BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

[Kane52630]

If anything it reminds me of when they had to use BTAS characters in Superman TAS for the Worlds Finest episode.

 

[Gee]

I didn't realize it was 56%...that's surprisingly bad. Personally, I gave the film a C to C- (probably around a 72), but 56 is pretty much an F....and I can't see how it was.

The % on RT is not the actual score of a movie. It's simply the percentage of critics that gave a positive (fresh) review. Its average rating is 6.2/10.

159 fresh reviews on a total of 285 reviews = 55.789%

If we look at Thor: TDW, it has 65% but the same average rating (6.2). More critics liked Thor, but still didn't get a better rating...

 

[Tra-El]

That is simply not true. This whole thing started as a reply to Marvin in the last thread, and I felt compelled to state my case after people decided to mock me...I couldn't care less what anyone thinks of MoS.



I respect everyone's opinion here and I myself thought it was a B-. It's just strange how everyone is so keen on attacking others here.

We're not attacking you. We're attacking the subject and post at hand. It's called debating. I know, crazy.

 

[hafizbat]

If WB thought MoS was such a bad movie in terms of bad quality (I can't even..) then why in all HELL would they include Batman, their most prized franchise character to date, in a sequel to a movie with bad quality, pretty much putting their most successful, billion-dollar, rebooted money-maker in jeopardy of destroying that property? Makes no sense.

If MoS is what you say, we would have got a total Bat-reboot for 2015. Instead, a totally new Bats is being introduced in Superman's franchise.

The proof is in the pudding. Batman isn't saving the day. WB is confident enough in the MoS franchise to introduce a new Batman so soon after one of the most successful trilogies of all time. Putting a new Batman in their MoS franchise speaks volumes in the confidence of the DCU set in Superman's universe.

Dude, I did not think it was that bad, and nowhere did I say that. My point was that it was a critical failure, which I said in response to the idea that MoS was a clear-cut success.

 

[Tra-El]

The % on RT is not the actual score of a movie. It's simply the percentage of critics that gave a positive (fresh) review. Its average rating is 6.2/10.

159 fresh reviews on a total of 285 reviews = 55.789%

If we look at Thor: TDW, it has 65% but the same average rating (6.2). More critics liked Thor, but still didn't get a better rating...

 

[hafizbat]

Especially when others come off as trying to piss in their cheerios.

Not my intention. My apologies if I did.

 

[113]

Critics are extremely fickle:





And there are people that don't like TDK and hate Nolan's Batman:

[YT]yuokQPtbEt8[/YT]

What matters is that most people like MOS and TDKT, a minority of haters is not going to change the facts.

And lets not forget the infamous Blade Runner example. A film that's considered one of the greatest sci-fi films of all time was initially panned by critics. It's that fickleness which is why I stand by the reason MoS got a lot of hate from so many critics is because it wasn't the Donner/Reeve version. Most people went in expecting some similar interpretation of Supes and when they were presented with a different version of the character they balked. It has very little to do with the quality of the movie itself, and much more to do with people bringing in their own preconceived notions.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Dude, I did not think it was that bad, and nowhere did I say that. My point was that it was a critical failure, which I said in response to the idea that MoS was a clear-cut success.

Was Thor: The Dark World a clear cut success to you?

 

[Rowsdower!]

Regarding the RT thing...

Out of the Furnace holds a score of 52%. It is by far, one of the best movies of 2013 in my opinion. Stellar acting, story, direction, everything. How it doesn't have a 90+ score is beyond me. Now granted, I'm not saying critics are idiots and their opinions don't matter, but sometimes, I just don't understand what they want out of a movie and the RT score isn't always a barometer of a movie's quality.

Also, if ANY superhero movie ever deserved a rotten overall RT score, it's Thor: The Dark Turd. That movie was lousy.

 

[hafizbat]

Why didn't they put Batman in another GL film?

As for making cash...why are they making any of these movies to begin with?

Because throwing Batman into a Green Lantern film simply doesn't make sense? At least with Superman, there is history and precedent.

And Avengers saved the day for Captain America and Thor and Iron Man.

What? All three characters were well-received. Not sure I understand your point.

 

[Tra-El]

Dude, I did not think it was that bad, and nowhere did I say that. My point was that it was a critical failure, which I said in response to the idea that MoS was a clear-cut success.

My reply was basically in response to you claiming "Batman is going to save the day.." Not sure what you meant. Critics aren't going to score a better rating only because Batman is involved.

As for the overall finances, everybody is underestimating Superman in this whole ordeal and sequel. A total Bat reboot at this point wouldn't make a billion dollars as most people would be skeptical with Batfleck, a new actor, a new franchise, etc. Batman's inclusion is HUMONGOUS, but there ARE two parts to Worlds Finest, you know and MoS set that tone.

MoS wasn't perfect, but it did many things right to make it better the next time so by all means, I welcome the idea of making this sequel better. It's exciting to think about.

 

[InJustice]

You weren't around as the score kept getting smaller and smaller? It was all...

More like

 

[hafizbat]

Was Thor: The Dark World a clear cut success to you?

Not at all. I was extremely disappointed by it, and I really hope they can get their act together and make a good Thor 3. Definitely the weakest of the Phase 2 films and a lost opportunity for the character of Thor.

Not sure if you were trying to start something, but I actually like MoS a bit better than TDW. Shocking, I know,

 

[Fizicks]

Other than financially, how can MoS be considered a success? It was panned by the critics. A 56% RT score is nothing to be proud of...considering its lower than Spider-Man 3, X-men 3: The Last Stand, and Ang Lee's Hulk, which last time I checked, were considered massive flops...

Lets not forget that there are 26 comic book films rated higher including EVERY Marvel Studios film.

I honestly don't understand how people here consider it a success. It was terrible, but it made a lot of money. That doesn't make it a success, at least not to me.

Panned? Oh please. The critical reaction was mixed.

And as many others have said, the RT system is flawed. A more telling number is the average rating, which MOS got a 6.2. This is a higher average rating than Ang Lee's Hulk, Spider-man 3, and X-men Last Stand you mentioned. It is equal in average rating to Thor: Dark World, and actually has a higher rating from top critics than Thor: Dark World (5.4) and Iron Man 2 (5.9).

And as people have pointed out earlier, the tomatometer is actually not a very good sign of the film's quality, as it's essentially dumbed down to a pass/fail system. For example, critic can think the movie's okay and still give a "rotten" rating. Also, If you read some of the reviews, some critics gave the film a rotten rating for some extremely ludicrous reasons, such as "No fun costume change in a phone booth" or "a solid film, but not a solid Superman film". Seriously, how can you even take these reviews seriously? Many of the rotten reviews came from critics inability to take the film for what it is, instead of conforming to their preconceived notions.

 

[Lencho01]

More like

 

[jaymes_e06]

More like

Good old fashion American cartoon violence.

 

[Tra-El]

Regarding the RT thing...

Out of the Furnace holds a score of 52%. It is by far, one of the best movies of 2013 in my opinion. Stellar acting, story, direction, everything. How it doesn't have a 90+ score is beyond me. Now granted, I'm not saying critics are idiots and their opinions don't matter, but sometimes, I just don't understand what they want out of a movie and the RT score isn't always a barometer of a movie's quality.

NICE. My dad was apart of that. Koppel Steel, PA. My bro was an extra as well. My dad was a boss at the Steel Mill they filmed at and took over safety regulations for Bale. He said he was a maniac in learning and loved how the Mill worked and had to tell Bale to slow down. He said the way Bale went in and out of character was unbelievable.

My dad had a part with Bale, welcoming him back to the Mill after he got out of jail, but they didn't use the scene. They did use my dads name twice in the plot, however. "Roach."

Pretty cool to see my family involved in a movie starring Christian Bale. And yes, I loved the movie as well. Thought it was a sleeper. Not too many people speak highly of it, but me personally, I loved it.

 

[hafizbat]

What live-action movie was that? Because in comics and animation, Batman, Supes AND GL appear together quite often. Kinda' like the Avengers.


Hello...?

That's the Justice League. Are you really implying that GL and Batman have the same history and chemistry as Batman and Superman, The World's Finest? DC's two greatest icons?

By your logic, why hasn't there been a Batman/GL (only those two) animated film? Why haven't there been entire comic runs on just those two characters?

 

[Mikelus]

And just so you know, I thought it was pretty good. I saw it three times in theaters. I enjoyed it maybe as much as some of you here. But I do think people are in denial if they can't accept that it just wasn't well-received.

But sure, call me a troll and make fun of me because I'm not going to kiss up to MoS and make it something it was not...

And now he says MOS is pretty good!!

Imagine if he didn't like it, what would he say then... funny how someone that likes a movie, sound exactly like a hater, maybe is a new way of trolling.

 

[113]

Panned? Oh please. The critical reaction was mixed.

And as many others have said, the RT system is flawed. A more telling number is the average rating, which MOS got a 6.2. This is a higher average rating than Ang Lee's Hulk, Spider-man 3, and X-men Last Stand you mentioned. It is equal in average rating to Thor: Dark World, and actually has a higher rating from top critics than Thor: Dark World (5.4) and Iron Man 2 (5.9).

And as people have pointed out earlier, the tomatometer is actually not a very good sign of the film's quality, as it's essentially dumbed down to a pass/fail system. For example, critic can think the movie's okay and still give a "rotten" rating. Also, If you read some of the reviews, some critics gave the film a rotten rating for some extremely ludicrous reasons, such as "No fun costume change in a phone booth" or "a solid film, but not a solid Superman film". Seriously, how can you even take these reviews seriously? Many of the rotten reviews came from critics inability to take the film for what it is, instead of conforming to their preconceived notions.

This. I actually spent a lot of time (too much) reading a ton of the negative reviews for MoS when it came out and consistently I came across the critics lamenting the lack of a Donner/Reeve feel to the movie or other classic Superman tropes. Those preconceived notions obviously played heavily into how critics, and some of the GA, received the film.

Superman faced/faces an uphill battle because of the Reeve/Donner interpretation. For some people that's the only Superman they know and is the be-all, end-all. Some people can't let it go.

 

[snpklsdmbldr]

If you want a bad movie, Avatar The Last Airbender is an example.

 

[roach]

My dad had a part with Bale, welcoming him back to the Mill after he got out of jail, but they didn't use the scene. They did use my dads name twice in the plot, however. "Roach."

.

whoa I am not your pappy

 

[Rowsdower!]

NICE. My dad was apart of that. Koppel Steel, PA. My bro was an extra as well. My dad was a boss at the Steel Mill they filmed at and took over safety regulations for Bale. He said he was a maniac in learning and loved how the Mill worked and had to tell Bale to slow down. He said the way Bale went in and out of character was unbelievable.

My dad had a part with Bale, welcoming him back to the Mill after he got out of jail, but they didn't use the scene. They did use my dads name twice in the plot, however. "Roach."

Pretty cool to see my family involved in a movie starring Christian Bale. And yes, I loved the movie as well. Thought it was a sleeper. Not too many people speak highly of it, but me personally, I loved it.

Wow, really? That's awesome, dude. Shame he didn't get to appear in the film, but it was cool that they did include his name.

Yeah, the film really hit home for me in a lot of respects since I'm originally from the Pittsburgh area. I thought it was excellent. Shame not too many people saw it but maybe now that it's on Blu-Ray/DVD, it will gain some new life.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Now, now I don't think he is trolling. I've seen trolls in the Henry Cavill thread just today and he doesn't come off as a troll to me.

 

[The Batman]

I wish...just once...that people would complain about RT even if they gave their pet film a good score.

I know it'll never happen, but still...

And Implying that MOS is a Blade Runner/Empire Strikes Back situation is just as bad as saying MOS was an overall failure.