All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - Part 85

[Marvin]

Thought it was pretty sad that superman sacrificed himself to zod and co.
Pretty big deal imo.

 

[souperman]

Some of the most anti war people I know are people who have gone to war.

I think you will see in the future a Superman that will do everything in his power not to be put in that position again.

Yes. Now they can have some real soul searching and cause Superman to outsmart as much as out punch the villan. Superman (the writers) needs to be very clever to figure ways to win and not kill next time!

 

[souperman]

Eugh... stop, now I'm thinking about all these kinds of mistakes in the movie.

I really hope it holds up well with a second viewing.

shouldn't your avi say- Phlawless...t:

 

[cryptic name]

I have a thought on the film, I'm not sure it is a problem, just a thought (so calm down fanboys, its not really a criticism, just me thinking aloud). I feel like Snyder did this with the film:



In other words, how do you escalate? The reason that the Transformers movies got progressively worse is because Bay showed everything that there is to show in the first movie. There was no way to escalate and a sequel must escalate to feel fresh and exciting and to make the audience feel like it was worth coming back to. I'm not sure how MOS2 can escalate. Metropolis was more or less destroyed. The action and carnage was way over the top. Snyder held nothing back. That could be problematic. However, a smaller story (like Metallo and Luthor) would feel thoroughly underwhelming after Zod. I almost feel like Snyder made a huge mistake in using Zod as the origin villain, who basically ravaged the world, because there is no way to really up the ante at this point.

Up the ante with character drama, make the threat more personal. Batman Begins had more city-wide destruction than the Dark Knight, but Dark Knight deepened the characters, made the threat more personal and the devestation hit harder. You could do the same thing with Luthor, or a character like Brainiac, Metallo, even say Parasite.

 

[Nicko-Ray]

I'm thinking that scene was a few months or a year or two later...enough time for Clark to get a degree in journalism. The one guy was trying to get Lois to go to a sports game I don't think it would be business as usual the next day especially with sports playing.

Mm. I was gonna say less than a year. But you're right about the degree thing. Eh who knows. Definitely some time for repair on the city. Everything's back to normal.

 

[redhawk23]

I'm thinking that scene was a few months or a year or two later...enough time for Clark to get a degree in journalism. The one guy was trying to get Lois to go to a sports game I don't think it would be business as usual the next day especially with sports playing.

I don't know if was specifically in journalism or whatever, but I'm pretty sure Clark had already been to college. At the very least he's wearing a Kansas University shirt during the tornado scene.

 

[Liam_H]

This type of city wide destruction felt like something that would be cause by Doomsday if they ever decide to use him. However, the could up that by having it go global. Landmarks from all over the world gets destroyed as they are pummeling each other.

 

[SpideyVille]

I'm thinking that scene was a few months or a year or two later...enough time for Clark to get a degree in journalism. The one guy was trying to get Lois to go to a sports game I don't think it would be business as usual the next day especially with sports playing.

Was Clark there to be a reporter? I thought he was there more as an intern or temp or something.

But I agree, there had to have been some amount of time pass because everything looked like it was back to normal despite having the area right next to the DP get demolished.

 

[Mean Mr Mustard]

I have a thought on the film, I'm not sure it is a problem, just a thought (so calm down fanboys, its not really a criticism, just me thinking aloud). I feel like Snyder did this with the film:



In other words, how do you escalate? The reason that the Transformers movies got progressively worse is because Bay showed everything that there is to show in the first movie. There was no way to escalate and a sequel must escalate to feel fresh and exciting and to make the audience feel like it was worth coming back to. I'm not sure how MOS2 can escalate. Metropolis was more or less destroyed. The action and carnage was way over the top. Snyder held nothing back. That could be problematic. However, a smaller story (like Metallo and Luthor) would feel thoroughly underwhelming after Zod. I almost feel like Snyder made a huge mistake in using Zod as the origin villain, who basically ravaged the world, because there is no way to really up the ante at this point.

I agree, although (and maybe this doesn't apply exactly to superman, I could be wrong) in the original Star Wars... you had the death star wich could destroy an entire planet...the stakes were very high...you have a space battle and all....and then...The Empire Strikes Back comes along...and it's even better than the previous movie and it's way more personal and less "epic"...everything revolves around the characters, not a big battle with lots of lives depending on the outcome...

 

[Lencho01]

Some of the most anti war people I know are people who have gone to war.

I think you will see in the future a Superman that will do everything in his power not to be put in that position again.

Pretty sure he wasn't a killer before the fact. And yes, take a life and it changes you, this is well documented(in cinema)

doesn't have to, but it is impactful.

according to TOT, God destroyed the world by flood and then made a covenant not to do "that" again...

But, this is Superman we're talking about though. There's no real need to explain why he doesn't like killing. But, I guess since Nolan's involved there would be a need, which was surprisingly missing.

And for how much they used Birthright (where it was shown how he actually views life) and All-Star (where we had the awesome scene when Lex finally understood Superman's point of view) in this film, I'm surprised they didn't use their explanations or some version of it. But, then maybe Goyer didn't understand those comics or didn't want to use their ideas outside of a superficial level.

It's only at the last moment that we learn killing or even the death of anyone is really an issue for this Superman when that could've been explained during the childhood scenes.

Since war was brought up, I loved how in DC: New Frontier, Hal never wanted to kill anyone until he finally realized what would get him to do it and was shocked that he was chosen to be a GL whenever everyone else thought he was coward, but Abin Sur tells him that it's good that all life is precious to him.

 

[Deserana]

Does anyone know if Goyer planned a story if this story was to ever expand from MoS? Or if he only done the story for MoS and never planned to take it further.

 

[roach]

I guess I'll have to watch it again to hear what Perry calls him

 

[souperman]

I don't know if was specifically in journalism or whatever, but I'm pretty sure Clark had already been to college. At the very least he's wearing a Kansas University shirt during the tornado scene.

Do Journalists get degrees? The ones I read and watch don't seem to...I just thought they were celebrity commentators. t:

 

[Liam_H]

Does anyone know if Goyer planned a story if this story was to ever expand from MoS? Or if he only done the story for MoS and never planned to take it further.

It would be surprising if he didn't have some idea where to take the story. I mean WB certainly don't want just one movie.

 

[cryptic name]

He's probably got some rough ideas.

 

[SpideyVille]

Does anyone know if Goyer planned a story if this story was to ever expand from MoS? Or if he only done the story for MoS and never planned to take it further.

I would imagine that in this day and age, writers try to keep things open to expand for possible sequels. Hence why we never saw Lex in this, but his presence was still acknowledged. Same thing with Amazing Spider-Man and Norman Osborn. Superhero movies, especially those belonging to the top names, are kept open so that there's a base to build on. It may not all be mapped out on day 1, but they usually don't show all their cards right away.

 

[souperman]

But, this is Superman we're talking about though. There's no real need to explain why he doesn't like killing. But, I guess since Nolan's involved there would be a need, which was surprisingly missing.

And for how much they used Birthright (where it was shown how he actually views life) and All-Star (where we had the awesome scene when Lex finally understood Superman's point of view) in this film, I'm surprised they didn't use their explanations or some version of it. But, then maybe Goyer didn't understand those comics or didn't want to use their ideas outside of a superficial level.

It's only at the last moment that we learn killing or even the death of anyone is really an issue for this Superman when that could've been explained during the childhood scenes.

Since war was brought up, I loved how in DC: New Frontier, Hal never wanted to kill anyone until he finally realized what would get him to do it and was shocked that he was chosen to be a GL whenever everyone else thought he was coward, but Abin Sur tells him that it's good that all life is precious to him.

Yep.

They made it a point to say that they were going forward "as if no other Superman materiel was out there" Maybe they took that idea too far for some.

Is it any better if you don't take Superman lore into account?

Maybe a Kiss from Superman would help forget!

And by the way, God only promised not to flood the Earth again... didn't say anything about the delete button.

 

[Lencho01]

Yep.

They made it a point to say that they were going forward "as if no other Superman materiel was out there" Maybe they took that idea too far for some.

Is it any better if you don't take Superman lore into account?

Maybe a Kiss from Superman would help forget!

Well, I think they failed because I felt some of the film counted on the fact that the audience had some idea of who Superman is.

 

[TheBourneSuper]

I saw this movie for the 2nd time last night, both have been IMAX 3D.

I still believe this film is awesome, a truly great entertaining flick. Nothing I can say here that hasn't already been mentioned. I see the flaws but none of them have made me think this movie isn't great. I think a few posters on here are being slightly pedantic and overly critical. I get that because before this movie came out, we all wanted it to be perfect. One of the posters here said it's making them disappointed that people are complaining that because Superman kills in this movie and that he doesn't save enough people etc and I'm the same. But then it hit me that everyone here has their own idea of Superman and why they love him. In the end, the movie won't be able to please everyone.


I echo another poster's comments on here about where they will go for the sequel and his concerns. I wish the finale of this movie was the Smallville fight because that was so epic (Faora kicked Superman's arse!! lol and I loved it!). See if Superman fights Doomsday (which I think is going to be number 3 resulting in his death/coma) we are just going to see the same thing with the city being smashed. I wish they saved the smashed city elements for the sequels. But I trust greater minds than mine.

My fave scene? SPOILER.

Where Superman grabs Zod and continuously punches him and says "You think you can threaten my Mother?!!?".......I know that scene seems so simple but it has so many elements to it. I'm pretty sure everyone has been involved in some sort of fist fight once in their lives and I want you to remember the rage you felt if someone swore at your mum or insulted her. Now imagine that and someone physically harming her. You would want to rip their head off. I think we truly saw Superman's human side or protective side in that scene, he was so pissed off, it was amazing. And when he is saying 'you think you can threaten my mother', it comes across almost like HOW DARE YOU??? I'M SUPERMAN, YOU KNOW WHAT I CAN DO BUDDY???....which is beautiful. So many times in the movie I wanted him to act against a normal human being (the trucker, the kids), but he doesn't and it just goes to show how tormented he must of been because even if he couldn't feel any pain, he feels the dent in his pride. Trust me, as a male, and I am sure all the males here agree, we are to proud for our own good and not being able to retaliate to some punk, I know for sure would eat me inside.

Anyways I have typed a lot and I cannot wait now for this movie to come out in Blu Ray 3D. I wish their was a way I could personally thank Cavill and the cast and say thank you for this representation because you made me feel like a little kid again at the cinema.

 

[SpideyVille]

Well, I think they failed because I felt some of the film counted on the fact that the audience had some idea of who Superman is.

That's how I felt to. Like some stuff was just rushed because if you knew who Superman was, you would get it.

 

[roach]

Does anyone know if Goyer planned a story if this story was to ever expand from MoS? Or if he only done the story for MoS and never planned to take it further.

i think they said they were talking about where to take the story and WB like it so much and fast tracked the sequel.

 

[Marvin]

Well, I think they failed because I felt some of the film counted on the fact that the audience had some idea of who Superman is.

At the same time it takes some pretty big liberties suggesting they were gunning for a new fresh audience.

 

[roach]

But, this is Superman we're talking about though. There's no real need to explain why he doesn't like killing. But, I guess since Nolan's involved there would be a need, which was surprisingly missing.

And for how much they used Birthright (where it was shown how he actually views life) and All-Star (where we had the awesome scene when Lex finally understood Superman's point of view) in this film, I'm surprised they didn't use their explanations or some version of it. But, then maybe Goyer didn't understand those comics or didn't want to use their ideas outside of a superficial level.

It's only at the last moment that we learn killing or even the death of anyone is really an issue for this Superman when that could've been explained during the childhood scenes.

Since war was brought up, I loved how in DC: New Frontier, Hal never wanted to kill anyone until he finally realized what would get him to do it and was shocked that he was chosen to be a GL whenever everyone else thought he was coward, but Abin Sur tells him that it's good that all life is precious to him.

but they need to explain it to people who dont read the comics. The GA probably doesnt have an idea that Superman doesnt kill...just like they didnt know about Batman's aversion to guns and killing prior to TDK Trilogy

 

[BatLobster]

Your feelings are sort of similar to mine. Some emotional moments didn't hit (namely Pa Kent's death and Kal's anguish after Zod's death) however the flashback with the red cape did.

I did however think that it was a great cinematic experience with enough awesome to be quite high on my CBM list. By far better than IM3 IMO though.

I think my experience was partly ruined because during the flashback at the end there were a few idiots in the theater laughing really loudly and I probably missed a few lines. I could tell that it was a nice moment though, so that's one reason I definitely need to see it again. The whole ending kind of got botched for me because of that.

My whole thing is, usually if a movie has a mixed reaction and I really love it, I will passionately defend it. With MoS I walked into it expecting to walk out calling the critics crazy, but as of now I just don't feel that way. I respect the opinion of anyone who loves the film, but when one of my friends told me he didn't like it at all, I told him he'd get no argument from me. That's pretty much where I stand with the movie right now.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

But, this is Superman we're talking about though. There's no real need to explain why he doesn't like killing. But, I guess since Nolan's involved there would be a need, which was surprisingly missing.

And for how much they used Birthright (where it was shown how he actually views life) and All-Star (where we had the awesome scene when Lex finally understood Superman's point of view) in this film, I'm surprised they didn't use their explanations or some version of it. But, then maybe Goyer didn't understand those comics or didn't want to use their ideas outside of a superficial level.

It's only at the last moment that we learn killing or even the death of anyone is really an issue for this Superman when that could've been explained during the childhood scenes.

That's what amazed me. Sure, Superman fans are aware, but for all the explanations thrown there, not to emphasize the one element that was central to the very climax of the movie was odd. I mean, in that case, why explaining Batman's non killing rule in Nolan's movies? Because it was going to have a central role in them.