All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

Discussion in 'Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice' started by Thread Manager, Oct 10, 2013.

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  1. KRYPTON INC.

    KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    Honestly, I took ALL the reactions to MOS, negative and positive as a measure of how much love and goodwill the character still has in the hearts and minds of the general public. That I also ADORED the film was almost gravy.
     
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  2. Loki882

    Loki882 Well-Known Member

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    I loved BOTH films. I just get annoyed when some people put one down to praise the other, and vice versa.
     
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  3. herolee10

    herolee10 No More Miracles

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    Agreed on both points.

    I mean I have issues with both films, but I still enjoy them as well and recognize the good stuff that the films have achieved as well.

    Plus, I wonder how people can even compare to the two films given that "The Avenges" is an ensemble piece where several heroes come together, whereas "MOS" is an origins film where it modernizes Superman's upbringing for today's audiences.
     
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  4. herolee10

    herolee10 No More Miracles

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    On another note, does anyone else feel that Snyder should use more of his own trademark style for this next film or if he should continue to use the JJ Abrams' like techniques (Lens Flares, Fast Zoom Ins) that he had used in MOS for this film?
     
    #304
  5. DA_Champion

    DA_Champion Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with your comment that child Clark delayed the "good parts" of the film, in large part because they were the good parts of the movie. For many viewers, and several reviewers and I did read a lot of reviews of MoS, the scenes involving ma and pa kent were the best scenes in the movie. The studio recognised it as well as this is what they chose to include in the previews. Personally, I thought that Diane Lane was the most compelling actress or actor in the movie, and I know a lot of other people thought so too. What warmth there was in the movie came from Martha's love.

    This is an origin story, and Clark is unique among the major superheroes in that his canonical story is very, very, heavily dependent on his adoptive parents. They're a big deal in the 1986-2010 comics continuity (I don't know about the other continuities), they were a big deal on Smallville, and a big deal on Lois and Clark, and a big deal in the Donnerverse. It's not like Green Lantern, or Captain America, where the parents and the childhood don't get a prominent role in the story, it's expected for Superman.

    Whereas Batman is arguably defined by the struggle to deal with watching his parents get murdered, Superman is partly defined by the fact he was raised in a loving home. Clark Kent becomes Superman because his parents didn't get murdered. I argue it's important to show this.

    But they didn't show much of this. We got maybe 10 minutes combined of screen time for Ma and Pa Kent. We instead got 30-40 minutes of Crowe-El being the ultimate cliché and one of the least compelling and least interesting characters I've ever seen in a comic book movie, and 45 minutes of endless CGI action including a fight with the giant metal squid in the Indian Ocean, and precious little of ma and pa kent.

    The scenes of Clark growing up did not delay the better part of the movie. They were the better part of the movie. I personally think they were tied with the early Lois scenes, but critics overall raved uniquely specified the scenes with ma and pa kent as the best part of the movie, so I'm outnumbered and overruled. A better MoS would not have had less of childhood Clark, it would have had more, at the expense of the weak science fiction of Krypton, the fight with the giant metal squid, and possibly the Zod fight. There would have been more character development this way... we are after all talking about a beloved character, so why not show the character? Add some scenes with Martha, maybe add a friendship scene with Pete Ross or Lana Lang, or, if it were up to, maybe add some small talk with Lois Lane or Clark working at the Smallville Ledger.

    A good writer doesn't need the tension of endless action sequences to emotionally connect the viewers. Go watch the movies Rush or Gravity, in theatres now, to see what spectacular character work looks like.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  6. DA_Champion

    DA_Champion Well-Known Member

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    Not everybody likes every movie, but overall X2, First Class, Batman trilogy, Spider Man 1 and 2 were all better-liked by their fans than MoS. They also have better ratings. Spider Man and Batman also have more fans.

    Aside from that, I know rabid Twilight fans, rabid Harry Potter fans, rabid Lord of the Rings fans, and rabid Hunger Games fans, and I ask those fans how their fandoms reacted to those movies, and they all tell me that the reaction was generally positive. Harry Potter and Twilight are both comparably or more popular than Superman. I know that some small number of HP fans were unhappy, but overall the verdict is clear: the fandom largely loved the movies.

    So it's not true that fans always complain, it's a totally fictional ********. It's true that there will always be a small fraction of fans that complain, but it's not necessarily a large fraction. At one extreme you have movies like MoS, Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, and Star Trek into Darkness, where most of the fans complain. At the other end, you have adaptations that are both good and true to the source material, and in those cases fans are happy. Most fans of Twilight, Batman, or Harry Potter are happy with the adaptations made.

    Make a good movie, be faithful to the source material, and the fans will love you.


    Ungrateful? Are fans supposed to be happy with any movie made? LoL, no.

    If the fans get a good Superman movie, they get a good Superman movie. If the studio makes a good Superman movie, they get billions of dollars, both in direct profits (the movie) and indirect profits from sustaining the franchise long-term.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  7. Smallville13

    Smallville13 Well-Known Member

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    I suspect we won't get the handheld style again. However the lens flares and zooms seem to be standard fare with Summer films these days (whether they will be in 2015 though) so I can see Snyder still using them.

    I think we'll see a sort of fusion of the look of MOS with more measured and aligned camera angles (no shakiness on talking heads). I can't see Snyder going back the more sterile sound-stagey aesthetic of Sucker-Punch/300. He definitely developed a better look for MOS.
     
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  8. herolee10

    herolee10 No More Miracles

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    I wouldn't say that MOS had most of Superman's fans complaining....I'd say that dividing it down the middle is a more accurate statement since for ever comment that I've seen of people saying that they didn't like, I've seen almost as much for people who said that they did like it.
     
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  9. herolee10

    herolee10 No More Miracles

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    I just hope that they have WETA or even ILM handling MOST of the effects of the film as opposed to relying on Double Negative since I wasn't the biggest fan of some of the effects for the latter half of MOS.
     
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  10. Glassjaw

    Glassjaw In training

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    Yeah thats how ive interpreted it. I'm in both camps, at the same time.
     
    #310
  11. Lencho01

    Lencho01 Shazoogle! Shazoogle!

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    That was pretty cool.

    I'm surprised they didn't reference Lois & Clark given its popularity.

    The Smallville and Kingdom Come bit was weird. Would've been awesome if they actually made a fully animated Kingdom Come segment rather than it looking like a motion comic.
     
    #311
  12. Dragon_316ca

    Dragon_316ca Well-Known Member

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    #312
  13. ThePowerCosmic

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    Well, that's early.
     
    #313
  14. TheFlamingCoco

    TheFlamingCoco Well-Known Member

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    They'd probably have to use CGI :D

    But what I like about the short is that you can tell when it's representing someone live action (such as Reeve) by the change in lighting/shading.
     
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  15. Smallville13

    Smallville13 Well-Known Member

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    #315
  16. herolee10

    herolee10 No More Miracles

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    That doesn't seem to make sense, unless it's a scene involving just extras since we would have heard A LOT more official casting announcements and be given an actual title before principal photography commenced for this.

    Not to mention that I can't see on how Snyder would be available to start filming this since that would mean that he would have had to have done pre productions with story boards and character designs during when he was during press for MOS and he's currently serving as producer for the 300 Sequel as well.
     
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  17. ThePowerCosmic

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    Who's to say he wasn't doing story boards and character designs back then? MOS had been mostly done for a while. Plus, he might not even be that involved with the 300 sequel.
     
    #317
  18. Alonsovich

    Alonsovich Schumacher's Spider-man

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    I think a better question is... Why Gotham University in a story where Batman is older?
     
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  19. herolee10

    herolee10 No More Miracles

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    That is true; I mean this was originally slated to have been released in Winter 2012.

    Still, it kind of worries me that they would rush into filming so soon since I'd feel more comfortable if they gave as much time as they could to the story and making it the best that they possibly could.

    And yeah, even with all of that aside, we should have gotten an official title and other major casting announcements before filming began.
     
    #319
  20. sf2

    sf2 Well-Known Member

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    Love your signature, Lencho. However it is difficult to be done. They tried to do it in S4 and it was a disaster.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  21. sf2

    sf2 Well-Known Member

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    Rush?
    FF7 will be out in 2014, you know.
     
    #321
  22. Lencho01

    Lencho01 Shazoogle! Shazoogle!

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    I doubt WB would be willing to give that much money to make that happen.

    I'm kinda surprised at all the Lois Lane comments in the EW article.
     
    #322
  23. Kryptonian Warrior

    Kryptonian Warrior The Dawn Is Upon Us

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    Because it's part of the story? Remember in TDKR when they showed a "Gotham Rogues" football game? Yeah, Bruce wasn't on the team. It was part of the story arc. smh
     
    #323
  24. herolee10

    herolee10 No More Miracles

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    That's another decision that I wasn't a fan of hearing as well. Because of Universal wanting to rush that film out, they lost both the original director and Dwayne Johnson.
     
    #324
  25. Kryptonian Warrior

    Kryptonian Warrior The Dawn Is Upon Us

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    I bet this is one of those scenes that they have known that they were going to do for a while. I mean, they have had a story in mind for a while now. Besides, it's not like the main cast is going to be there. It's going to be centered around the game that's going on and the crowd will be involved. Granted, it does say that "actors" will be filmed, but I can almost guarantee you that it's small, side characters. Also, remember a few weeks ago Goyer said that they were further along than what people realized? It's going to be OK, I promise! :woot:
     
    #325
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