Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfect?

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight Rises' started by MAKAVELI25, Nov 6, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JackWhite

    JackWhite Third Man

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,595
    Likes Received:
    0
    This too.

    Lack of a Gotham POV is more of an issue than the Joker not being mentioned.
     
    #726
  2. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Web Ninja

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    9,277
    Likes Received:
    4
    Foley isn't called Deputy Commissioner in the dialogue in the film, but it's pretty obvious he's the next highest ranking official to Gordon from his role in the movie.
     
    #727
  3. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,315
    Likes Received:
    1
    The pressence of Gotham and the people of Gotham was sorely missed in this movie.
     
    #728
  4. ShadowBoxer

    ShadowBoxer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,261
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree , another missing element to the movie was the Gotham city citizens pov.
     
    #729
  5. jmc

    jmc away for a while

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    32,290
    Likes Received:
    55
    That's an argument I've never bought. Foley's only interest is in himself throughout the entire movie, and besides he's a high ranking cop, he doesn't have the perspective of the regular people.
     
    #730
  6. AnneFan

    AnneFan Hathaway #1

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    22,051
    Likes Received:
    3
    Agreed.

    "I'm going to do what Jim Gordon couldn't".

    Foley wants the glory.
     
    #731
  7. Anno_Domini

    Anno_Domini Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    17,997
    Likes Received:
    0
    And they cry foul even when told that it was Nolan's decision to not even mention the name of Joker or give any reference to him because of Ledger's death, which, imo, should be very understandable.

    While it is very arguable that there isn't a Gotham POV, I feel that we had enough(which still wasn't really enough) that was necessary while trying to focus more on Bruce Wayne and tying up his story which is the main reason why Nolan even returned for a third film, to finish up Bruce's arc. We had some viewpoints from the main characters, the minor characters and even some others such as regular patrol officers, the priest and that one orphan. We had, imo, little reception of Batman's return and that, I feel, was fine. But when it comes to Dent's reveal? That's where I felt Gotham's POV was lacking the most.

    He isn't called Deputy Commissioner at all? Even if Foley is in a high-ranking position, if the title 'Deputy Commissioner' isn't even used than that's one complaint I don't have anymore as I never understood why that position is even given. I can just view Foley as a detective working under Gordon as we saw with Stephens, Ramirez and Wuertz in TDK.
     
    #732
  8. jmc

    jmc away for a while

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    32,290
    Likes Received:
    55
    Absolutely.
     
    #733
  9. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Web Ninja

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    9,277
    Likes Received:
    4
    It's not in the dialogue in the movie. It's in the old script and the virals. He's not some random detective, he is shown to have all of the same authority as Gordon, particularly when Gordon goes underground and is later hospitalized. My takeaway is not the same as those guys in TDK at all.
     
    #734
  10. Anno_Domini

    Anno_Domini Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    17,997
    Likes Received:
    0
    Stephens had fairly a great amount of power though once Gordon was believed to be dead, even ordering to turn the Bat signal on and to turn it off which I always thought was Gordon's shtick to do and only his.

    Since I was never into the virals though and if it's not in any dialogue on film, I will just picture Foley being a high ranking detective that worked closely with Gordon who would have just taken Gordon's place as Commissioner if he is ever fired or quit. Much better to think of as this way when I hate the title 'Deputy Commissioner' which wasn't even a position in BB or TDK. Gordon becomes Commissioner after Loeb dies, so obviously there wasn't such a position as DC in that film.
     
    #735
  11. Eros

    Eros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,735
    Likes Received:
    0
    Non mentioning a character because the actor died is silly, the best way to honor a man is to keep his memory alive, not act like he never existed. Playing the joker was ledgers finest work as an actor, besides his daughter was his legacy.Good people die everyday, hell every second, but you cant just let their work die with them. I respect his decision, but he missed an opportunity.
     
    #736
  12. BlueLightning

    BlueLightning Caballero de la Luz

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    His work didn't die, it was done in TDK. In any case, bringing the Joker on this film would'nt feel right. It isn't designed that way, he is just a character too big. The isn't needed for the story to tell. Besides, as Joker said, the effects of his actions are felt on the film.
     
    #737
  13. Doc Samson

    Doc Samson Superhero Psychiatrist

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    5,199
    Likes Received:
    0
    Honestly, the way Nolan's handled the Joker sort of elevates it to that ghostly, force of nature character he wanted. No (official) behind the scenes material on Ledger and his preparation, no relevant backstory or knowledge of where he came from in TDK, and no information on where he's at in TDKR. He came, caused destruction, and literally disappeared. Make no mistake though, almost every important plot element in TDKR has his DNA written all over it.
     
    #738
  14. The Guard

    The Guard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2002
    Messages:
    32,347
    Likes Received:
    10
    He gets obsessed with maintaining order and goes a bit nutso. Gets a bit too willing to go outside the law, ultimately gets a bit trigger-happy/militant.

    The scene from THE DARK KNIGHT where the hostages are dressed like clowns? That happens in NO MAN'S LAND, and Foley shoots several of them before he can be brought down.
     
    #739
  15. TheGuy

    TheGuy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's not his interest though, but his character that matters and what he presents to the film.(he does present something) During the first chase scene, Foley talks about his hate for Batman to Blake showing us a perspective of Gotham. His *****ey demeanor, as Happy Jack stated is indicative of the police's complacency as a result of 8 years of clean streets. This is backed up by the mayor ignoring the media questioning him about the cops going underground.

    Foley: "Who do you wanna catch? Some robber or this son of a b**** who killed Harvey Dent?"

    Gordon: "I want him found"
    Foley: "Yeah, the masked man"

    Mayor: "It's just a training exercise"

    I could go on. Nolan gave us few regular joes because they never mattered. The characters of the movie represented something of Gotham.
     
    #740
  16. jmc

    jmc away for a while

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    32,290
    Likes Received:
    55
    They should have mattered, the one film where their perspective was required is the one film without it. Foley doesn't represent anyone other than himself, he's a selfish coward looking to make a name for himself.
     
    #741
  17. Anno_Domini

    Anno_Domini Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    17,997
    Likes Received:
    0
    The memory of Ledger's Joker is alive...in The Dark Knight.

    How else could they continue with Ledger's joker in TDKR? Any line or reference of Joker would only feel like a throwaway line to just keep him mentioned in Nolan's Batuniverse and that would only bring down this epic legacy of Ledger's Joker, imo. Best to keep the legacy alive only in the film Heath Ledger is actually in. And plus, the audience still at least is aware of Joker's doing and what he has done to Bruce Wayne in TDKR.

    Hrm...yah, I couldn't see them doing that to Foley in TDKR, lol.
     
    #742
  18. BlueLightning

    BlueLightning Caballero de la Luz

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think this is because the different focus of the film. While The Dark Knight is an external exploration of Bruce Wayne and the consequences of his actions as Batman, Rises returns to the internal exploration that was present in Begins. The problem was that there was just too much story, and unlike in Begins, the point of view of the people is lacking. On the other hand, it serves a purpose in the film. The absence of people on the streets, the lack of a voice manage to convey that plausible fear that people in that kind of situation can have.
     
    #743
  19. Fudgie

    Fudgie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,197
    Likes Received:
    0
    Co-signed gents.

    That would have been so much more interesting than the annoying *****e Foley Modine played.
     
    #744
  20. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,315
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sounds interesting. I would have much preferred they would have taken this route with the Dark Knight himself. Having him mope around for an 8 year hiatus is so blah. Since Nolan had taken elements from The Dark Knight Returns, I wish he would have examined what made that book so popular in the first place. It would have been great to have seen Batman, 8 years older, maybe more broken down, but more determined, more bitter and paranoid. That kind of Batman is something that I could truly see Bruce having to escape and get out before it became all too consuming.
     
    #745
  21. Slushy

    Slushy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    8,803
    Likes Received:
    0
    Had the movie ended after the first Batman Vs. Bane fight, that would've been perfect.
     
    #746
  22. JackWhite

    JackWhite Third Man

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,595
    Likes Received:
    0
    After Foley's initial reaction to the bat symbol on the bridge, we could have easily got another 2-3 quick cuts of random Gothamites either in their homes or out in the streets looking up to it in disbelief while also feeling inspired. Really surprised we just got Foley's reaction.

    Another one is when Gordon is on trial at the Kangaroo court. We should have had more Gothamites yelling at Gordon in disgust over the Dent cover up, also throwing things at him would have really added to the tension.

    Just those two things add a lot to the weight of those scenes.
     
    #747
  23. Brain Damage

    Brain Damage Everything Under the Sun

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,861
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was honestly expecting a few cuts to other Gothamites when Foley's wife called him to the window and was surprised when we didn't get any.

    I hadn't thought about the spectators at Gordon's trial, but you bring up a good point, that would have made the scene more powerful. On that note, I'm disappointed the Dent cover up isn't brought up again after Blake reprimands Gordon for it. I know that that conversation is one of the things that leads to Blake abandoning the shackles of the rules, but I wanted to see more of a resolution with Gordon's arc about the cover up.
     
    #748
  24. JackWhite

    JackWhite Third Man

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,595
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's not like they don't tackle these things, but after TDK, I expected at least half of that in TDKR. Gordon does have to answer to the people for his involvement in the lie, but it's dealt with way too fast. When he was arrested by Barsad on the streets, I remember thinking "Oh no, there is no more running away from it now."
     
    #749
  25. TheBat812

    TheBat812 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    6,603
    Likes Received:
    0
    The only reason to show Gotham citizens more is the expectations set up by the first two films. On its own, TDKR did not need more citizen shots, there already are some weaved in there when needed, and never once was I wondering 'gee, I wonder how the people feel about this.' The answer was always conveyed in another, and frankly better, way.
     
    #750
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"