BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

[smallville fan]

Does the Justice League have a non alien foe?

Vandal Savage? Legion of Doom?

 

[herolee10]

Vandal Savage? Legion of Doom?

Honestly, I wonder at times as to what threat can Vandal Savage really do to the Justice League unless he has a army, one with powers, at his disposal that could take on the Justice League.

 

[John-An]

Does the Justice League have a non alien foe?

The Secret Society, Metahumans, The league of Shadows, the wizard, Queen Bee, Checkmate, killer elite, Prometheus, Gog, Titans, Amazo (could be in Secret Society), T.O. Morrow (could be attached on previous teams)

 

[John-An]

Honestly, I wonder at times as to what threat can Vandal Savage really do to the Justice League unless he has a army, one with powers, at his disposal that could take on the Justice League.

His mind and his enormous experience my friend..

 

[smallville fan]

Missing a hero? He saved BILLIONS of people despite killing a good amount of Metropolis' people in his fight with Zod. The point of the movie is Kal-El learns how to become the hero he's going to be in the future. I don't see why people wanted a remake of Superman: The Movie.

I agree with this. I for one, loved MOS and all the important people I know of who've seen the film loved it too. To me, the movie was a first act of a much larger story ie the story of the DC Universe which only Superman's heroics are a small part of. All that stuff that happened in MOS are pretty much the plot devices for future films to come.

I have to ask though, I've been looking back at past forum posts in the years 2006-2011 approximately, where people have been begging and praying and would donate their organs for a movie just like Man of Steel, what changed?

Honestly, I wonder at times as to what threat can Vandal Savage really do to the Justice League unless he has a army, one with powers, at his disposal that could take on the Justice League.

Well there was:

On another note,

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/10/...story-in-a-2-minute-animated-short-exclusive/

 

[Bathead]

never mind

 

[Bathead]

Does the Justice League have a non alien foe?

Does Amazo count? he was after all invented by an Earth scientist. And the Legion of Doom is mostly Earth villains.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I agree with this. I for one, loved MOS and all the important people I know of who've seen the film loved it too. To me, the movie was a first act of a much larger story ie the story of the DC Universe which only Superman's heroics are a small part of. All that stuff that happened in MOS are pretty much the plot devices for future films to come.

I have to ask though, I've been looking back at past forum posts in the years 2006-2011 approximately, where people have been begging and praying and would donate their organs for a movie just like Man of Steel, what changed?



Well there was:

On another note,

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/10/...story-in-a-2-minute-animated-short-exclusive/

That featured the Legion of Doom. I think Savage could be a good enough threat on his own

 

[herolee10]

His mind and his enormous experience my friend..

lol; well that I know, I just meant when it came to physical confrontations because even though he's an immortal, there's not much that he can do to go up against some of the super powered heroes in a direct confrontation unless he had help or backup imho like he did in the Justice League: Doom film.

 

[herolee10]

I mean ideally, if it were up to you guys, which group of foes would you guys have working with Vandal Savage in the way that Loki had the Chitauri working for him to take on the Avengers?

 

[Loki882]

The White Martians.

 

[shauner111]

I agree with this. I for one, loved MOS and all the important people I know of who've seen the film loved it too. To me, the movie was a first act of a much larger story ie the story of the DC Universe which only Superman's heroics are a small part of. All that stuff that happened in MOS are pretty much the plot devices for future films to come.

I have to ask though, I've been looking back at past forum posts in the years 2006-2011 approximately, where people have been begging and praying and would donate their organs for a movie just like Man of Steel, what changed?

It's because people are NEVER happy. They're ungrateful for what they get. People who beg for a movie like MOS, then it happens and they still find things to nitpick. It happens with every movie. This is why you get people saying "well then make your own movie if you're not content with it!". It's not to be an ******* it's just the way it is. Of course im not talking about people who simply wanted to see something else and didn't enjoy it. It's like...if people got TDKR after Batman & Robin they would be crying of happiness. But they got spoilt with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. They take for granted that batman was in the hole for 8 years (in live-action film) and before that we had to put up with 2 super-campy flicks of Bat-crap. Which almost brought the franchise back to the 1960's. Do you know what people would have done to see something like The Dark Knight Rises back in the mid 90s all the way to the mid 2000s?

Batman vs Superman will suffer the same thing. Im one of these people probably. If the writing isn't as great as I thought. I should shut the **** up and be grateful. It's a crossover that many of us having been waiting for, for decades. These may not be the greatest actors in the business or the greatest director of the century. But they're solid enough to bring the characters to life and have it look fantastic on screen. The writing could be great or just mediocre. Goyer didn't do a horrible job in MOS, he did better than that. Even if he wasn't the best.

Ill appreciate what im getting. It's not like it's an original film based on nothing where I have the right to say this is nonsense. BvS with people who aren't terrible at their job...sounds like a win for me as a fan.

 

[smallville fan]

I mean ideally, if it were up to you guys, which group of foes would you guys have working with Vandal Savage in the way that Loki had the Chitauri working for him to take on the Avengers?

It's because people are NEVER happy. They're ungrateful for what they get. People who beg for a movie like MOS, then it happens and they still find things to nitpick. It happens with every movie. This is why you get people saying "well then make your own movie if you're not content with it!". It's not to be an ******* it's just the way it is. Of course im not talking about people who simply wanted to see something else and didn't enjoy it. It's like...if people got TDKR after Batman & Robin they would be crying of happiness. But they got spoilt with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. They take for granted that batman was in the hole for 8 years (in live-action film) and before that we had to put up with 2 super-campy flicks of Bat-crap. Which almost brought the franchise back to the 1960's. Do you know what people would have done to see something like The Dark Knight Rises back in the mid 90s all the way to the mid 2000s?

Batman vs Superman will suffer the same thing. Im one of these people probably. If the writing isn't as great as I thought. I should shut the **** up and be grateful. It's a crossover that many of us having been waiting for, for decades. These may not be the greatest actors in the business or the greatest director of the century. But they're solid enough to bring the characters to life and have it look fantastic on screen. The writing could be great or just mediocre. Goyer didn't do a horrible job in MOS, he did better than that. Even if he wasn't the best.

Ill appreciate what im getting. It's not like it's an original film based on nothing where I have the right to say this is nonsense. BvS with people who aren't terrible at their job...sounds like a win for me as a fan.

I'd agree, but yet I see no nitpicking with Avengers

 

[DA_Champion]

It's because people are NEVER happy.

Simply not true, there are many comic book movies that people have been a lot more happy with. Overall, when I peruse fandom, I see general satisfaction with the Nolan films, with X2, with First Class, with Spider Man 1 and 2, with Sin City, with The Avengers, with Sin City, with Iron Man 1, etc.

Satisfaction will always be between 0 and 100, but that doesn't mean the approval rate is always the same.

 

[shauner111]

I suspect that BvS is going to be like 300 with some global politics thrown in. We'll see Batman and Superman teaming up to fight one villain after another, one action sequence after another, with a parallel plot involving global politics and Lois Lane doing interviews. The movie will end with B and S teaming up to destroy Lex's army of robots, which was paid for by many governments.

I don't see this movie as some team up movie. This is definitely going to be a Batman VERSUS Superman movie. They wont team up unless it's the very end where they figure out Lex's plan. But not before we see a massive fight between Bats and Supes. This really is a versus movie. There's no doubt about it. Otherwise Goyer wouldn't say "the titles we're throwing around right now are Superman vs Batman or vice-versa".

 

[DA_Champion]

I'd agree, but yet I see no nitpicking with Avengers

That's simply because fans and even non-fans were happier with that film. It had greater and deeper appeal.

 

[John-An]

lol; well that I know, I just meant when it came to physical confrontations because even though he's an immortal, there's not much that he can do to go up against some of the super powered heroes in a direct confrontation unless he had help or backup imho like he did in the Justice League: Doom film.

of course a physical confrontation by his own is impossible but with a little help like in JL: Doom will be a good start..

 

[DA_Champion]

I don't see this movie as some team up movie. This is definitely going to be a Batman VERSUS Superman movie. They wont team up unless it's the very end where they figure out Lex's plan. But not before we see a massive fight between Bats and Supes. This really is a versus movie. There's no doubt about it. Otherwise Goyer wouldn't say "the titles we're throwing around right now are Superman vs Batman or vice-versa".

I'd prefer a versus movie, but I expect a team-up movie.

They have also been quote as saying that Public Enemies and World's Finest are under consideration for the title.

 

[John-An]

I mean ideally, if it were up to you guys, which group of foes would you guys have working with Vandal Savage in the way that Loki had the Chitauri working for him to take on the Avengers?

obviously the secret society or the legion of doom...

 

[shauner111]

Simply not true, there are many comic book movies that people have been a lot more happy with. Overall, when I peruse fandom, I see general satisfaction with the Nolan films, with X2, with First Class, with Spider Man 1 and 2, with Sin City, with The Avengers, with Sin City, with Iron Man 1, etc.

Satisfaction will always be between 0 and 100, but that doesn't mean the approval rate is always the same.

That's because people never saw Spider-Man before or Sin City or Iron Man. The amount of people is irrelevant, it's just the fact that a lot of these people are around. We're all guilty of it sometimes. When I mention Batman vs Superman as an example or MOS, it's because these are two characters that have been around for a long time. There's MULTIPLE movies about them. Times when we're stuck with utter campy **** with both Batman and Superman, and during those times we put our geeky hands together and pray for a Batman that's darker or taken more seriously with better actors, directors, costumes. Praying for a Superman that kicks major ass that has scenes where he's struggling as an alien while living in a world full of unrelatable humans. Even people who just a year ago were losing their minds about not wanting a Justice League, nope, they wanted Batman/Superman. When they get MOS or BvS theyre still not happy even though it's not as if it's going to be done like Superman Returns or Batman & Robin or Green Lantern.

People hear that it might be SLIGHTLY based on Frank Miller's DKReturns, and guess what? It's nothing but "screw Frank Miller that's gonna suck!". Imagine if in the late 90s to early 2000s if fans were told about something influenced by Frank Miller compared to what **** they just had to endure with both characters?? They would cry in happiness. Just like I said.

It's called people being ungrateful.

 

[John-An]

Simply not true, there are many comic book movies that people have been a lot more happy with. Overall, when I peruse fandom, I see general satisfaction with the Nolan films, with X2, with First Class, with Spider Man 1 and 2, with Sin City, with The Avengers, with Sin City, with Iron Man 1, etc.

Satisfaction will always be between 0 and 100, but that doesn't mean the approval rate is always the same.

TDKR, TDk (a little by purist of the joker comic book looking) , X2 many of them were against many aspects that Singer took away... Spiderman 1 the power ranger goblin, Spiderman 2 middle transition pretty weak and tedious, Avengers puny threat and too much comedy, Iron Man 1 final battle weak.. many fans and non-fans were against some points..
I REMEMBER THE BATMAN BEGINS.. IS not like Tim burton's bats, reboot?, the change between Duncan- Ras... and when TDK came many people saw the real point of all what BB build.. MOS is gonna have the same treatment when future movies come...
the point is NOT ALL THE PEOPLE IS GONNA LIKE ONE MOVIE....

 

[John-An]

That's simply because fans and even non-fans were happier with that film. It had greater and deeper appeal.

Avengers puny threat and too much comedy.. NOT ALL FANS WERE HAPPIER AND not all the GA liked all from the movie and the movie itself.. so your point is not valid

 

[John-An]

I don't see this movie as some team up movie. This is definitely going to be a Batman VERSUS Superman movie. They wont team up unless it's the very end where they figure out Lex's plan. But not before we see a massive fight between Bats and Supes. This really is a versus movie. There's no doubt about it. Otherwise Goyer wouldn't say "the titles we're throwing around right now are Superman vs Batman or vice-versa".

I see smth similar as in Batman/Superman new 52 series like the two not knowing each other and not trusting, but in the end will become friends and a team up movie

 

[MrMaooz]

"Saving billions of lives" has also been done in the movies Skyline, Battle: Los Angeles, War of the Worlds, Pacific Rim, Star Trek, Star Trek into Darkness, Transformers, Transformers II, Transformers III, and Battleship. The movie Independence Day came out nearly twenty years ago, and thus the alien invasion plot is no longer that exciting in and of itself. A lot of moviegoers need more. Like a compelling character arc.


Strawman. There are plenty of great and beloved Superman stories that are not remakes of S:TM, disproving your implication that only one Superman story is well-liked.

Yeah, this better not have an alien invasion.

I'm not sick of it per say, but this needs to have a smaller scale, action wise.

 

[MrMaooz]

Avengers puny threat and too much comedy.. NOT ALL FANS WERE HAPPIER AND not all the GA liked all from the movie and the movie itself.. so your point is not valid

The GA loved that movie a lot more than MOS. I love it more too.