All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 8

[Kal-El.9859]

I'm sorry Rockstar, but you're full of crap. You keep referencing Nolan's dislike over the DCU and Snyder's focused goal to stay far away from Marvel Studios' approach but neither Nolan and Snyder have any say in whether or not a JL/WF/Trinity film will be made. They're not on the board, thus they possess no authority.

Unless you provide ground-breaking evidence that Nolan is secretly the CEO at WB, your statements are basically rubbish... propaganda.

At the end of the day, WB has all the power in the world to green-light an ensemble film. However, executives aren't willing to risk another 200 million and/or put any real effort into hiring the proper director and writer for their DC properties.

They struck oil with Nolan. Other than that, WB executives haven't tried to pick up Jones, Bird, Blomkamp, Cuaron, Aronofsky, Refn, etc for The Flash, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and The Justice League. They at least hired Snyder for MoS and Trank for another obscure DC title, but WB keeps hiring second-rate writers and unfitted directors for the projects (Singer being the exception).

WB can't progress in the Superhero genre with that mentality... but I don't think they care. They've got plenty of other projects to worry about than just CBMs.

pretty much yeah...

 

[SpitCurl]

I really think there's a (relatively) easy way to get a JLA film up and running that would be both ground-breaking and yet visualy striking and distinctive enough that it would clearly exist in its own universe so as not to confuse the GA or go against Nolan's wishes (as much as WB might care).

I've had this image in my head for a while, a bit tricky to explain properly, of something akin to an Alex-Ross painting come to life (I say "akin" to because, while I appreciate the guys art his use of costumes and body-types evokes an odd cosplay vibe that wouldn't work here). I look at what Weta did with Tin Tin and what ILM (along with Weta, I believe) is doing with Hulk and I think you can get away with truly humanoid characters now, especially if A) all the characters and the world they inhabit are CG, and B) your character designs are just exaggerated enough as not to fall into Uncanny Valley territory.

The whole "dead-eye" thing doesn't seem to be as much of a problem, and mo-cap would be perfect, since just like with animation you can cast for the best peformance, not the physical resemblance and still get the realism of movement and facial expression. Also, nothing in an all CG world will stand out as "too unbelievable". You've already distanced this world away from ours enough that Batman and SUperman can exist together, no problem.

You can get away with costumes that are as faithful to the comic as you like because neither fabric nor phyique is a problem, the display of powers will be seamless because everything's already a special-effect, and you can trully go BIG in scale and scope. Bring on Darkseid.

Yet on the flip-side, you've created a photo-real world that's familiar enough to the human eye that you aren't simply watching some direct-to-DVD DC film. You can actually feel this world exists. Now I doubt DC would ever take a gamble like that, but to me it's their best shot at getting a team-up film off the ground without seeming like a cynical cash-grab if Avenger's succeeds wildly, and it also won't step on any live-action toes.

 

[Rockstar]

I'm sorry Rockstar, but you're full of crap. You keep referencing Nolan's dislike over the DCU and Snyder's focused goal to stay far away from Marvel Studios' approach but neither Nolan and Snyder have any say in whether or not a JL/WF/Trinity film will be made. They're not on the board, thus they possess no authority.

Unless you provide ground-breaking evidence that Nolan is secretly the CEO at WB, your statements are basically rubbish... propaganda.

At the end of the day, WB has all the power in the world to green-light an ensemble film. However, executives aren't willing to risk another 200 million and/or put any real effort into hiring the proper director and writer for their DC properties.

They struck oil with Nolan. Other than that, WB executives haven't tried to pick up Jones, Bird, Blomkamp, Cuaron, Aronofsky, Refn, etc for The Flash, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and The Justice League. They at least hired Snyder for MoS and Trank for another obscure DC title, but WB keeps hiring second-rate writers and unfitted directors for the projects (Singer being the exception).

WB can't progress in the Superhero genre with that mentality... but I don't think they care. They've got plenty of other projects to worry about than just CBMs.

WB and DCE aren't in a position to do anything that goes against what Nolan wants. He's the only one over there who knows what he's doing and the studio knows this. Hence why CN is overseeing the next Batman.


Just like Snyder said, if there is a Justice League... it won't involve his Superman (Cavill), it will be a completely seperate thing. You have it straight form the director's mouth there. He knows what he's talking about. Same with Nolan when he said how his Batman and Superman works won't ever cross over.


Everything else on your part is guessing and speculation, but let's look at some facts. We have:

- A failed 400 Million dollar investment on Green Lantern. The film that was supposed to copy Marvel's Shared Universe strategy and set the whole thing up. It was supposed to be DC's "Iron Man."

- A Flash film that was supposed to be directed by the producer of the failed Green Lantern film.

- Snyder saying his Superman will be self-contained in it's own world. Nolan, as producer, backing that up.

- Nolan saying Batman must be self-contained in his own world, unlike the Marvel characters. Robinov appointing Nolan to produce the Batman reboot.


All of those things aren't very optimistic signs when it comes to hoping for a JL film.

 

[Adenjo]

Personally I think a JL film with any other actor playing Superman is a dumb idea.
A JL without Superman? A dumb but maybe not so dumb idea.

We haven't seen MOS yet, we've heard a few bits and pieces about it and seen one or two set pics but we have no idea what the tone of this movie is or what type of universe it's set in.. So perhaps a Cavill lead JL isn't such a distant dream afterall, unlike a Bale/Routh Batman/Superman team up which i'm pretty sure Nolan poured water on when asked about it.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

WB and DCE aren't in a position to do anything that goes against what Nolan wants. He's the only one over there who knows what he's doing and the studio knows this. Hence why CN is overseeing the next Batman.

Nolan will be overlooking future Batman projects so they don't venture into Schumacher territory again (although, to be fair, WB is to be held completely responsible for campy Batman).

Like I've stated previous times to you before (over and over again) in the DC boards, Nolan's anger wasn't over JL: Mortal and expanding the DCU. It was over the script that referenced Nolan's universe on film. Nolan wanted no part of it, and I completely understand why he got vexed.

Just like Snyder said, if there is a Justice League... it won't involve his Superman (Cavill), it will be a completely seperate thing. You have it straight form the director's mouth there. He knows what he's talking about. Same with Nolan when he said how his Batman and Superman works won't ever cross over.

So? A standalone JL movie is still an option. Snyder simply wants no part of letting WB hijack his universe (like Marvel Studios did with Iron Man 2 and Thor). Zack is solely focused on making his Superman films, not stepping stones (ex. Captain America).

Everything else on your part is guessing and speculation, but let's look at some facts. We have:

Oh, thee irony.

- A failed 400 Million dollar investment on Green Lantern. The film that was supposed to copy Marvel's Shared Universe strategy and set the whole thing up. It was supposed to be DC's "Iron Man."

There's no evidence of Green Lantern being the film that started the expansion of the DCU. If anything, it was leading up to the epic Sinestro Corps War, not a JL film.

- A Flash film that was supposed to be directed by the producer of the failed Green Lantern film.

After a terribly received film, anyone associated with Green Lantern (management-wise) got the axe. That means future projects by got placed on hold by WB, and with good reason.

A Green Lantern sequel is still possible with budget cuts and a Flash adaptation is likely within the next couple years regardless.

- Nolan saying Batman must be self-contained in his own world, unlike the Marvel characters. Robinov appointing Nolan to produce the Batman reboot.

Yes, his Batman.

NOT WB's standalone Batman.

Do you understand now?

All of those things aren't very optimistic signs when it comes to hoping for a JL film.

That's up to WB. The fact that they've done a mediocre job at handling the DCU is what should make you cynical of a JL/WF/Trinity film.

Blaming Nolan and Snyder is asinine.

 

[Micromind]

- A failed 400 Million dollar investment on Green Lantern. The film that was supposed to copy Marvel's Shared Universe strategy and set the whole thing up. It was supposed to be DC's "Iron Man."

I know it is quite a cool thing to bash Green Lantern movie on these forums, but where are you basing this figure.

400 million for GL movie ?

GL's production cost WB 200 million and it's marketing another 100 mil. so that added becomes 300 mil (I am not including the Tax breaks they got for filming the movie at New Orleans which would make the production costs even less than 200 mil.)

 

[elgaz]

How was it setting up a shared universe too? I didn't see any cameos from other DC heroes (a la Nick Fury), or any references to setting up a team. It was a 100% Green Lantern film.

 

[Adenjo]

Wasn't there talk of a possible CK cameo that never actually happened?

Anyway, cameo or no cameo.. Multi hero launchpad or no multi hero launchpad.. Green Lantern was not a very good film.
Pretty awful if truth be told.
It had such great potential too.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

How was it setting up a shared universe too? I didn't see any cameos from other DC heroes (a la Nick Fury), or any references to setting up a team. It was a 100% Green Lantern film.

Would Amanda Waller count?

 

[Rust]

NEEEEWS!!!


dammit....*

 

[hopefuldreamer]

You made me think there was news...

 

[Prime]

NEEEEWS!!!

You trying to give me a heart attack?!

 

[Rodrigo90]

There won't be any news for quite awhile yet.

In the meantime...

Hi, my username is Rodrigo90, and I am an alcoholic.

 

[Prime]

Hi, my username is Rodrigo90, and I am an alcoholic.

Hi, Rodrigo90!

 

[Rodrigo90]

 

[elgaz]

Would Amanda Waller count?

Possibly, though would I be wrong in saying there was no reference to suicide squad or checkmate? I'd have thought if there were setting up a shared universe there would be more nods to it in the script.

 

[Rust]

You trying to give me a heart attack?!

Hehe, that was NOT the plan, my man. It was merely a quick burst of frustration is all. The lack of anything official (the FB-banner aside) is just horrible. I dont even want pictures. Just some tidbits on the status. Dammit Snyder, where's your production video-blogs?

 

[Micromind]

Amanda Waller was supposed to be a nod to a larger DC Universe. I see that there are not many GL fans on SHH boards.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Possibly, though would I be wrong in saying there was no reference to suicide squad or checkmate? I'd have thought if there were setting up a shared universe there would be more nods to it in the script.

Yeah, I don't see how a cameo regarding the founder of The Suicide Squad/Checkmate is considered as a nod to expanding the DCU.

Surprisingly, among non-comic fans, Green Lantern is considered a good movie. I disagree (it wasn't Batman & Robin or TDK) but I can see why people out there have that opinion. There are numerous scenes in the film that were exhilarating. The premise is also a unique one for the fantastical elements of CBMs.

I really do hope WB makes a sequel, Mark Strong as Sinestro has too much potential to simply discard. He was easily the best part of the first film.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Amanda Waller was supposed to be a nod to a larger DC Universe. I see that there are not many GL fans on SHH boards.

On what account? How do we know that Amanda's cameo was meant to be one of the DCU expansion?

The after-credits scene to the film was Sinestro placing on the Yellow Ring of Fear.

 

[Micromind]

On what account? How do we know that Amanda's cameo was meant to be one of the DCU expansion?

Dr. Amanda Waller is head of the fictional government agency called as Department of Extranormal Operations (DEO), whose activities include keeping a watch over super powered heroes and villains, aliens etc. That was indeed a hint to tying up various superheroes and super villains in the larger DCU.

 

[Micromind]

It would be a good idea for DC to make her (Amanda Waller) appear in MOS, that way they can leave the door open for Superman to be a part of the larger DC universe, if they plan to do so in the future.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Yeah, I don't see how a cameo regarding the founder of The Suicide Squad/Checkmate is considered as a nod to expanding the DCU.

Surprisingly, among non-comic fans, Green Lantern is considered a good movie. I disagree (it wasn't Batman & Robin or TDK) but I can see why people out there have that opinion. There are numerous scenes in the film that were exhilarating. The premise is also a unique one for the fantastical elements of CBMs.

I really do hope WB makes a sequel, Mark Strong as Sinestro has too much potential to simply discard. He was easily the best part of the first film.

If GL was considered a good movie by the non comic book fans it wouldn't have tanked after opening with 53mil.

 

[Micromind]

GL's script was a mess, it needed rewrites and the CGI effects budget increased the production costs, as the effects were not ready on time and WB had to pour more money to get those CGI effects complete on time.

GL's extended cut is better than its Theatrical cut, it is at par with Fantastic Four 1, 2 and Spider-Man 3, X-men 3. (IMO.)

Remember that there was a talk about a CGI suit for Superman, but GL's ever increasing CGI budget made WB give up on that idea, or that is what I think happened.

 

[Rust]

I think Whedon might blow a head gasket soon -

http://www.darkhorizons.com/feature...ers?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter