BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4

[DA_Champion]

In general, the more characters, the less coherent the narrative.

 

[herolee10]

Again, Snyder has a bit of madness to him so I'm betting that he's loving the pressure, loving the notion that he's shaping WB's DC cinematic universe for the foreseeable future.

The climax of Man of Steel is nothing compared to what we might get in this sequel...especially if Diana shows up in this thing.

If some of our theories are true that the threats in this film will be more Earth based than Alien oriented, I'm hoping for more character moments/interactions in this film, along with a mystery presented that'll require everyone to solve it...like how the Main antagonist (Lex) plans on going about his plans and what he's been responsible for, etc.

One thing is for sure, the trailers will blow everyone away (regardless of what the final film does.lol)

 

[herolee10]

In general, the more characters, the less coherent the narrative.

That really depends on how well the Director and Writer are able to manage their characters though. If they're capable or have a solid plan in mind, then it's possible to present all of these characters while having a very coherent narrative.

It's just a matter of time really in seeing as to whether Snyder can do that.

 

[DA_Champion]

There are rare exceptions to every rule. But the rule is very much that the more characters a movie has, the more plotlines it has, the less coherent it will be.

Compare Gravity to Star Trek into Darkness.
Compare Rush to Man of Steel.
Compare Justice League: The Animated Series to Superman: The Animated Series.

When you try and do everything, you typically end up doing nothing.

 

[herolee10]

Well, let's hope that we make that rare exception this time around.

 

[DA_Champion]

I'd rather hope they tell a focused story. No extra villains, no Wonder Woman, no Lex, etc.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ They can still tell a focused story with Lex and other villains. But they would have to be in the background and keep the focus on Clark/Lois/Bruce etc.

 

[herolee10]

Heck, if we get another female lead as well, especially if she's from Batman's side of the world, then this will really be a Versus movie in more ways than one because not only will Superman and Batman be battling in a way for prominence in this film, but so will their leading ladies.lol

I think Lex is pretty much a given at this point to appear in the film since I really doubt that they'll give us another Alien villain so soon after MOS and Lex is just about the best Earth villain that Superman has.

And knowing Snyder and Goyer, they'll definitely have one Earth based super villain as well in order to give Superman something to fight with.

"The Dark Knight", in my honest opinion, really focused on four major characters, which were Batman, Joker, Harvey, and Jim Gordon. That might be the case here, where it focuses on Superman, Batman, Lex, and Lois, while having other supporting characters to the mix.

 

[STARMAN]

I don't want Wonder Woman in this film. To me, less is more in this case. Focus on Superman and Batman. Focus on Clark, Lois, and Bruce Wayne.

 

[DChero]

I'm fine if Wonder Woman is hinted at or even introduced at the end, but I agree that making her one of the primary characters would take way too much screen time away from establishing the new plot and new Batman.

 

[roach]

That really depends on how well the Director and Writer are able to manage their characters though. If they're capable or have a solid plan in mind, then it's possible to present all of these characters while having a very coherent narrative.

It's just a matter of time really in seeing as to whether Snyder can do that.

Exactly. It's going to be dependent upon the writer and director. Look at Star Wars for instance....We had three main character...Luke, Han and Leia....they had three side kicks....Chewbacca, R2D2 and C3PO and Luke's mentor Obi-Wan...two villains...Darth Vader and Grand Moff Tarkin.
Thats about 9 characters and it's not a mess.

 

[mclay18]

One last META point... I still think the WB and DC need to avoid the mid/post-credits scenes as much as possible. I much prefer in-movie references and tie-ins as opposed to that post-credits crap...

Same here. It's bad enough that all the MCU films have them, but to have DCU do it...

I've gotten so tired of the post-credit fad. I wish it become a special treat like it had in the past prior to 2008, instead of something moviegoers expect after a big blockbuster.

 

[Crimson King]

I don't have a problem with mid-credits scenes (or post, but I prefer mid). I see them as an epilogue. For me, it adds to the experience.

 

[Krumm]

Same here. It's bad enough that all the MCU films have them, but to have DCU do it...

I've gotten so tired of the post-credit fad. I wish it become a special treat like it had in the past prior to 2008, instead of something moviegoers expect after a big blockbuster.

I only like them if they serve a purpose as in being a tease for a future film. When they are just a gag such as the Avengers and IM3, then you're just wasting my time.

 

[Crimson King]

I thought the shwarma scene was funny, but I agree about IM3. It would've been okay if there was another mid-credits scene to set up a future movie.

 

[Krumm]

I thought the shwarma scene was funny, but I agree about IM3. It would've been okay if there was another mid-credits scene to set up a future movie.

With IM3, the beauty of it was that Banner's feelings mirrored my own. I'm not sure that's what they intended.

 

[roach]

Same here. It's bad enough that all the MCU films have them, but to have DCU do it...

I've gotten so tired of the post-credit fad. I wish it become a special treat like it had in the past prior to 2008, instead of something moviegoers expect after a big blockbuster.

I hope that WB does what the Fast and Furious movies do...end the movie and right before the credits do your teaser.

 

[roach]

With IM3, the beauty of it was that Banner's feelings mirrored my own. I'm not sure that's what they intended.

I would have much rather there be nothing instead of that 'teaser'

 

[Loki882]

No, I like the post-credit teaser. Yet again, people are taking shots at Marvel for no reason. Anyways, having a lot of characters isn't necessarily a problem. The SW OT, the Nolan Bat-films, etc all had lots of characters. However, the worked because they were integrated well into the narrative. It's when they aren't that it becomes a problem.

 

[Mysteryman]

I don't have a problem with mid-credits scenes (or post, but I prefer mid). I see them as an epilogue. For me, it adds to the experience.

Agreed.
As long as it is well written, it is not a problem.

 

[Krumm]

No, I like the post-credit teaser. Yet again, people are taking shots at Marvel for no reason. Anyways, having a lot of characters isn't necessarily a problem. The SW OT, the Nolan Bat-films, etc all had lots of characters. However, the worked because they were integrated well into the narrative. It's when they aren't that it becomes a problem.

Not taking shots at Marvel for sake of taking shots -- some just work better than others. I'm a big fan of the ones included in IM1, IM2, Incredible Hulk, CA, and Thor. It's the throwaways I could do without.

As for having a lot of characters, it's really only a problem if the additional characters make more plot lines. There can be a ton of characters as long as they are integrated into few plot lines like the examples you mention. So I agree, it's not a character issue so much as it's a plot issue.

 

[mclay18]

I hope that WB does what the Fast and Furious movies do...end the movie and right before the credits do your teaser.

That's perfectly fine by me.

No, I like the post-credit teaser. Yet again, people are taking shots at Marvel for no reason.

Had the first Iron Man not done well, that post-credit scene with SLJ as Nick Fury would've been all for naught. I don't like it when producers count their chickens before they hatch.

Eventually, one of Marvel's films will strike out -- whether it's a follow-up to an established franchise or a potential one (like Ant-Man). Even though it's an established brand by now, they will have a miss -- it's only a matter of time. And that post-credit scene teasing the follow-up won't happen.

Wait for the movie to be a hit -- do the post-credit stuff for the sequel(s). Make the first movie a standalone pic so if it doesn't become a hit, it can stand on its own as a decent single film.

 

[Krumm]

That's perfectly fine by me.



Had the first Iron Man not done well, that post-credit scene with SLJ as Nick Fury would've been all for naught. I don't like it when producers count their chickens before they hatch.

Eventually, one of Marvel's films will strike out -- whether it's a follow-up to an established franchise or a potential one (like Ant-Man). Even though it's an established brand by now, they will have a miss -- it's only a matter of time. And that post-credit scene teasing the follow-up won't happen.

Wait for the movie to be a hit -- do the post-credit stuff for the sequel(s). Make the first movie a standalone pic so if it doesn't become a hit, it can stand on its own as a decent single film.

That's a good point but I have to give Marvel a lot of credit for celebrating and believing in their product. It's the reason we get good films -- they are unapologetic with their content. With DC, look no further than Green Lantern, which felt like compromise despite my surprising yet slight enjoyment of it.

 

[Crimson King]

That's perfectly fine by me.



Had the first Iron Man not done well, that post-credit scene with SLJ as Nick Fury would've been all for naught. I don't like it when producers count their chickens before they hatch.

Eventually, one of Marvel's films will strike out -- whether it's a follow-up to an established franchise or a potential one (like Ant-Man). Even though it's an established brand by now, they will have a miss -- it's only a matter of time. And that post-credit scene teasing the follow-up won't happen.

Wait for the movie to be a hit -- do the post-credit stuff for the sequel(s). Make the first movie a standalone pic so if it doesn't become a hit, it can stand on its own as a decent single film.

I'm not sure how a post-credit scene somehow diminished their intent to make IM1 a standalone movie. It was. All the stinger scene did was set up Marvel's plan for the future, which was great (IMO).

Not sure what your point is with the prediction about a Marvel failure. The stinger scenes usually allude to another franchise rather than a sequel to the movie you just watched.

 

[Loki882]

They weren't even sure that they were making Avengers when IM 1 came out since the didn't know if the film/character/actor would sell. The Fury cameo was a "just in case" type of deal. It wasn't until after TIH came out that they decided to actually make Avengers, hence the RDJ cameo. At least that's the way that I heard it.