All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 92

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Possibly. But there was an entire action scene cut, so I think a part of that is Goyer writing an action scene every moment he could, and Zack filming a bulk of it (as well as quiter moments) and leaving it in the hands of an overzealous editor.

I do think Zack should have the blame for not demanding more from Goyer, and for the shakeycam and odd sequencing of events. But I also think that he would probably go at MOS2 differently in response to the criticisms of MOS.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

^ Possibly. But there was an entire action scene cut, so I think a part of that is Goyer writing an action scene every moment he could, and Zack filming a bulk of it (as well as quiter moments) and leaving it in the hands of an overzealous editor.

I do think Zack should have the blame for not demanding more from Goyer, and for the shakeycam and odd sequencing of events. But I also think that he would probably go at MOS2 differently in response to the criticisms of MOS.

And what scene would that be?

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

By "cut" I mean, not filmed. 'The second deleted scene, which was never shot, featured a display of power from General Zod and his crew. "Believe it or not there was another action scene," Goyer continued. "After Zod first announces himself [the Krpytonians] provide a demonstration of their might. They drop Faora into Shanghai and Namek, who is the big eight foot tall guy who doesn't speak, they drop him another foreign city."

 

[The Sage]

You can have Lex and his machinations. Then of course the various incidents, crimes and disasters that Superman has to prevent.

And if Metallo is used, you can still have a fight, but in a different way.

 

[Vaibow]

By "cut" I mean, not filmed. 'The second deleted scene, which was never shot, featured a display of power from General Zod and his crew. "Believe it or not there was another action scene," Goyer continued. "After Zod first announces himself [the Krpytonians] provide a demonstration of their might. They drop Faora into Shanghai and Namek, who is the big eight foot tall guy who doesn't speak, they drop him another foreign city."

That should have stayed in, could have been 3 minutes, with news footage and how the public, governments react - show what a danger Zod could be, rather than just a face!

Would have shortened the krypton sequence big time, the bit just before Jor El was stabbed seemed a bit too 'slow' as if the actors knew what was coming - although to be fair i didn't expect Zod to stab him - guess it was too set up, in my opinion. As a superman fan, i wanted more story, but, the visuals i got made me happy, so i forgave snyder/goyer - the sequel needs to redeem itself though. It's not that i didn't enjoy the film, i loved it, but it just felt like a gigantic trailer to a film in goyers/snyders/nolans mind

 

[John-An]

I don't think people necessarily expect Superman to be filled with quite so much action -- in fact, the action is one of the biggest complaints. I love action, and even I felt it was a little too fast, a little too much.

The film would be fine with two small fights/action sequences, and one big battle scene. The rest of the film could be developed around the investigative journalism of Clark and Lois. I'd prefer it if they were more of a team, instead of being competitive. If the writers manage to take out some of the dry humor, and add some really light moments, the film will be fine -- and possibly even a bigger success than MOS.

We'll have to see. Second films sometimes turn out to be the ugliest, so....



I think the biggest problem with MOS, other than the almost-too-much-action, was the Codex. They spent a lot of time on it, and it was confusing. It's great for comic book fans, but for others, it was hard to keep that aspect of the story straight.

That said, I do think that this Superman has been well-received by people who saw it. I work in retail, and in an office setting, and I use movies and such for small talk. The people who have seen the film really seemed to have enjoyed it.

sequels? what about the dark knight?

 

[Drewbee87]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cGDP5LSbox8

 

[John-An]

I think I've landed on what disappoints me most with the movie.

The first half really sets the film up to be an existentialist character drama, and look into Superman on Earth, and what that would be like.

There's some excellent character moments between Jor-El and Lara, young Clark and his folks, Clark and Lois at the cemetery, and Clark and Martha, and even the priest. Come the Smallville fight though this is completely abandoned save for one small scene where he checks back with Martha in his suit. The next character moment really isn't until he is forced to kill Zod.

The entire film just becomes plot and faux sci-fi driven or derailed. Add to that it's just full-Snyder CGI destruction and fighting (not to mention alot of death). We're given another final character moment between Clark and his mother and the flashback. But by that point the film is just too far removed from what it set out to do, and alienated everyone expecting something more than just your typical Summer blockbuster. Superman doesn't represent hope to everyone on Earth in the film, all they've seen of him has been surrounded by death and destruction.

I respect your point of view but I don't agree.. The film is realisitc.. what if these kryptonians collide? lot of destruction of course... not only Cars and stuff there are casualties.... like if they were in real life that's what snyder tries to make us understand not only the perfect world that the hero always win and never lose anything.. even in a war there are casualties... we're not in the 70's anymore.... =) we have superman the movie and the avengers to think in that way

 

[John-An]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the lack of human emotion in Man of Steel. I thought there were numerous touching moments, from the very beginning to the very end. If you didnt notice them or didnt think they showed enough emotion, well, thats your view of things.



The action could have been spread out more proportionately, yes. The smallville fight, in an ideal world, would have happened about 15 minutes earlier in the film, leaving a 20 minute break before there is the World Engine attack, instead of the 5 minute break between Smallville and the World Engine.

But surely you werent expecting it to be a quiet character drama from start to finish? In my opinion the genre of this film is sci-fi, action, drama, in that order. The change in tone from drama to action may have been abrupt, but I was expecting it. I guess others werent.

No matter how ill-timed or extensive the action scenes were I enjoyed them immensely. I guess it comes down to whether or not your a fan of Zack Snyder or if you hate him. I thought Sucker Punch was a decent movie, so I guess thats why I loved the action in Man of Steel and the film overall, because Im a fan of his style.

the drama and the characters were well developed.. if you want more drama see superman returns (see what people think about it)

 

[John-An]

Well all of that could have been done by not having Zod.

Zod felt like he was there for this video game generation, so they could see Superman fight, thus making Superman 'cool' again.

videogame?... man I think you're overreacting.... Zod was portrayed not like just a villain... but also like a military mind that krypton is his priority no matter the cost (mastered by shannon) and also giving the physical threat to supes...

 

[John-An]

Nope. They wanted a total, clean break from all previous Superman films, which is why they went this direction. Change the costume, tweak the story, and update Superman's character so that people can relate more with him. That was the purpose of this film, and they succeeded in that respect.

I think part of why this film had some issues at the box office is because of the Superman-stigma. For every person on this forum who thinks the Donner films were the most brilliant thing ever, there are probably 1000 GA members who thought it was stupid. So many people I talked to who didn't see Superman told me "Well, it's Superman. It's kind of cheesy, isn't it?"

A lot of people don't even know that Superman lost the meggings and red underpants.

totally agree with you man... do we want a superman returns the movie again? no... this change was great giving superman the kryptonian origin and zod was perfect to give superman a choice (krypton or Earth?) also the physical challenges were great... not too much but just have the perfect scenes to make you feel that the movie is fluent (not perfect) but I guess they can't never get all the people what they want

 

[Tempest]

Y'know I can see this being the truth.

All of the action scenes in the film were no doubt completely Snyder's work. Even that one storyboard artist interviewed (last week?) who worked for Zack said there was parts he would have done different.

I'm sure it's just a bracketed time frame for the action parts that were left by Goyer in the script for Snyder to just go wild, and I'm sure he even extended that bracket too considering the Zod fight/killing wasn't in the original screenplay. I can see Snyder definitely opting to go for punching scenes over Superman taking the time to save people too.

Well, I think Snyder probably didn't think he'd have to spell out to people that Clark would save people. He clearly showed care and concern about people throughout the film. It was only when things went so out of control that we see him focused completely on the fight, instead of saving people (and with good reason).

Don't forget, we saw him save the soldier. Clark took the time to ask if he was all right, and then he was taken by surprise by one of the Kryptonians. Clark needs to save people, but he also had an obligation to keep himself alive, since he was the only one capable of fighting Zod.

With my fourth viewing of the film, I really got the chance to appreciate the fight scenes. I'm not sure that they're too long, but they are immensely intense, and I think if the pull back just a tiny bit on that, people won't feel like the wind got knocked out of them (on the other hand, the fight scenes did leave you breathless, as if you were witnessing a true fight).

On a side note, did my eyes deceive me, or did some LexCorp trucks get blown up in Metroplis? I thought for sure that one appeared to be carrying a chemical of some sort that ignigted and blew up a parking garage.

 

[Mysteryman]

Your eyes did not deceive you.

 

[InJustice]

And what scene would that be?

I think he might be referring to this

The second deleted scene, which was never shot, featured a display of power from General Zod and his crew. "Believe it or not there was another action scene," Goyer continued. "After Zod first announces himself [the Krpytonians] provide a demonstration of their might. They drop Faora into Shanghai and Namek, who is the big eight foot tall guy who doesn't speak, they drop him another foreign city."

"It was another five pages of crazy Kryptonian destruction. We didn't need it. We knew that, my God, there's already a lot of action."

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/david-goyer-on-man-of-steels-deleted-scenes

 

[Tempest]

Your eyes did not deceive you.

Awesome! I thought I saw it the first time, but then I didn't pay attention the other times, and then noticed it again tonight.

Because I'm a sad, sad person, I'll probably end up seeing it again tomorrow. I finally convinced my friend to go see it.

Every time I go see it, my love for Kevin Costner grows. I loved that stupid Robin Hood movie he was in.

TL;DR -- I had a teacher who had a giant man crush on Kevin Costner, so I got to see ALL his films that were available up to the year 1996 (since that was when I was in school). He's a very good actor, but some of his movies are really, really, really, really long. Just sayin'. I did a lot of doodling in notebooks during movie time.

Also, this is probably the prettiest cast for a Superman movie.

 

[ConnorKon-El]

I just bought the Man of Steel art book and I love it so much. This film produced some great conceptual art. I'm still in love with the way Krypton was handled, from a visual standpoint.

 

[John-An]

I just bought the Man of Steel art book and I love it so much. This film produced some great conceptual art. I'm still in love with the way Krypton was handled, from a visual standpoint.

I bought it too.. I think the same as you

 

[rayc1971]

I think this movie was well received and deserves a sequel but looks like wb is going back to there money maker batman too soon in 2015!

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I think this movie was well received and deserves a sequel but looks like wb is going back to there money maker batman too soon in 2015!

I like Batman.. but

And I'm one of the "bring on the reboot" people.
I think a reboot can have an even STRONGER characterization of the man in the suit, and a more accurate depiction of the genre. But if anything should be fast-tracked other than MOS2, it's Wonder Woman.

 

[slumcat]

Great interview with the writer of the Superman art book. He talks about a lot of interesting things, specifically about how Snyder and Cavill brought one aspect of Superman that had never before been brought to the screen, namely the physical awe of the visual image of Superman and how powerful and god like he looks in comics.

Physically speaking, this Man of Steel looks nothing like any of the previous film incarnations. Henry Cavill got into incredible shape for the role of Superman, adding bulk and muscle, something that is really highlighted by the new suit. Do you think that this defining aspect of the character came from Henry or from Snyder or Nolan?
I think the physicality really comes from Zack Snyder. Going back to his film 300, you can see how the Spartan warriors are in such incredible physical shape, and how it really helps sell the visual experience of ancient, armed combat. Superman is similar. His powers come from his genetics, not his muscles, and neither Christopher Reeve nor Brandon Routh is hugely muscular. But Superman is powerful, and having an actor who just looks powerful is strong visual shorthand. Superman in the comics is a pretty bulked-up guy, and when you see Henry Cavill with his shirt off in that one scene where he climbs onto shore following the oil rig rescue, you really feel like "this guy is a straight-up superhero"!

http://henrycavill.org/en/exclusive...lks-henry-cavill-and-man-of-steel-in-new-book

 

[Bren]

My parents (+60 years old) watched the film last night. They're very occasional movie goers at best, but I've managed to drag them to watch the IM and Batman trilogies plus Avengers which they enjoyed (Batman the most). They thought Thor was okay but a little silly and never watched CA.

They both said they loved the film. Their negatives; felt it was a little choppy at times; why didn't he save his Dad, and the last fight went on a bit long.

But my Mom's last words about the film I really enjoyed; "But it was epic and Superman was great and I feel so sorry for him he had to kill the last of his kind to save that family! I was so shocked!"

My Dad didn't say much (never does hehe) but said he's definitely watching the sequel.

Except for TDKR and Avengers this was the only one they went to watch without me pestering them

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Good story. Stories like these make me think that I'm not bewitched for liking this film

 

[Herolee10]

Honestly, when it comes to Pa Kent's death scene, if I could have reworked that scene in a different way, I would have gone about it where Clark and Jonathan get trapped under a pile of rubble, trucks perhaps, from the force of the tornado approaching and that it was shown that Jonathan was starting to have a heart attack.

The only way to break out of there and get his dad to the hospital in time for them to do some good would be by using his strength to lift up the cars. However, Jonathan is able to see that a group of people are standing across the street from them and knows that if Clark uses his strength now, they'll see him, so Pa Kent holds onto Clark tightly and begs him not to lift up the rubble over them and to wait for the emergency crew to arrive (but Jonathan knows that he's going to die beforehand), and Clark regretfully does so while being held by his dad and Jonathan dies right when the emergency crew arrive to help them get out of the rubble.

 

[Tanin]

Comic Con photos of the suits close up:
http://sifu-kisu.tumblr.com/post/55912294333

 

[Marvin]

Honestly, when it comes to Pa Kent's death scene, if I could have reworked that scene in a different way, I would have gone about it where Clark and Jonathan get trapped under a pile of rubble, trucks perhaps, from the force of the tornado approaching and that it was shown that Jonathan was starting to have a heart attack.

The only way to break out of there and get his dad to the hospital in time for them to do some good would be by using his strength to lift up the cars. However, Jonathan is able to see that a group of people are standing across the street from them and knows that if Clark uses his strength now, they'll see him, so Pa Kent holds onto Clark tightly and begs him not to lift up the rubble over them and to wait for the emergency crew to arrive (but Jonathan knows that he's going to die beforehand), and Clark regretfully does so while being held by his dad and Jonathan dies right when the emergency crew arrive to help them get out of the rubble.

^curious how this fixes anything(outside of paying homage to the old heart attack).
honest question.