whole destiny Jor-El bestows on his son is really the only negative I can see of this film for me. The whole 'You will be this to them' and 'You have to keep testing your limits' etc.

At least it's not as far as the early Kryptonian Prince rumors. But it's still a bit disappointing. I think the sum of the films parts will rise above this and still be the best thing ever for me though.

 

[Kane52630]

avvys for anyone to use...

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Kane52630]

 

[supermanbat]

just been watching jeremy kyle on itv2 and i thought i was seeing things on the adverts BOOM!! the s shield shown up for about a secound then book tickets now man of steel on the advert after that. exciting times!!

 

[KryptoKnight13]

Has the tv spot where Jor el tells him to keep testing his limits shown up online anywhere? I still haven't seen it.

 

[Misha]

Is the life of one worth more than changing the destiny and potentially hurting the lives of an entire civilization?

Seriously the whole destiny Jor-El bestows on his son is really the only negative I can see of this film for me. The whole 'You will be this to them' and 'You have to keep testing your limits' etc.

I always saw it like this: Here's Jor-El sending his son to this little planet, knowing what kind of powers he would develop. Kal-El is going to have every chance out there to survive. So Jor-El knows that he's either sending us the best thing ever, or our worst nightmare. In that case, he makes it his business to hammer it on in Kal-El that he's good. That he has to be an example. That nothing short of being a bright light would be acceptable. Because the opposite would be disastrous to all parties involved.

He was trying to protect his son and us in some way, but he was not going to let his son die.

 

[Sharkboy]

just been watching jeremy kyle on itv2 and i thought i was seeing things on the adverts BOOM!! the s shield shown up for about a secound then book tickets now man of steel on the advert after that. exciting times!!

Hahaha.

 

[Dr.]

Yes but all the times before he didn't even know he was sending his son to Earth and just by pure luck or faith did the Kals ship end up there...

Seriously Jor-El just imposing a god on Earth is really kind of messed up, even if it's to save his sons life. It's completely disregarding of our natural progression and achievements.

Actually... From the earliest stories, Earth is mentioned as Kal-El’s intended destination. Moreover, it’s established (and/or Jor-El seems to know) that Kal-El will have superhuman advantages on Earth. So the “Prime Directive violation” (as it were ) was there - or at least implicit - from the very beginning.

 

[Smallville13]

I always saw it like this: Here's Jor-El sending his son to this little planet, knowing what kind of powers he would develop. Kal-El is going to have every chance out there to survive. So Jor-El knows that he's either sending us the best thing ever, or our worst nightmare. In that case, he makes it his business to hammer it on in Kal-El that he's good. That he has to be an example. That nothing short of being a bright light would be acceptable. Because the opposite would be disastrous to all parties involved.

He was trying to protect his son and us in some way, but he was not going to let his son die.

Yeah that sounds about right. I hope it's made explicit in the film. But why then have his scout ship nowhere near where he landed, and for him to find when he's 'of age'. There's alot of things that could go wrong before then, esp. if Kal landed in like North Korea or something. I mean it's the right way to go in a version where Jor-El is consciously sending Kal to Earth and aware of how powerful he will be. He basically comes up with Kals whole future to be Earth's savior.

There was a great post on here by someone who said that it seems Jor-Els intentions don't seem too noble. That his love for his son, outweighs any consequence to everyone on Earth. It's an interesting way to go. Kind've puts his mortality and ethics into question and this is what Clark will struggle with when he learns about this, because he's grown up there his whole life and knows the people of Earth and how back-setting it could be to out himself as a god amongst them.

 

[Smallville13]

Actually... From the earliest stories, Earth is mentioned as Kal-El’s intended destination. Moreover, it’s established (and/or Jor-El seems to know) that Kal-El will have superhuman advantages on Earth. So the “Prime Directive violation” (as it were ) was there - or at least implicit - from the very beginning.

Really? In the early Siegel and Shuster stories? It's not like the origin tellings I'm familiar with.

 

[moviefreak]

Friendtold me that Star TrekID was all right. I loled because I have no idea if he enjoyed it. I probably will when I go to see it later, and I will also not to expect a deeply intelligent sci-fi film. Abram is incapable of it (so does Snyder).

I never really got it as a kid. I never really understood Star Trek. It felt very talky and still to me. I have come to appreciate what it is and what it means. - JJ Abrams

I don't expect Star Wars to be any better.

My favourite sci-fic director Ridley Scott got nutured by FOX's messy wonder boy Damon Lindelof on Prometheus. That film had a very promising sci-fi concept, a nice script by Jon Spaihts before Lindelof came on boardto add his gobbledygooks.

I'm still on fend with respect to Goyer's sci-fi take on Superman. It may turn out o.k. but not spectacular.

 

[Mysteryman]

If earth is a place where Kal El will have Superpowers, I am sure there were other enviroments Jorel could have sent his son where he would be WEAKER .
Jor El chose the place where his son would be safest .
I am sure that was his first priority .

 

[Compi716]

Really? In the early Siegel and Shuster stories? It's not like the origin tellings I'm familiar with.

Yeah, you should probably read some Post-Crisis origin stories. In Byrne's MOS, not only does Jor-El tell Lara he's send Kal to Earth, but he says that he'll be landing in Kansas, and shows her a picture of the place.

She reacts negatively, of course.

 

[elgaz]

Is the life of one worth more than changing the destiny and potentially hurting the lives of an entire civilization?

Seriously the whole destiny Jor-El bestows on his son is really the only negative I can see of this film for me. The whole 'You will be this to them' and 'You have to keep testing your limits' etc.

At least it's not as far as the early Kryptonian Prince rumors. But it's still a bit disappointing. I think the sum of the films parts will rise above this and still be the best thing ever for me though.

We have to keep in mind also that Krypton is not like Earth. Their cultures and beliefs could be radically different to ours. We already know that children are genetically modified before birth so their place in society (as a soldier, scientist or whatever) is already decided for them. Their destiny is already written, somewhat. Jor-El deciding on a future for his son may be totally normal to them.

Jor-El's words could be those of a controlling father deciding his son's path in life, true. But they could also be prophetic. He's a scientist. He knows what effect the yellow sun will have on Kal-El. And he knows Earth is many hundreds - perhaps thousands - of years behind Krypton in terms of evolution. Perhaps he is simply being a realist by speculating that Earth people will look up to Kal-El and he will be a wonder to them.

Remember, Jor-El is not sending his son to Earth with the idea that a farmer and his wife will find him and keep his powers hidden for most of his adolescence. He's sending him to Earth simply to save his life, but fully believing that Kal-El will probably be known as a visitor to the planet from the moment his ship lands.

 

[moviefreak]

In draft Superman Weeklies by Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster, there is strip with Jor-El mentioning building a ship to got to Earth:

Source:
http://archive.org/stream/DraftSupermanWeeklies/Superman#page/n8/mode/1up

 

[Misha]

Yeah that sounds about right. I hope it's made explicit in the film. But why then have his scout ship nowhere near where he landed, and for him to find when he's 'of age'. There's alot of things that could go wrong before then, esp. if Kal landed in like North Korea or something. I mean it's the right way to go in a version where Jor-El is consciously sending Kal to Earth and aware of how powerful he will be. He basically comes up with Kals whole future to be Earth's savior.

There was a great post on here by someone who said that it seems Jor-Els intentions don't seem too noble. That his love for his son, outweighs any consequence to everyone on Earth. It's an interesting way to go. Kind've puts his mortality and ethics into question and this is what Clark will struggle with when he learns about this, because he's grown up there his whole life and knows the people of Earth and how back-setting it could be to out himself as a god amongst them.

Well, it was a last minute plan. Things were bound to go wrong at some point, and others were up in the air. Another space ship could have intercepted Kal's trajectory. He could have died by a gama-ray out there in space. He could have grown up in a military base and never heard of Krypton and much less his father's wishes. It was a gamble all around.

But staying was certain death.

I can't blame Jor-El for choosing the one planet that would give his son some shade of normalcy -aliens who look just like him, instead of a planet full of giant insects- and a chance to pretty much achieve immortality by just standing under the sun. Everything else, including said aliens, was just of no importance to the survival of his son.

 

[elgaz]

There was a great post on here by someone who said that it seems Jor-Els intentions don't seem too noble. That his love for his son, outweighs any consequence to everyone on Earth. It's an interesting way to go. Kind've puts his mortality and ethics into question and this is what Clark will struggle with when he learns about this, because he's grown up there his whole life and knows the people of Earth and how back-setting it could be to out himself as a god amongst them.

That's something I'd really like to see portrayed on the film. We seem to have this resistance to anything less than Jor-El being a noble, almost perfect figure - but why not? He's a father, first and foremost. Perhaps he is worried Earth will eventually go down the same route as Krypton without a guiding light like Kal-El keeping them on the straight and narrow.

I like the idea of the 2 fathers in MOS - Jor-El and Jonathan - being imperfect because of their love for their son.

Jor-El wants him to be a wonder, an inspiration, almost a God to Earthlings.
Jonathan is the opposite, and wants him to hide his powers and stay well under the radar.

Ultimately, Kal-El has to choose his own path and does so by combining the best traits of both things - a seemingly normal Clark Kent guise, and a god-like Superman guise.

 

[Smallville13]

Yeah, you should probably read some Post-Crisis origin stories. In Byrne's MOS, not only does Jor-El tell Lara he's send Kal to Earth, but he says that he'll be landing in Kansas, and shows her a picture of the place.

She reacts negatively, of course.

But they didn't know he'd be a god possessing superhuman strength right?

 

[Smallville13]

Well, it was a last minute plan. Things were bound to go wrong at soem point, and others were up in the air. Another space ship could have intercepted Kal's trajectory. He could have died by a gama-ray out there in space. He could have grown up in a military base and never heard of Krypton and much less his father's wishes. It was a gamble all around.

But staying was certain death.

I can't blame Jor-El for choosing the one planet that would give his son some shade of normalcy -aliens who look just like him, instead of a planet full of giant insects- and a chance to pretty much achieve immortality by just standing under the sun. Everything else, including said aliens, was just of no importance to the survival of his son.

Yeah definitely. It just seems given that Jor-El is a scientist he would be protective of life at it's natural state and not tampering with it and playing god. That it would be his nature to be a scientist and observer above all else. But I guess the love of his son was enough to violate these values.

 

[king666]

Seriously Jor-El just imposing a god on Earth is really kind of messed up, even if it's to save his sons life. It's completely disregarding of our natural progression and achievements. Look at Millar's Red Son for the reasons where it can all go wrong.

That should be Luthor's speech t: