Amazon's Rings of Power - General Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

[Drizzle]

To be fair, Ian McKellen could narrate the daily life of a common housefly in real time and it would make compelling television.

 

[InCali]

Count me in the "this is moving too slow" crowd. I thought the first two episodes started strong but I'm beginning to lose interest. I don't mind a slow burn but that's generally when more experienced actors are involved. Not that anyone's really doing a bad job here but they're also not on the level of Cate Blanchett and Ian McKellen.

I'm in this boat also. At this point, it looks like the entire first season is leading to the big cliffhanger/reveal at the end of the season in order to leave us clamoring for S2. It's going way too slow and is disjointed, but I think I see how this story is going to come together. I don't mind (too much) that it is veering farther and farther away from the writings and characters (the elves souls are going to wither in the 2nd age unless they have mithril? Mithril contains the light of one of the Silmarils?? LOL). What I don't find particularly good is the pacing and breaking up of the story itself.

Durin, at this point, is by FAR the coolest character. The royal house of the Lords of Andunie has been relegated to a Sea Faring Captain and his idiot son, Isildur, and the father of Elendil, Amandil, is nowhere to be found. Galadriel is some headstrong fighter thousands of years after her birth instead of the ruler and Lady of Lorien. Gil-Galad is some fretting wimp instead of a great warrior......and so on.

Some shows are basically plot driven and some are more character driven. To me, this show seems to have a hard time deciding where to go and hasn't, thus far, done a very good job of either. The characters aren't particularly heroic or sympathetic and the plot is disjointed (but probably coming together) and is taking way too long to develop.

 

[Iceman]

The pacing has been a bit too slow but it does look like it's going to take a big step up from next episode.

 

[henzINNIT]

The pacing has been a bit too slow but it does look like it's going to take a big step up from next episode.

tbh I thought that at the end of last episode.

There's definitely a pacing problem with the show in my opinion. It's hard to put my finger on what exactly but it can feel too slow and like it is skipping bits at the same time. Not sure how this was written, the seperate arcs feel arbitrarily intercut or something.

 

[Iceman]

tbh I thought that at the end of last episode.

There's definitely a pacing problem with the show in my opinion. It's hard to put my finger on what exactly but it can feel too slow and like it is skipping bits at the same time. Not sure how this was written, the seperate arcs feel arbitrarily intercut or something.

It’s been too slow for the number of total episodes. Would be ok if it was 12 episodes, although still would need certain elements to be more engaging from the off, even if the overall plot moved slowly.

 

[Persona]

It's kind of like they have 4 different movies (the Galadriel movie, the Elrond/Durin movie, the Southlands movie, and the Harfoots movie) and they intercut those into an 8-episode season of television, haha.

It definitely presents some narrative structure and pacing issues. However, as these storylines start to converge it might have a pretty cool effect. Then again, I'm someone who loved the extreme delayed gratification of the Dougie Jones storyline in Twin Peaks: The Return, so I might be an easy mark for this kind of storytelling.

 

[Iceman]

It's kind of like they have 4 different movies (the Galadriel movie, the Elrond/Durin movie, the Southlands movie, and the Harfoots movie) and they intercut those into an 8-episode season of television, haha.

It definitely presents some narrative structure and pacing issues. However, as these storylines start to converge it might have a pretty cool effect. Then again, I'm someone who loved the extreme delayed gratification of the Dougie Jones storyline in Twin Peaks: The Return, so I might be an easy mark for this kind of storytelling.

I also think it’s going to feel that much better when these things do all come together. Hopefully this means future seasons won’t have this problem that comes with all these fresh introductions to many different groups.

 

[henzINNIT]

The mithril stuff is super confusing. I feel like Sauron has to be working this somehow behind the scenes. I'm not loving Gil-galad or Celebrimbor so far. Kinda hoping they're being duped cause I don't get them.

 

[Boom]

The mithril thing is really dumb. Not gonna lie.

 

[heatvision38]

The one storyline that confused me in the movies and they are playing into it in the series as well is the elves losing their grace. Was the story about the warrior elf and the Balrog in any of the books?

 

[Boom]

The one storyline that confused me in the movies and they are playing into it in the series as well is the elves losing their grace. Was the story about the warrior elf and the Balrog in any of the books?

Doesn't ring a bell to me at all. After the War of Wrath, balrogs aren't seen again in Middle-earth until the dwarves stumble upon one hibernating in Moria during the Third Age (Durin's Bane).

I'm also not aware of anything in the legendarium suggesting that mithril had anything to do with the Silmarils. One Silmaril was given to Earendil, another Simaril Maedhros took with him into a fiery chasm, and the last Silmaril was thrown into the sea by Maglor.

"We need mithril or we will lose the Valar's grace" is an extremely dumb plot device. And I've really been trying to just go with the flow with things.

 

[squeekness]

Doesn't ring a bell to me at all. After the War of Wrath, balrogs aren't seen again in Middle-earth until the dwarves stumble upon one hibernating in Moria during the Third Age (Durin's Bane).

I'm also not aware of anything in the legendarium suggesting that mithril had anything to do with the Silmarils. One Silmaril was given to Earendil, another Simaril Maedhros took with him into a fiery chasm, and the last Silmaril was thrown into the sea by Maglor.

"We need mithril or we will lose the Valar's grace" is an extremely dumb plot device. And I've really been trying to just go with the flow with things.

I was wondering about the Elves and Mithril as I don't recall it was being necessary for their survival. It did make me wonder about the jewel that Arwen gave Aragorn in the Fellowship movie and how Elrond worried Arwen would fade without it. It was never explained why it was such a big deal that she gave it away. Are they trying to explain that here?

 

[Boom]

I have no earthly clue. I see others theorizing that this is just a bull**** story being fed to Gil-galad and Elrond, and that something else is really going on. Not sure why two of the oldest and wisest Eldar would be so easily bamboozled, but that's still preferable to this being a genuine plot device.

 

[henzINNIT]

I have no earthly clue. I see others theorizing that this is just a bull**** story being fed to Gil-galad and Elrond, and that something else is really going on. Not sure why two of the oldest and wisest Eldar would be so easily bamboozled, but that's still preferable to this being a genuine plot device.

Yeah this is where I am with it pretty much. Easily my least favourite element in the show so far. I can deal changes to the source material but this mithril stuff seems convoluted and strange. The only way it fits in my head is if it is part of Sauron's scheming. Gil-galad and Elrond shouldn't be mislead so easily, but perhaps Celebrimbor has been and is the source that they trust. Who knows. I would like to finally see what Sauron is doing, but it seems like maybe an end of season reveal at best with Adar and everything.

 

[InCali]

The bottom line is that, even in the 2nd age, Elrond was a master of lore. The idea that not only he, and just about ever other Elf in Middle Earth, didn't know the exact fate of each and every Silmaril and that mithril somehow is tied up in the fate of the Elves are a couple of the biggest stretches in a script that has been stretched every which way. Interestingly enough, to me anyway, is that it doesn't bother me that much because I've come to terms with the fact that this is not a story about the 2nd age of ME. It's simply a show that reimagines the events put forward by the author. I can think of several other deviations just as off base, or more than, these.

What they appear to be doing is taking certain aspects of Tolkien's writings that proved popular or salient (Wizards, Silmarils, Hobbits, Balrogs, Mithril, etc.) and tried to give them an important place in the story for the sake of popularity and don't really care about the storyline of the author. Whether that pans out, remains to be seen.

 

[Kaleb]

Spoiler: Speculation

Honestly I'd hate it, but reading up on the events of the second age , it just seems like you could make a strong argument for Halbrand being (ie strong interest in being a black Smith) Sauron.What I'm more interested to know is why have we not been introduced to Annatar yet.

 

[Persona]

The mithril/Elves thing is very strange. I can't figure out why they would add it other than it being a misdirect or false hope. Elrond himself calling the tale "apocryphal" almost seems like a wink from the show.

Now, that said, we know one of the rings of power, Nenya, is made from mithril and Galadriel eventually uses its power (though the power doesn't have anything to do with the mithril from what we know) to create and sustain the realm of Lothlorien. So I can see the seeds of the idea that the show is going for but, similar to what they are doing with Pharazon, all is not as it seems, I think, and there will be further revelations.

Anyways, as it stands right now I am not a fan of this lore addition but I will see how it plays out. I liked most of the rest of episode 5 a good bit. The Galadriel/Halbrand/Numenor stuff was better than it has been, the Harfoots/Stranger stuff was great, still a lot to like with Elrond/Durin. I've been liking the Southlands stuff but I think the editing of that storyline was a bit off this episode, they could have tightened up the Bronwyn/Arondir dialogue a good bit. But every moment with Adar is still great.

I also felt like director Wayne Yip and his DP Morton did better work here than they did in the past two episodes, felt a bit closer to the high visual standard that Bayona and Faura set with the first two episodes.

Really wonderful music moments this episode, too. Poppy's song, Galadriel's sword school, any time the Numenor theme came in but especially that ending, whew.

 

[InCali]

I'm curious. Why do people dislike the idea that mithril is somehow tied to the well being of the Elves? It's no farther out of whack with the author's writings than a lot of other storylines so far.

 

[Boom]

I'm curious. Why do people dislike the idea that mithril is somehow tied to the well being of the Elves? It's no farther out of whack with the author's writings than a lot of other storylines so far.

It's just an incredibly contrived, unimaginative McGuffin that the show simply does not need. "The fate of the Elven race depends on this ore!"

It's a metal. Extremely rare and valuable, mind you, but a metal nonetheless. The stuff about it possessing the light of the Silmarils is hot nonsense, but at its root the whole thing is just a dumb idea.

 

[InCali]

It's just an incredibly contrived, unimaginative McGuffin that the show simply does not need. "The fate of the Elven race depends on this ore!"

It's a metal. Extremely rare and valuable, mind you, but a metal nonetheless. The stuff about it possessing the light of the Silmarils is hot nonsense, but at it's root the whole thing is just a dumb idea.

Oh, I totally agree, but they've already crossed that bridge with warrior Galadriel being imprisoned by the Numenoreans and a lot of other plot points. As far as I can tell, a lot (most??) of the plot is based on "Ooooohhhh.....hobbits and WIZARDS and, <fill in the blank>.

As far as unimaginative goes, I would have never thought of it in a million years.

I guess my take on it is that they've already crossed a bridge that can't be uncrossed given how they've set up Numenor and Middle Earth so if they go completely off the rails of the story, it's not that big of a deal.

 

[Persona]

For me it's way more of a questionable wait-and-see thing than some of the other changes, which do change the world and story as we know it from Tolkien to various degrees but don't necessarily have the same level of ripple effect on into the Third Age that this potentially does.

Like, I get why they compressed time events of the 2nd Age and already understand what they are trying to do there. I understand the appeal in having Galadriel, since she's the show's main character, go to Numenor and I don't have trouble imagining that that could have happened within Tolkien's world and history though he didn't write that it did. And I don't mind the show adding its own ideas and characters, it was always gonna have to do that with the 2nd Age being its subject.

The showrunners really know the lore. They really do, I've been plenty convinced of that. So, if this mithril story that Gil-Galad and Celebrimbor are buying turns out to be true, it's a very intentional lore break/addition but one where I really am not sure what the intent is. Now, yeah, maybe they are just doing it for stakes reasons, like the weird, unnecessary "Arwen is dying or something" in PJ's RotK (as if the stakes weren't already high enough in RotK). But it's also one of those things where if it turns out to be true, then I guess from this point forward Elves need to take mithril baths or something? It's just a very strange, out of left field idea and I am having trouble wrapping my head around the choice here.

If it's a tale within the show that turns out to be false or at the very least not what Celebrimbor and Gil-Galad expect, then it might make a lot more sense. I still might question why even introduce the idea then, but like I said I will have to see what the show does with it. At the moment they used it for some dramatic friction but it's ostensibly going to be a major plot point, so I have to believe there is more to it than just drumming up some tensions for Elrond in S1:E5. It makes a ton of sense if it's a lie or manipulation from Annatar, particularly over Celebrimbor and then Celebrimbor is swaying Gil-Galad, but that's probably the best case scenario and I might be hoping for too much to think it's that.

 

[Iceman]

The mithril thing seems a bit silly to me, but regardless I totally love Durin and he makes Elrond that much better too. Great relationship the two have.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

I am still firmly onboard with this show, but I am really hoping the second half of this season has a much better structure and pacing because these last two episodes haven't done much for me at all.

If it wasn't for the few scenes that we got with Durin, Elrond and some of the stuff with the Harfoots this first half probably would have been a chore to get through IMO but maybe that's just me.

I'm glad that things are at least starting to come together though.

 

[Persona]

The mithril thing seems a bit silly to me, but regardless I totally love Durin and he makes Elrond that much better too. Great relationship the two have.

Yeah, once I get around my Tolkien head cognitive dissonance about the mithril stuff, the Elrond/Durin storyline keeps giving. Wonderful interactions (and Durin's interactions with the other Elves were great, too, the table thing was hilarious).

And if I put aside that a desperate Gil-Galad was trying to get Elrond to break his oath, I did really love the conversation that they had by the Tree of Lindon about hope. Especially how it ended with Elrond looking at the stars and that cutting to the statue of Earendil in Numenor. *chef's kiss*

 

[Persona]

I am still firmly onboard with this show, but I am really hoping the second half of this season has a much better structure and pacing because these last two episodes haven't done much for me at all.

If it wasn't for the few scenes that we got with Durin, Elrond and some of the stuff with the Harfoots this first half probably would have been a chore to get through IMO but maybe that's just me.

I'm glad that things are at least starting to come together though.

I think they took an episode more than they needed to with Galadriel leaving Numenor. That said, part of me appreciates how much the show was trying to set up there with all the different characters and I do think episode 5 had the best Galadriel, Halbrand, and Numenor stuff so far.

This episode did seem to stall a little on the Southlands storyline. They could have moved it along a little further or cut a few minutes out of it (just don't cut any of the Adar bits, those are gold).