BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 29

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[The Shape]

They wrote it so that Clark had to steal the clothes after the oil rig explosion. They could have written that differently, too.

I feel almost speechless when I hear this criticism. It's beyond stupid.

The dude grabbed some clean clothes after his other clothes burned off and became soaking wet after he saved several people from a collapsing oil rig. Rather than walk around half naked and attract attention to himself, he took clothes he saw. Yes, they were someone else's clothes. Yes, that is technically stealing, but we're not talking about Superman here. We're talking about a Clark Kent who was wandering around the country, using fake names and trying to stay hidden, not knowing what to make of himself. This was before he discovered his heritage and before he knew what his purpose as Superman was.

I think it's more believable that Clark didn't have a "6th sense" of goodness from birth that prevented him from ever doing anything wrong in his life. Remember, he was raised by humans as a human...amongst humans. Humans make mistakes and aren't always on the straight and narrow. Yes, his parents were good people, but even kids raised by good parents will make mistakes in life (shoplifting, bullying, vandalism, etc). Even Clark destroying that *****ebag's 18-wheeler is acceptable to me. Yes, his father taught him to avoid confrontations, but that doesn't mean Clark didn't want to retaliate in some way or get some personal satisfaction out of messing with a guy who had just dumped beer on his head for no reason at all. And again, that was before he knew he was essential a god among men and a symbol for hope and all that jazz.

An important theme of MOS, to me, is Clark's transformation from one of us to something greater. This is something that Donner's Superman didn't really explore, so I was glad that we got to see something new in MOS.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ To me, the stealing of pants didn't "break the character" because there was no other realistic option. It isn't something I LIKED, but leaving heat-damaged clothes on would incur further questioning from outsiders.

 

[Broseph44]

I feel almost speechless when I hear this criticism. It's beyond stupid.

The dude grabbed some clean clothes after his other clothes burned off and became soaking wet after he saved several people from a collapsing oil rig. Rather than walk around half naked and attract attention to himself, he took clothes he saw. Yes, they were someone else's clothes. Yes, that is technically stealing, but we're not talking about Superman here. We're talking about a Clark Kent who was wandering around the country, using fake names and trying to stay hidden, not knowing what to make of himself. This was before he discovered his heritage and before he knew what his purpose as Superman was.

I think it's more believable that Clark didn't have a "6th sense" of goodness from birth that prevented him from ever doing anything wrong in his life. Remember, he was raised by humans as a human...amongst humans. Humans make mistakes and aren't always on the straight and narrow. Yes, his parents were good people, but even kids raised by good parents will make mistakes in life (shoplifting, bullying, vandalism, etc). Even Clark destroying that *****ebag's 18-wheeler is acceptable to me. Yes, his father taught him to avoid confrontations, but that doesn't mean Clark didn't want to retaliate in some way or get some personal satisfaction out of messing with a guy who had just dumped beer on his head for no reason at all. And again, that was before he knew he was essential a god among men and a symbol for hope and all that jazz.

An important theme of MOS, to me, is Clark's transformation from one of us to something greater. This is something that Donner's Superman didn't really explore, so I was glad that we got to see something new in MOS.

Thank you voice of reason. People are making wayyyyyy too much of things like this. It's ridiculous.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I think it's more believable that Clark didn't have a "6th sense" of goodness from birth that prevented him from ever doing anything wrong in his life.

He's never meant to have a sixth sense. His goodness is supposed to come from his parents and how he was raised.

An important theme of MOS, to me, is Clark's transformation from one of us to something greater.

Honestly I didn't see that character evolution in the movie

Yes, that is technically stealing

"Technically"

 

[InJustice]

I feel almost speechless when I hear this criticism. It's beyond stupid.

The dude grabbed some clean clothes after his other clothes burned off and became soaking wet after he saved several people from a collapsing oil rig. Rather than walk around half naked and attract attention to himself, he took clothes he saw. Yes, they were someone else's clothes. Yes, that is technically stealing, but we're not talking about Superman here. We're talking about a Clark Kent who was wandering around the country, using fake names and trying to stay hidden, not knowing what to make of himself. This was before he discovered his heritage and before he knew what his purpose as Superman was.

I think it's more believable that Clark didn't have a "6th sense" of goodness from birth that prevented him from ever doing anything wrong in his life. Remember, he was raised by humans as a human...amongst humans. Humans make mistakes and aren't always on the straight and narrow. Yes, his parents were good people, but even kids raised by good parents will make mistakes in life (shoplifting, bullying, vandalism, etc). Even Clark destroying that *****ebag's 18-wheeler is acceptable to me. Yes, his father taught him to avoid confrontations, but that doesn't mean Clark didn't want to retaliate in some way or get some personal satisfaction out of messing with a guy who had just dumped beer on his head for no reason at all. And again, that was before he knew he was essential a god among men and a symbol for hope and all that jazz.

An important theme of MOS, to me, is Clark's transformation from one of us to something greater. This is something that Donner's Superman didn't really explore, so I was glad that we got to see something new in MOS.

FINALLY a voice of reason.

Getting real tired of people saying "OMFG this is not Superman!" when the whole point of that scene is that Clark never really established himself as Superman.

 

[Poni_Boy]

^ To me, the stealing of pants didn't "break the character" because there was no other realistic option. It isn't something I LIKED, but leaving heat-damaged clothes on would incur further questioning from outsiders.

And that's where the writing comes in. They wrote him into the situation where stealing clothes was the only option. But there are definitely other options on the table.

 

[Broseph44]

We get it Poni. You hate the movie and his characterization and the "bad writing" Yada Yada.

 

[InJustice]

And that's where the writing comes in. They wrote him into the situation where stealing clothes was the only option. But there are definitely other options on the table.

What other options are there?

 

[charl_huntress]

This is certainly off-topic, but is that DiCaprio poplocking? t:

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Where's the David Goyer dead horse pic when you need it?

 

[InJustice]

Where's the David Goyer dead horse pic when you need it?

 

[Poni_Boy]

What other options are there?

Top of my head?

Asking them for the clothes (which shows him by example that there are charitable people around)

Having someone see him all disheveled and give him clothing (same as above)

Finding them in a Goodwill bin (what's another brand sponsorship amirite)

 

[Poni_Boy]

This is certainly off-topic, but is that DiCaprio poplocking? t:

Stop what you're doing and go watch The Wolf of Wall Street immediately

 

[X Knight]

well, stealing is stealing.

Those clothes didn't belong to Clark, and that family didn't do anything to Clark or anything to "deserve" that.

If they wanted to show Clark taking those clothes out of necessity, they could have added a scene where Clark returns to that home later on and drops off a wad of cash to pay them back.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I have very little interest in seeing Superman portrayed as some ultimate goody two shoes who never does anything wrong and always makes the right decisions. Sure he's a good guy, maybe the best of us but should still be capable of making mistakes and having self doubt over hard choices.

The stealing clothes thing is a silly thing to gripe about imo. Oh those poor people, they'll probably lose their house without that pair of pants. How could you, Superman? Damn youuuuuuuuuu!

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[Marvin]

Exaaaactly. Everything included in a movie is a conscious decision by the filmmakers. For me it's the opposite of seeing the forest for the trees.

Having a writer polish the script is hardly going to do anything about the producer/director mandates. Ergo superman killing, superman stealing clothes is still going to happen. It's only going to be "better written", these ideas will still be filtered through the same higher ups you've accused of wanting these things to happen in the first place.

Superman killing is going to annoy people that hate superman killing...weather it's written by 'goyer the devil' or otherwise.

 

[MrMaooz]

This is certainly off-topic, but is that DiCaprio poplocking? t:

Just watch the movie Charl, Dicaprio does better and greater things.

 

[The Shape]

well, stealing is stealing.

Those clothes didn't belong to Clark, and that family didn't do anything to Clark or anything to "deserve" that.

If they wanted to show Clark taking those clothes out of necessity, they could have added a scene where Clark returns to that home later on and drops off a wad of cash to pay them back.

Oh, come on now...

 

[X Knight]

Top of my head?

Asking them for the clothes (which shows him by example that there are charitable people around)

Having someone see him all disheveled and give him clothing (same as above)

Finding them in a Goodwill bin (what's another brand sponsorship amirite)

exactly, and I was just thinking of stuff like that, too.

or, they could have written it where Clark makes his way back to his own cabin or wherever he was living at the time.

There he changes clothes then packs up his stuff to hit the road again.

And that would have been a nice visual way of showing how Clark never stays in one place for too long. After doing something heroic, he finds he has to move on to avoid suspicion.

 

[MrMaooz]

well, stealing is stealing.

Those clothes didn't belong to Clark, and that family didn't do anything to Clark or anything to "deserve" that.

If they wanted to show Clark taking those clothes out of necessity, they could have added a scene where Clark returns to that home later on and drops off a wad of cash to pay them back.

 

[InJustice]

Asking them for the clothes (which shows him by example that there are charitable people around)

Having someone see him all disheveled and give him clothing (same as above)

And Clark's appearance isn't going to set off a couple of alarm bells for these citizens? (black skin, ripped pants). Who's to say that news didn't break of the oil rig crashing + witness accounts of a "saviour"?

Hence, the whole logic of the film in that sequence is for Clark to be incognito.

Finding them in a Goodwill bin (what's another brand sponsorship amirite)

Seeing as how Clark was in a small town, I highly doubt there are goodwill bins.

 

[X Knight]

Oh, come on now...

well, for me, it's an honor issue.

stealing is wrong....period.

Clark doesn't have to be perfect, but knowing not to steal should be a basic principle that he should understand.