All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - Part 8

Discussion in 'Wonder Woman' started by Thread Manager, Apr 8, 2016.

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  1. OutOfBoose #ReleaseTheAyerCut

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    I wouldn't go as far as saying she knows he's Batman, but we can't rule that out. But it did look like she knows something.
    How does it make more sense, than connecting it to BvS?
     
  2. KillerWolf Possibly partially drunk

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    That one is the Paris photo from 2012. It might be shot in New York, but it stood for Paris. It even says "Taxi Parisien" on the car.

    I wonder if they'll ever explain it.

    Well, in the limited time of the film's narrative... we have Themyscira section, with probable prelude set in ancient times, then early 20th century of Europe in war and in the end modern age. Now, this film already slides back into the past after three DC films that follow the chronological order and is the last one before a big conclusion those films were leading up to, namely, "Justice League". With all this in mind, setting the modern age in the past as well, before the occurrences from the second film... it seems convoluted and very unlikely to me.

    If I was writing it, with JL being set up like this, I'd definitely avoid going into three different periods set in past unless there's a really important reason that justifies such storytelling. So, this scene being set just before JL, seems more likely to me.
     
    #952 KillerWolf, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  3. OutOfBoose #ReleaseTheAyerCut

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    That's what they should explain in the end of WW. Because it's the only missing piece. There's zero reason for wasting time of WW solo on connection to JL. It was done in BvS.
    Justice League has little to do with Wondy's solo. The film should be dedicated to telling her story before the events of BvS.
    There's nothing convoluted about it. Setting three films of X-Men in present day and then making "First Class" didn't confuse people. The only thing they need to show - how the photo about her adventures in early 20th century ended up in Lex's possession. And what she knows about Bruce Wayne.
    They don't need any important reason for that.
     
  4. brandeezy89 Registered

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    Paris according to the license plates from the set
     
  5. KillerWolf Possibly partially drunk

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    I am inclined to agree with the first part. Not so much with the second one.

    While I am also of mind that WW should be as standalone film as possible, it is still a part of the greater universe and is the film that directly precedes this universe's point of culmination. So, I wouldn't say that it has little to do with JL at all.

    You are confusing different timelines of films set in the same universe with different timelines in the same film. There's a world of difference.

    Jumping through different timelines in one story? You always need a good reason to do so.
     
  6. jfurioso Mistake to be avoided

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    I remember when the CGI revolution started it was all about doing things that could not be done physically and it was supposed to make special effects easier and cheaper to do.
    But the cheaper part never happened, really.
    I think it has bred a kind of laziness to avoid finding out solutions through practical effects.
     
  7. OutOfBoose #ReleaseTheAyerCut

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    What does her origin story have to do with JL? Reason for creation of JL is explained in BvS. Wonder Woman solo is about entirely different thing.
    It's not about being stand-alone. It's about filling the missing plot. BvS did the connection. WW doesn't need to do it.
    Little difference. It still deals with the same subject. First Class had different timelines within the film. Young Magneto and Xavier, adult and old. Everything withing the same film. And part of the larger universe.
    How about - to tell her story from her birth to the present day?
     
  8. I SEE SPIDEY Registered

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    It's funny how much that cheaper thing didn't happen, like at all.

    I'm fine with CGI and I usually don't whine about it unless I really dislike it but I can't lie, my preference is for more practical than say a Zack Snyder film. I rarely complain though because I don't hate the tons of CGI thing at all.
     
    #958 I SEE SPIDEY, Apr 28, 2016
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  9. KillerWolf Possibly partially drunk

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    What does it have to do with Bruce Wayne? This scene will obviously be tied to the greater universe, as there's a Wayne Ent. car there. It can either be set before BvS or after it, but in any way, it will be tied to the greater universe and its occurrences.

    It doesn't need to, of course, but between this scene having to do with JL and this scene having to do with BvS, I find the first more likely for reasons already mentioned.

    In the matter of subject, yes it is little difference. In the matter of overall execution, it is not. There is a limited time to tell a cohesive story in one film. And "First Class" had aforementioned important reasons to do so which justified such choice. Again, if WW has them as well, then it's more than fine.

    Of course. But I though it was clear that the scene is not "telling her story" in the pure sense within boundaries of her own film, as again, there is a Wayne Ent. car there.


    To summarize it - I think that if there is to be a scene set in the modern age that is tied to the greater universe, with her origin story (so, naturally, majority of film) already set in the past, it has to be a part of the film that moves the story (overall story, not WW one) forward. From these pics we see that there is such part of the film that it is tied to greater universe, as Wayne Ent. car shows. Hence the conclusions I drew.
     
    #959 KillerWolf, Apr 28, 2016
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  10. dhandler01 Half breed!

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    Yeah, assuming that scene makes it into the movie there is an obvious tie in to the greater universe which would make more sense to do with JL than it would with BvS.

    And tying WW to JL1 makes sense from the standpoint that they come out in the same year. BvS will have been done and gone for over a year and Suicide Squad will have come and gone as well...it doesnt have to be much but I think the purpose of the present day scene is to lead into Justice League.
     
  11. Micromind New World New Rules

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    Yup.
     
  12. I SEE SPIDEY Registered

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    I agree I imagine the end of the film will lead into Justice League somehow.
     
  13. OutOfBoose #ReleaseTheAyerCut

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    Stop for a moment with "greater universe" thing. Are we talking story of this universe or some pointless connection for the sake of connection? There's a missing plot piece regarding Wonder Woman in BvS. And there's no other place for that thing to be addressed, except for in WW solo film. It's a natural story progression. There's no need to tie WW to JL, because it's already there. By the end of BvS.
    Regarding Bruce Wayne... In BvS it looked like Diana recognized Bruce, she kept an eye on him on that party and stole his device. It definitely looked like she knows him. If they won't address that in WW solo, it will be a big mistake.
    If they're constructing one large narrative, they have to fill that missing plot piece. Again. There's zero reason to tie WW to JL. It's already tied by BvS. But they need to tie WW to BvS.
    So what? It's only an armored truck for, it seems, carrying valuable goods. Doesn't mean Bruce Wayne drives it personally. Doesn't mean he will be in the film at all. It can be just some kind of auction or whatever...
    Not necessarily, if the point of the film is to tell the story of WW prior events of BvS. They can add some post BvS scenes, of course. Though I don't think they're needed, except for abstract "moving the story forward". It's the story about the past. The story will be moved forward by SS and JLP1.
     
  14. KillerWolf Possibly partially drunk

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    I don't think it would be the pointless connection at all. I've been talking about the logic behind the narrative this whole time. A matter of fact, returning to that "important reason" I already mentioned, this scene continuing what was set up in BvS regarding the Justice League is much more important (and logical) to me than having the entire film be about Diana and her origin and then the story suddenly taking it out of all of that and jumping two or so years before BvS just to show how she learned about Bruce Wayne. Who the hell is Bruce Wayne to warrant this? It would feel like shoehorning the character just for the sake of it, more than anything. And I don't agree that not touching upon Diana seemingly recognizing Bruce in what was blink and you miss it two seconds would be a "big mistake" at all. Some explanation would be nice, but this is far from justifying the sudden jump to 2012 or 2013.

    Only thing that BvS set is that Bruce Wayne wants to find these metas. By the way Diana left with no word at the cemetery, it's clear that she didn't jump onto Bruce's idea to join him at that point. That's one thing this scene could be about - her deciding to help Bruce find the others... for example. And it would make sense with the main story or rather theme of WW solo... her deciding to be Wonder Woman again. It connects to the story perfectly.

    It's not really a plot piece. And it's not the only exposition that BvS misses, they didn't even show us how Clark knows Bruce's identity. While I agree that some exposition behind her apparently recognizing Bruce Wayne in BvS would be nice (and who knows, perhaps BvS Ultimate Cut will have it, along with other missing pieces), again it's not nearly as important as you're making it out to be. There's plenty of reason to tie WW to JL, first and foremost WW being the film that is set just before JL.

    Could be an Easter Egg, though I doubt it... anyway this was not the subject. We were discussing why this scene being connected to JL has more sense than being connected to BvS.

    But as others pointed out, BvS will be long gone and the overall story moves forward. It seems much more likely that they'll make a connection to the film that is going to come out very soon after WW than go out of their way to explain one short moment (which doesn't really need to be explained) from the film that is not even a previous one in the series, but the one before it.
     
    #964 KillerWolf, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
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    Same. That makes sense to me. I just hope it doesn't suffer from "set up syndrome" though. So far, it doesn't seem like it will. So that's good.
     
  16. dhandler01 Half breed!

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    [​IMG]

    Shoehorning Bruce Wayne pre-BvS into the story makes zero sense.

    And I dont think this will suffer from set up syndrome...they have put a lot of effort into showing the world and characters around Wonder Woman for that to happen.
     
  17. I SEE SPIDEY Registered

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    That's always a concern. I just want the vast majority focus to be on Wonder Woman's individual story because she's never had a film before.
     
  18. KillerWolf Possibly partially drunk

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    I think it'll probably be this one scene... maybe few more, but in any case, only a small amount of film's time will be dedicated to it, I'm pretty sure of it.
     
  19. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    I don't want Batman or Superman or anyone else in WW's movie. It's like those rumours that Marvel were going to put the likes of Black Panther, Dr Strange and others into Captain Marvel's movie.

    What kind of message does this send? That the studio in question is not confident in the movie at all, or in a female-led superhero film, and that it needs heavy support from the heroine's male counterparts.

    Wonder Woman should be allowed to stand on her own and tell her own story. She was the most interesting part of BvS, so let that thing shine out here and let audiences experience a whole movie with more of her.
     
  20. Sleiek Registered

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    I am not saying Batman should be an integral part of every DCEU story, just give me cameos or minor badassery.
     
  21. KillerWolf Possibly partially drunk

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    Listen, I am one of those that wanted WW to be as standalone as possible, "as possible" coming from the fact that it is still part of the shared universe, so I was aware that this was never a WW solo in the purest sense, given that it's a part of greater DCEU.

    What kind of message does it send? We don't even know what the scene is, nor whether Bruce Wayne will actually appear... they kept telling that these films are very interconnected, so I don't find this as a surprise at all. And, if it has to do with setting up JL, I'm completely fine with it. They started setting up subsequent films in BvS and with such a huge story on the horizon, it was expected they'd do it in WW solo.
     
  22. OutOfBoose #ReleaseTheAyerCut

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    The story jumps thousands of years before events of BvS. There's nothing wrong with the jump from 1920 to 2012. Because we need to know where Diana ended up being during Superman's appearance, meta-human research and what's the deal with the photo. I'm pretty sure there will be the moment when that photo is taken in her solo.

    They can go Saving Private Ryan route. Her remembering events from her past and then returning to the present to deliver an important moral. I'm not ruling that out. But I don't think it's needed. Diana explains, that she abandoned humanity because of the events in the past, so I don't see how flashback will change her opinion. DD already made her come out of shadows. She's just unsure if other meta-humans will join the fight. But when the new threat hits, I can't imagine better motivation...

    UC won't have it. Because the whole point of her depiction - mysterious woman, who's later exposed as an ancient warrior. Maybe there will be some small bit, that shows that Diana is an antiques dealer. Because the TC doesn't tell anything about her.

    Not necessarily to BvS. To the story of Lex and Bruce. The connection is the photo. Abandoning it is... I don't know. We also need to know why she's an antiques dealer...

    Diana's origin is also long gone, doesn't mean they shouldn't return to it. If you disagree that they should connect Diana's story to events of BvS... Fine by me. WW's connection to JL is already established. WW's connection to the present day - isn't.
     
    #972 OutOfBoose, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  23. dhandler01 Half breed!

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    Exactly. This idea that a cameo would send the wrong message is fanboy overreaction at its finest. If Batman or Superman do something more than that, if she needs their help in any way then sure it can be argued but if Batman shows up for 2 minutes as part of the set up for Justice League (and as a continuation of the plot thread with her from BvS) it will not denigrate Wonder Woman in any way.

    In fact, the idea that such a small thing could overshadow Wonder Woman is actually more denigrating. If just the mere presence of another character is enough to devalue Wonder Woman in her own movie than she doesnt deserve said movie. Fact is she wont be overshadowed.

    I know people are worried because this is her first movie and all that and I get it, but take a breathe Wonder Woman is going to kick ass with or without a cameo from Bruce Wayne and no male hero is going to take away from that...especially since the majority of the film takes place in WWI ;)
     
  24. John-An Wonder Fingers!

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    Is Wayne Enterprises logo or Wayne Financial?
     
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