BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 34

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

A lot of critics didn't understand Sucker Punch. That doesn't make their opinion of the movie 'uninformed'.

You don't have to understand everything about a movie to have a valid opinion of it.

Even if you didn't know that the flying around the world scene was not supposed to be played for laughs, it doesn't make your opinion of the movie invalid, especially with a 70's movie, where it's potentially unclear what constitutes as campy during the time.

 

[Kevin Smith]

She didn't die.



That's called arrogance. You're saying agree with me or you're uneducated (a euphemism for stupid?). But yes, it is time to move on.



Lovely panel. Gives me feels every time.

Great panels.

 

[Poni_Boy]

So my dislike comes from misunderstanding rather than plain ol dislike. Right. Maybe it was simply not my taste. Maybe it doesn't go any deeper than that.
Maybe disliking this movie doesn't make me stupid.

First off, I never said you were stupid. I said your opinion about the movie was uneducated. And you continuously back that up by stating that you didn't understand MAJOR storytelling aspects of the movie. Like that it was supposed to be a serious take on Superman. Heck, you didn't even know Lois died at the end? C'mon now. You can't blame me for believing that.

Then you go on and repeat ad nauseum that "you don't care" about the filmmakers intentions or "you don't care" about story aspects... that we are trying to explain to you. No one is saying you have to like the movie, but it's like you willfully want to categorize it as a "bad movie" in an effort to.. I don't know what.. so you wrote it off when the opening credits rolled.

I just don't get it. Can't we just say that you like it and I don't? Or is it just like I said and that no one can dislike this movie without being uneducated or silly?

But I don't really like it. Liking it has nothing to do with it.

This is what I meant earlier, if you come out swinging with "MOS was the only serious Superman adaptation made" and follow it with "STM was just a bad movie" don't expect everyone to just go with it. You don't have to crap on the past to make way for the future. And if you do it with an uneducated basis expect people to call you out on it.

 

[Boom]

Sucker Punch was one of the most mind-numbing cinematic experiences of my life.

Good God do I hate that movie.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I love this. I have that issue of Superman Adventures up there (awesome to see Mark Waid and Mark Millar on the book back then). Man I miss that book. That and the Batman Adventures comic. Great stuff.

 

[MrsKent26]

See...again...it wasn't meant to be convenient (quite the opposite...it was forbidden by JorEl, and for good reason when you think about it)...but I guess the 'cheesiness' of the effects by today's standards took away from it. Although from the sounds of it, the film had already lost your interest way before.

If anything, it puts great moral weight on him that he actually took tat step...even if just a 'one time thing'. Something that some actually complain he wasn't held responsible for.

The effects did bug me, but that wasn't the reason. I just hated that they did all this stuff, did some character moments and then reversed it all. I don't care about it being forbidden. It was cheesy and negated things they should have either not done or had him deal with.

 

[Poni_Boy]

A lot of critics didn't understand Sucker Punch. That doesn't make their opinion of the movie 'uninformed'.

There's a huge difference in comparing the concept and execution of a psychedilic story within a story like Sucker Punch and a straightforward narrative like Superman The Movie

 

[Poni_Boy]

On this note, Poni Boy...I guess some people really do find Harryhausen's animation choppy and rudimentary by today's standards. Kids these days.....

I have to keep reminding myself that this generation of fans feels the need to shun the past to glorify their present state of entertainment haha

 

[Poni_Boy]

I still look at King Kong and marvel at it out of appreciation.

It's so great to look at these movies that were the building blocks of the current state of entertainment. I love it even more now that I'm older and can LAUGH when I see archaic stop motion dinosaur and monster stuff. It's cute and funny and entertaining and crazy all at the same time. And it's just unfair to compare them to today's $200 mil CG blockbusters. They're entirely different animals.

And I feel sorry of they people who in essence emulate George Lucas, like they're embarrassed about the past

 

[MrsKent26]

First off, I never said you were stupid. I said your opinion about the movie was uneducated. And you continuously back that up by stating that you didn't understand MAJOR storytelling aspects of the movie. Like that it was supposed to be a serious take on Superman. Heck, you didn't even know Lois died at the end? C'mon now. You can't blame me for believing that.

Then you go on and repeat ad nauseum that "you don't care" about the filmmakers intentions or "you don't care" about story aspects... that we are trying to explain to you. No one is saying you have to like the movie, but it's like you willfully want to categorize it as a "bad movie" in an effort to.. I don't know what.. so you wrote it off when the opening credits rolled.



But I don't really like it. Liking it has nothing to do with it.

This is what I meant earlier, if you come out swinging with "MOS was the only serious Superman adaptation made" and follow it with "STM was just a bad movie" don't expect everyone to just go with it. You don't have to crap on the past to make way for the future. And if you do it with an uneducated basis expect people to call you out on it.

She did not die in the version or the movie I watched. He reversed time and she was still alive. He reversed her goddamn death, hence I said she did not die. Don't even try to use that as an example of me being stupid.

The only thing I did not understand was whether or not this move was intended to be serious...because it is so cheesy and is topped off with what I think is a silly time travel sequence.

And I have said, repeatedly, that this was not the basis for my dislike. Whether they intended it to be serious does not matter to me because I do not find it a serious and dramatic movie regardless of what they say.

I have already clarified that i was talking about my opinions. I think mos is the only serious superman movie. I think what has come before has been too cheesy or stuck in Donner's universe.

Your absolute refusal to believe that my opinion can be anything other than stupidity just proves my point: it is not ok for someone to dislike this movie according to some.

 

[InJustice]

 

[MrsKent26]

I'm not saying you should have liked its execution...but I'm wondering if you would feel differently if you actually understood it better and saw why it wasn't as arbitrary as you're describing. Too late now, of course, but kinda' too bad.

I understood what they were trying to do. They did try to give the character reasons for doing these things. But it doesn't make it better. I wanted those character moments to come from limits within the universe. I wanted more of him dealing with realities like Lois dying and not just undoing it. I wanted defined limits for him that were similar to the comics and his reactions to them. I didn't want these extra solutions to pop up at any point in the film, whether they were forbidden or not.

 

[MrsKent26]

Did you....like the music at least...?

Yes. Great music.

Reeve was also right for the role of superman and did some great acting. He fit then and would fit now if he was alive and of the appropriate age to play the character.

 

[MrsKent26]

Do you get that he turned back time because she did die at first? And not to erase all the and stuff that had happened with the missiles and all ?

Yes. I get that. And that's another reason I don't like it.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Save for the main part of the main theme....I don't really like the music in STM....

 

[Mindreaper21]

It's ok MrsKent26, I don't like STM all that much either. You don't have to constantly defend your opinion. They either respect it or they don't. I actually think it would have been at least a bit more decent if Lois stayed dead. Sure, that will cause chaos, but I'll just ignore those that want to start a war.

 

[MrsKent26]

Well, if you don't like the story version, you just don't. I would think that even cheesier things have been done in the comics over the years, but alas. It's too bad, because at the time it was quite a spectacle and climax for the film. But what did we know? We were so primitive and impressionable back then.

I'm sure it was quite the spectacle and I don't fault people for still thinking it is. I have never denied the movie had a significant place in pop culture. It was the first of its kind and was loved by many. I don't think anyone who liked or likes it is uneducated. I don't think Donner was a complete hack and I get that he had a vision. I just didn't appreciate it much and as a result wasn't concerned about his thinking behind that vision. I feel that way about many movies.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Those were great. Love the old Batman Adventures comic. The word association bit is one of my favorite pieces out of any Batman story.

 

[MrsKent26]

For some...since we're talking hypothetically here of course...it's not about defending an opinion as much as trying to establish a common base of understanding, which can be affected by many things. If common understanding is reached and opinions are different, so be it. But if they're not, it can make conversation and debate rather aimless....and it just stays an ignore contest.


Hypothetically speaking.

That is exactly what it was about. I was able to reach common ground with you at least, despite differing opinions. So, that debate was somewhat fruitful. Hypothetically.

I also appreciate any others that didn't call me uneducated or think I'm up to some sort of sorcery.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Amazing panels. Where are these from?

 

[Lencho01]

Amazing panels. Where are these from?

Adventures of Superman #28.

 

[MrsKent26]

It's a digital comic that is better than all of the new 52 superman comics combined.

 

[MrsKent26]

Did I ever call you uneducated? I don't think I did...shame on me if I did.

No, no. Not talking about you! I was saying we reached common ground and had a civilized debate. That comment wasn't about you.

 

[DA_Champion]

I get that intent but it's one of those things I'm going to have to see implemented in the film to believe. Having a Batman that's been physically fighting crime for 10, 20+ years and yet no one knows of his existence outside of "legend" is a huge suspension of disbelief for me. It's like saying SWAT teams have existed since the 1990s but not enough people have seen them to make them believable.

Are you willing to believe in Men in Black in a movie? They're urban legends too.
What about government conspiracies in the X-Files? same idea.

 

[D.P.]

Are you willing to believe in Men in Black in a movie? They're urban legends too.
What about government conspiracies in the X-Files? same idea.

You could say the same of Bigfoot. Many people have claimed to see the creature for decades. Not hard to imagine, you just don't want to.