BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 9

[NoLaNitE007]

Off topic, but such a nice heartfelt story that I had to post a link for you all to take a peek.

It would have nice to see Bale or Affleck involved in this somehow.

Here comes BatKid!


http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24525047/san-francisco-transforms-into-gotham-make-5-year.html

 

[Skrilla31]

There is simply no evidence to suggest that WB are lacking planning or forward thinking. People are confusing the lack of announcements as some sort of indication that WB are dropping the ball.

I applaud your optimism but to me it's clear as day that there was no plan.

Every time I bring up this point people ignore it or try and push it to the side so I'll ask it again. If WB knew that Batman was going to be in the sequel, then WHY wasn't it hinted at in MOS. Tell me what they had to gain by leaving that half baked announcement for Comic Con and not letting it be known directly in MOS.

The Avengers team up at the end of the first Iron Man is what got the ball rolling in the first place. That's where everyone's appetite for an Avengers movie began.

If WB had known about the team up, you can best believe there would have been more than just a Wayne Enterprises satellite that maybe 1 out of every 100 people are even going to notice in the first place. There would have been either a teaser, or at least a MENTION of something having to do with Batman/Bruce/Gotham.

But there was nothing. And do you know why? Because WB had absolutely no idea what their next move was and were kinda hoping they could ride the wave of MOS before they ever had to worry about it.

 

[Nemeres]

He writes that Da Vinci show...

Hm, I haven't seen that. If it qualifies as lively and fun, I take back my comment, but if Man of Steel had spent a bit more time having fun with its characters and less drawing the upteenth Jesus Christ allegory, it could have had a better reception.

 

[NoLaNitE007]

I applaud your optimism but to me it's clear as day that there was no plan.

Every time I bring up this point people ignore it or try and push it to the side so I'll ask it again. If WB knew that Batman was going to be in the sequel, then WHY wasn't it hinted at in MOS. Tell me what they had to gain by leaving that half baked announcement for Comic Con and not letting it be known directly in MOS.

The Avengers team up at the end of the first Iron Man is what got the ball rolling in the first place. That's where everyone's appetite for an Avengers movie began.

If WB had known about the team up, you can best believe there would have been more than just a Wayne Enterprises satellite that maybe 1 out of every 100 people are even going to notice in the first place. There would have been either a teaser, or at least a MENTION of something having to do with Batman/Bruce/Gotham.

But there was nothing. And do you know why? Because WB had absolutely no idea what their next move was and were kinda hoping they could ride the wave of MOS before they ever had to worry about it.

I appreciate your skepticism. However, why does it matter that they didn't show more regarding Batman being in the next film with Superman in MOS?

To me, it is clear they were forming the plan while MOS was still in production. They probably decided what they wanted to do during the long post production process of MOS.

They figured announcing it as the SDCC would be the ideal time and it worked out brilliantly actually.

 

[Marvin]

I applaud your optimism but to me it's clear as day that there was no plan.

Every time I bring up this point people ignore it or try and push it to the side so I'll ask it again. If WB knew that Batman was going to be in the sequel, then WHY wasn't it hinted at in MOS. Tell me what they had to gain by leaving that half baked announcement for Comic Con and not letting it be known directly in MOS.

The Avengers team up at the end of the first Iron Man is what got the ball rolling in the first place. That's where everyone's appetite for an Avengers movie began.

If WB had known about the team up, you can best believe there would have been more than just a Wayne Enterprises satellite that maybe 1 out of every 100 people are even going to notice in the first place. There would have been either a teaser, or at least a MENTION of something having to do with Batman/Bruce/Gotham.

But there was nothing. And do you know why? Because WB had absolutely no idea what their next move was and were kinda hoping they could ride the wave of MOS before they ever had to worry about it.

At first I was going to respond to this differently and in the obvious way(who needs it), then I noticed you placed the answer to your very own question in the body.

It may not have been a post credit scene(that would have been great for the trolls that already accuse them of copying), but that doesn't seem to be the type of film tradition Snyder/Nolan are about. But yes, there is a wayne satellite, not a luthor one, which would have been the obvious choice.

Kinda like a cap sheild, a thor hammer...Would it have been more clear if it was a batarang?

 

[NoLaNitE007]

Hm, I haven't seen that. If it qualifies as lively and fun, I take back my comment, but if Man of Steel had spent a bit more time having fun with its characters and less drawing the upteenth Jesus Christ allegory, it could have had a better reception.

"Fun"...like you mean more cheesy one liners? So cheesy one liners equal better reception and reviews from the critics? Well, I'm sure we will see more of that fluff in the next film. I'm expecting it more during the Lois and Clark scenes.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Won't happen. One (or both) of these characters is going to get shortchanged somewhere (unless it's a 4 hour movie). Unfortunate, but them's the politics of the need to continue developing one iconic, lead character (and they DO need to continue developing Clark), whilst simultaneously introducing a brand new, iconic, lead character in the same film.

It's like trying to shoehorn 3 fully developed villains into one film (SM3). There is no "if done right" in that case, because due to time constraints, one, or all of these characters will be shortchanged, no matter the facility/skill level of the director/writer.

Really wish they would have done a solo bat film before going through with this mess.

You're gloomier than the Bat.

 

[TheBat812]

At first I was going to respond to this differently and in the obvious way(who needs it), then I noticed you placed the answer to your very own question in the body.

It may not have been a post credit scene(that would have been great for the trolls that already accuse them of copying), but that doesn't seem to be the type of film tradition Snyder/Nolan are about. But yes, there is a wayne satellite, not a luthor one, which would have been the obvious choice.

Kinda like a cap sheild, a thor hammer...Would it have been more clear if it was a batarang?

I wonder if the drone at the end was a Wayne enterprises drone...

But I agree, they wanted a film that stands on its own, so little hints that the worlds were connected were warranted, but a marvel style at at tie in was not.

 

[Marvin]

Hm, I haven't seen that. If it qualifies as lively and fun, I take back my comment, but if Man of Steel had spent a bit more time having fun with its characters and less drawing the upteenth Jesus Christ allegory, it could have had a better reception.

It could be argued that TDK or rather Batman Begins could have had a better reception with major changes. I suppose it comes down to what they wanted.
That's neither here or there.

Goyer can write in all sorts of tonal paradigms. I figure the question if whether he can do so in a good manner.

 

[Nemeres]

"Fun"...like you mean more cheesy one liners? So cheesy one liners equal better reception and reviews from the critics? Well, I'm sure we will see more of that fluff in the next film. I'm expecting it more during the Lois and Clark scenes.

No, by 'fun' I don't mean cheesy one-liners. By 'fun' I mean 'fun'.

 

[Marvin]

I honestly can't think of any reason why batman wouldn't send his own military grade drones over his city, it's different(uh oh) but it's hardly a character inaccurate in anyway imo. Just sucks the comics didn't do it first cause now the 'burden of proof' falls on Snyder.

If this RUMOR is true, I hope it says something about our modern times, drones are always an interesting topic.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I honestly can't think of any reason why batman wouldn't send his own military grade drones over his city, it's different(uh oh) but it's hardly a character inaccurate in anyway imo. Just sucks the comics didn't do it first cause now the 'burden of proof' falls on Snyder.

If this RUMOR is true, I hope it says something about our modern times, drones are always an interesting topic.

the comics did do it first. In Kingdom Come

 

[DocHoliday]

I honestly can't think of any reason why batman wouldn't send his own military grade drones over his city, it's different(uh oh) but it's hardly a character inaccurate in anyway imo. Just sucks the comics didn't do it first cause now the 'burden of proof' falls on Snyder.

If this RUMOR is true, I hope it says something about our modern times, drones are always an interesting topic.

Also it does give him a bit of firepower in the fight with Supes, perhaps. I think Batman would utilize drones but not with anything remotely lethal which is kinda what makes drones topical.

 

[green]

Off topic, but such a nice heartfelt story that I had to post a link for you all to take a peek.

It would have nice to see Bale or Affleck involved in this somehow.

Here comes BatKid!


http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24525047/san-francisco-transforms-into-gotham-make-5-year.html

I was going to post about this today too!
Such an awesome heart warming story.

 

[Vid Electricz]

I honestly can't think of any reason why batman wouldn't send his own military grade drones over his city, it's different(uh oh) but it's hardly a character inaccurate in anyway imo. Just sucks the comics didn't do it first cause now the 'burden of proof' falls on Snyder.

If this RUMOR is true, I hope it says something about our modern times, drones are always an interesting topic.

Personally, I'm a bit tired of the overwrought political commentary in superhero/action films. It almost always comes off as either an aftethought or completely heavy-handed (sometimes both) 9-11 allegories abound in Star Trek into Darkness and MOS, both of which felt tacked on and tasteless.

I'm not clear on what light exactly, Batman with drones patrolling the city would shed/say about our "modern times". I don't see this as a particularly clever, subtle or insightful commentary, but that's just me.

 

[RAE072]

the comics did do it first. In Kingdom Come

When he was like 60 years old with a completely broken body.

I very much doubt we're getting that kind of Batman in this movie, with Ben Affleck playing him.

 

[Marvin]

Personally, I'm a bit tired of the overwrought political commentary in superhero/action films. It almost always comes off as either an aftethought or completely heavy-handed (sometimes both) 9-11 allegories abound in Star Trek into Darkness and MOS, both of which felt tacked on and tasteless.

I'm not clear on what light exactly, Batman with drones patrolling the city would shed/say about our "modern times". I don't see this as a particularly clever, subtle or insightful commentary, but that's just me.

You don't see what as insightful? The topic?
You'd be better off judging the execution...after the fact even.

Moreover TDK was celebrated in bringing such a commentary to the material. Seems to be a good fit for batman. Ironman 1 wasn't bad in this either.

Not sure what MOS attempted in the matter?

 

[Marvin]

the comics did do it first. In Kingdom Come

Those funky robots seen in 2 panels? I suppose that qualifies.
Still, there was something to be said for batman's broken body leading to those specific measures. I would hope this concept would imply an able batman simply chooses use drones cause he's "about that life."

That's definitely the kind of batman that would have an 'issue' with the alien god.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

2 big pieces of news in one day?! Hearing very interesting #StarWarsVII casting..

Can't wait for #BatmanvsSuperman.. #batfleck semi-retired/not speaking to Robin anymore.. Controlling drones from the batcave.

https://twitter.com/DAlter007

I have no idea wut's going on here. Why he's saying what he's saying about anything. Is this guy just shooting off on the twitter or what.

 

[Vid Electricz]

You don't see what as insightful? The topic?
You'd be better off judging the execution...after the fact even.

Yes, that's why I said: I don't see making parallels or allegories using drones as particularly insightful or interesting.

Of course, I'd have to see the final product before judging, but as I said, I'm a bit tired of the political undertones/overtones/commentary what-have-you (Especially when they're not deftly handled).

Moreover TDK was celebrated in bringing such a commentary to the material. Seems to be a good fit for batman. Ironman 1 wasn't bad in this either.

That's why I said almost always.

Not sure what MOS attempted in the matter?

The sight of buildings collapsing into clouds of dust is a fair bit of loaded imagery in a post 9-11 culture.

 

[TheQuestion]

I applaud your optimism but to me it's clear as day that there was no plan.

Until you are sitting in a WB board meeting, nothing will be clear as day.

MOS did exactly what it set out to do. It re-invented Superman and set a deliberate tone. They then set out to make the best film they possibly could have with it in mind that, if successful, it would lead to a wider DC universe. There are plenty of easter eggs throughout the film suggesting a wider universe. It may not be as blatant as Marvel but they are there.

 

[John-An]

Awesome! The language is so fascinating. There is a lot more included in there than I thought there'd be.

Yeah there's pretty cool info there t:

 

[John-An]

I know that what's done is done, but the legendary Superman/Batman chemistry, in the hands of a quirky, smart writer like Whedon or Edgar Wright... sigh, it could be something else. Not just the somber, ideological implications of the relationship, but also the personalities themselves, and the fun that's to be had by juxtaposing them. I don't think Goyer can write a lively, "fun" script with a gun to his head. I hope he lightens up and delivers MORE than what people expect. Look at the imagination and creativity that relationships like Tony/Banner in Avengers spark in audiences, or Thor/Loki, Ironman/Cap, Black Widow/Hawkeye... it engages people, it leads them to produce fanart, write fanfiction, imagine new scenarios. Supes and Bats lend themselves to that soooo much, and I hope they exploit it.

I just don't want a copy of the Avengers this is Superman/Batman not Cap/Tony Stark or Bruce/tony... their personalities are way too different..
Let's have some variety..

 

[John-An]

Also it does give him a bit of firepower in the fight with Supes, perhaps. I think Batman would utilize drones but not with anything remotely lethal which is kinda what makes drones topical.

As personal guards for the Batcave? or spy-mode?

Those funky robots seen in 2 panels? I suppose that qualifies.
Still, there was something to be said for batman's broken body leading to those specific measures. I would hope this concept would imply an able batman simply chooses use drones cause he's "about that life."

That's definitely the kind of batman that would have an 'issue' with the alien god.

Interesting...

 

[Marvin]

Yes, that's why I said: I don't see making parallels or allegories using drones as particularly insightful or interesting.

Of course, I'd have to see the final product before judging, but as I said, I'm a bit tired of the political undertones/overtones/commentary what-have-you (Especially when they're not deftly handled).

Indeed.

That's why I said almost always.

I guess that's why you also pointed to only two examples.

The sight of buildings collapsing into clouds of dust is a fair bit of loaded imagery in a post 9-11 culture.

This is what you consider a failed commentary?
Collapsing buildings and in a "911 culture"

Watchmen and 300, I'd get that. This film literally has superman/doomsday/darkseid as bruce timm has similarly presented and it's a failed commentary.