All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Blitzkrieg]

https://***********/ScottMendelson/status/872827028570914819

Scott Mendelson
@ScottMendelson

#WonderWoman is even better the second time, but it is still some nips and tucks away from being a genre classic. The whole 2nd act is gold.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

Citing CGI as a "flaw" is disingenuous, as the best companies that do CGI work are ILM and Weta, and they have tremendous amount already, with ILM busy with Disney's properties like Star Wars and Marvel movies as the company is owned by Disney.

Weta has many big movie projects lined up and they are not available, so DC has to hire other Vfx companies and they do their best, sometimes it is not at par with ILM and Wta, what can you do about it ?

Again, I fail to see how is that considered as a "flaw".

I tend to agree. Every sfx-reliant film these days uses cgi and so far I've yet to see one that didn't have problems here and there. Yes, if it's egregiously cheap, I can understand, but the cgi in WW was as good as anything I've seen in recent films.

 

[regwec]

Eh, just because they are forced to use lesser VFX studios, doesn't mean the CGI suddenly isn't inferior. A flaw you can't avoid including is still a flaw.

In the same way that you or I are flawed for not being billionaires, I suppose.

 

[harlequinade]

https://***********/SizzlerKistler/status/873160140932882433

 

[Bagide]

https://***********/SizzlerKistler/status/873160140932882433

The comments

 

[Dark Raven]

Wonder Woman is More Like a Disney Princess Story Than a Superhero Movie, And That's a Good Thing

http://www.slashfilm.com/wonder-woman-spoiler-review/

 

[Blitzkrieg]

http://dccomicsmovie.com/patty-jenkins-confirms-how-much-influence-zack-snyder-had-on-wonder-woman/

Wonder Woman director Patty Jenkins is currently doing a Ask Me Anything on Reddit and among many of the questions, Jenkins was asked on how much influence did Zack Snyder and Geoff John’s have on the movie.

Jenkins went on to confirm that Snyder helped with the origin story, but she worked super closely with Johns on the story and script, which was written by Allan Heinberg and goes on to say creatively Warner Bros. gave her the reins.

I think Zack mostly had an influence in getting things back in order to be a good origin story, and then Geoff and I worked super closely to work on the script and the story and Zack was a great producer, but creatively they gave me the reins.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

 

[Flemm]

I hope everyone who says that "it's good despite having some flaws" doesn't forget that phrase when talking about any other movie. Lawd.

I think that when a movie's strengths are very strong, its flaws tend to get minimized over time.

Which is natural, since essentially everything has flaws. It's the strengths that matter, in terms of long-term perception and impact on the popular consciousness.

With something like Iron Man, it's the cave sequence, RDJ's charismatic performance and the excellent chemistry with Paltrow as Potts. The film is not that great in other areas, but that doesn't really matter in the long run.

This movie has Gadot as WW, and she has great chemistry with Pine. Then there is the 2nd act, which I think is the most emotionally impactful set of scenes of any movie in the genre.

So I think that is what will be retained. The 3rd act has some good emotional resonance, but it's more what I would expect from a film of this type.

The main weaknesses are perfunctory villains and a 3rd act that is a little choppy, especially the first time you see it.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I hope everyone who says that "it's good despite having some flaws" doesn't forget that phrase when talking about any other movie. Lawd.

Quoted for truth. It is a seemingly very selectively applied rule of thumb online.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Quoted for truth. It is a seemingly very selectively applied rule of thumb online.

 

[X Knight]

just got back from seeing this.

as someone who is not that familiar with WW's whole mythos and universe ( other than basic general knowledge - but even that's more superficial ), I really enjoyed it!

It definitely made me a fan of the character and got me interested in her.

And, I believe it was the film that the DCEU sorely needed.

In fact, much like how Iron Man kickstarted the MCU, I feel WW should have been the first film that kickstarted the DCEU, not MOS and certainly not BvS.

Free from the baggage of prior cinematic interpretations of the character, WW succeeded where the other 2 ( especially BvS ) fell short.

WW had heart. You got the sense that Diana had compassion and empathy towards humanity. She cared about what was going on around her and was driven by a need to help others, even if it was initially more naively idealistic. But it was that very naive innocence and idealism that gave WW heart.

which should also apply to Superman. But that's where I felt MOS fell short. With the DCEU Superman, you never quite got that connection to humanity. There was always this sense of "outsider detachment" or "aloofness" with the character. And that came about because Snyder and co wanted to emphasize the "alien" aspect of the character, and thus made him feel alienated from the world.

But that misses the point of the character, imo. Because even though Superman is an alien from another world, Clark Kent is very much human due to being raised by the Kents in Smallville, KS. An upbringing that instilled morals and values and kindness and compassion and a sense of justice and right and wrong. And it is those qualities that make Superman the best, the ideal we strive towards, not his powers.

 

[Dark Raven]

 

[X Knight]

what I also appreciated was that the film celebrated "girl power" and powerful women but it didn't beat you over the ******* head with overt feminist political agenda.

unlike, say, cough......Supergirl.....cough.

 

[BestGirl]

^Agent Carter could be bad about that, too.

 

[flickchick85]

S1 of Supergirl waaaay OTT with that stuff, but I didn't think it was nearly as bad about it in S2. I adored Agent Carter, but I agree it would occasionally go overboard with it too.

But yes, Wonder Woman handled its "girl power" perfectly, imo.

 

[AnneFan]

It's definitely even better the second time around. I think it has the feel of Superman (1978), and honestly, Gal takes charge of the character in a similar way Christopher Reeve did for Superman.

 

[flickchick85]

Agreed. On second viewing I really appreciated the dialogue more, and how it re-enforced the overall themes. I think it's actually one of the tighter screenplays for a CBM, at least when it comes to origin films. And yes, the friend I saw it with the 2nd time around immediately said it reminded him of Superman: The Movie, both in its story structure and general spirit.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

S1 of Supergirl waaaay OTT with that stuff, but I didn't think it was nearly as bad about it in S2. I adored Agent Carter, but I agree it would occasionally go overboard with it too.

But yes, Wonder Woman handled its "girl power" perfectly, imo.

Spoiler

The thing is-Wonder Woman doesn't need Steve to save her. She needs him to create a reason to believe in mankind. That's what makes his final sacrifice powerful. He's showing what mankind can truly be-demythologizing, for lack of a better word, man.

 

[Dark Raven]

Just watched the 2009 animated WW movie again. Well, i fast forwarded through a lot of it. I'm glad Patty Jenkins didn't follow that or use it as a template. I don't think it compares at all to the film she made. While it has some moments, it pales in comparison.

The characterisation of WW is no way as good as Gal's portrayal and WW is too aloof and acts a little too tough as if she doesn't need anyone. It's exactly as Jenkins said that women heroes are often written as if they're too tough and self sufficient. And Steve Trevor is far too much of a womanizer. I don't like Nathan Fillion's portrayal compared to Chris Pine's. Pine seems more honourable. Fillion just seems like Richard Castle. Diana and Steve's relationship wasn't so great either.

And the plot wasn't really all that interesting. It certainly didn't have any of the charm of the 2017 film. And the end battle was more overblown compared to the live action version.

The only good things it had was it showed more of Amazon life and it had the contest. But other than that it was inferior in almost every way.

 

[macphisto96]

Even better the third time through.

There are a lot of great little character moments from Antiope and Diana looking knowingly at eachother before some secret training, etc.

There's also a lot you can see with Thewlis and how he acts in London, moments like The Chief, Charlie, and Sameer kneeling together. Just so many touches and really everything is explained without a lot of exposition. Even the villains that many accuse of being very one dimensional have a lot more depth when you listen to them and pay attention to how they are portrayed, from little touches like Ludendorf brushing Dr. Poison's mask and Ludendorf's comments on war and how it is essential for human progress.

The film addresses inequalities in many ways yet never beats you over the head. It portrays an imperfect world and therein lies the conflict.

The script is very tightly written and all the little flourishes are brought out by Patty Jenkins' excellent direction and the skills of all the actors involved, Gadot being chief among them. It's amazing how much many doubted her abilities, yet her performance becomes all the more stirring with each viewing. I would agree with any that would argue that we've not seen such a natural fit since Christopher Reeve. Gadot presents a Wonder Woman that is everything the world needs.

I'm just amazed at how my enjoyment for it increases with each viewing as does my appreciation for all involved. It has great action, it makes you laugh, it tugs at your heartstrings.

That's why it is doing so well and may have some terrific legs. There's something for everyone, but each aspect is so natural that nothing is forced and just about anyone can find magic whether it is at the beginning or as they dance in the snow or at the end.

I find the film pretty near perfect for what it is and what it seeks to do. I was hoping for a good film and got a great one IMHO.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I completely agree DR. In most ways Hippolyta and Ares had the most developed arcs. In the live action it was very much centered on Diana and Steve.

 

[macphisto96]

Spoiler

The thing is-Wonder Woman doesn't need Steve to save her. She needs him to create a reason to believe in mankind. That's what makes his final sacrifice powerful. He's showing what mankind can truly be-demythologizing, for lack of a better word, man.

Spoiler

I think it's also worth noting how easy it would have been to take the easy way out and not have a key character that everyone would like die. But the sacrifice was so important to the story and really put on display what love truly is - action and decision. Most comic films take the easy way out. We knew the whole time that Steve Rogers wasn't making any sacrifice other than not seeing Peggy again in that time. Yondu's sacrifice in GOTG2 could be there, but that was also very contrived. Trevor's was a natural growth of the story and the threat was real to thousands upon thousands of people that he mostly did not know since the plane was targeting London. Diana perceived the light and darkness in each man and Steve chose to sacrifice to help the light defeat the darkness. It had meaning and was not diminished - and it is why Diana believes and returning the picture has reminded her of her own purpose.

 

[Boom]

It keeps getting better with each viewing.

 

[-Arya-]

It keeps getting better with each viewing.

Totally. This film will be considered a classic alongside Batman Begins and Superman. Each member of the Trinity finally has an excellent film to back them up.