Amazon's Rings of Power - General Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

[CB Fan]

Just got all caught up. Really enjoying the new season so far.

 

[Kaleb]

Lmao, so much for that earlier report

 

[Kaleb]

 

[DarkKnight88]

Apparently more complicated than that it seems.

It’s difficult to put the stat in full context, as Amazon has not defined how it quantifies its viewership; for example, 40 million could simply be the number of people who watched any portion of the available episodes.

However, the studio has provided similar numbers for other titles, including the first season of “Rings of Power,” which it touted as reaching 25 million viewers in just its first day of availability in 2022. Therefore, as indicated by Luminate’s measurement of Season 2’s opening weekend, the series’ most recent outing appears to be significantly lagging behind its first.

‘The Rings of Power’ Season 2 Reaches 40 Million Viewers in 11 Days, Amazon Says

Amazon has reported that Season 2 of 'The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power has reached 40 million viewers in 11 days.

variety.com

I guess the real truth will be if they go ahead with Seasons 4-5 (Season 3 is a guarantee at this point).

 

[blueharvest]

 

[Weather Witch]

It's admirable that they appear to be sticking to their guns. In enjoyed season 1 overall, but the second season is much stronger so far IMO.

 

[Sithborg]

Not really. Its called "a half billion just for rights" sunk cost.

 

[CB Fan]

True pay all that money better follow through lol. Glad this season is better (so far) and it’s being received well too.

 

[PunyGod]

I'm very well versed in the books, but haven't watched any of the episodes of S2. If the orcs were trying to kill him and he had to try to get them to accept him, I can assure you that it's as made up as S1 was. Sauron (in the books) would have so cowed the orcs that they literally would have done whatever he asked without hesitation. In fact, he actually commanded orcs during the first age; which was before the non-events of the 2nd age depicted in this "story".

Tolkien wrote that Orcs weren't always happy about serving the dark lords in both LOTR and Silmarillion. That's obviously where the show is taking inspiration.

They are trying to humanize the Orcs and give them their own storyline. A lot of fans don't seem to like this but I don't have a problem with it in and of itself. But the question is to what end? We already know where the story goes so there really isn't much point in trying to expand on the orcs here.

 

[PunyGod]

The most frustrating thing about this show is how they draw out pointless details but then drop important plot points out of nowhere.

Its been 2 seasons of buildup just to reveal the wizards name. But then the downfall of Numenor just comes out of nowhere and they are already burning temples. We didn't even get to see Pharazon actually take the throne beyond a crowd chanting his name.

And the dwarves losing and regaining their kingdom with a ring happens in 2 episodes. That's the kind of thing you want to stretch out more.

The few times they stick to the lore such as Annatar's manipulations only serve as a sad reminder of what a proper adaptation could have been.

 

[InCali]

Tolkien wrote that Orcs weren't always happy about serving the dark lords in both LOTR and Silmarillion. That's obviously where the show is taking inspiration.

They are trying to humanize the Orcs and give them their own storyline. A lot of fans don't seem to like this but I don't have a problem with it in and of itself. But the question is to what end? We already know where the story goes so there really isn't much point in trying to expand on the orcs here.

Well, "inspiration" is being kind, but, yes, it's true that some orcs wanted to be free of Sauron. Gorbag and Shagrat are an example of this, before they fought, in Cirith Ungol. They spoke about leaving and setting up on their own.

That being said, my point was that if they met Sauron, they would be utterly and completely cowed by him and the idea that they would try to fight or kill him is as ludicrous as if they came before the balrog of Moria and tried to kick him out.

Of course, I haven't watched S2 so maybe that's not even what happened.

 

[misjuevos]

I'm a big fan of fantasy dwarves and dwarven stuff. So all the dwarven story parts I like following. I love seeing Khazadum, and them mining. I had just finished playing return to moria a few months ago. This dwarven stuff is interesting and fun. I like seeing the market. In the movies they would show these huge cities but we never got to see the day to day walking around. Because Moria is in ruins. We saw some of the market in the intro to the Hobbit, I like seeing it here in the show.

I really like seeing the architecture. The shots of the locations are really nice. The architecture of the different races, especially Dwarven, Elven, and Numenoreans is really cool to see. Just really nice wallpaper looking shots of the cities.

I still think the look of the dwarves is missing the prosthetic arms. I haven't noticed the feet as much, but the regular actors arms really standout in a bad way. They should really think about using the prostetic thick dwarven arms like in the hobbit movie. The faces, ears, noses, beards, and hair all look good, just not the arms.

Also the rings affecting Durin so quickly is also something I don't like, dwarves are much hardier and this makes them seem very weak willed, almost like a human. In fact the Rings of Power given to the Dwarves did not corrupt them as much as they did with Men or Elves. So this is my nitpick with the depiction so far. But I still like seeing the Khazadum as a working functional city. I want to see more crafting going on though by the dwarves. Maybe before the battle they will show them forging armor and weapons. I have to see some dwarven smiths hammering metal and forging.

I like the Khazad......Dum chant.

 

[Sithborg]

Well, "inspiration" is being kind, but, yes, it's true that some orcs wanted to be free of Sauron. Gorbag and Shagrat are an example of this, before they fought, in Cirith Ungol. They spoke about leaving and setting up on their own.

That being said, my point was that if they met Sauron, they would be utterly and completely cowed by him and the idea that they would try to fight or kill him is as ludicrous as if they came before the balrog of Moria and tried to kick him out.

Of course, I haven't watched S2 so maybe that's not even what happened.

I'm sure, in the end, the orcs will be cowed by Sauron. Adar, the corrupted elf in this show, was the one to stab Sauron in the back in the S2 prologue part. I'm not sure the orcs would have revolted if Adar was not around, and he is the one leading the orcs against what he thinks is Sauron. And I get the impression that Sauron is still slowly gaining his full strength. Of course, that could just be storytelling slowly ramping up the threat of him, as we are beginning to see him using more power. But then again, not quite sure what their 5 season plan is.

Also the rings affecting Durin so quickly is also something I don't like, dwarves are much hardier and this makes them seem very weak willed, almost like a human. In fact the Rings of Power given to the Dwarves did not corrupt them as much as they did with Men or Elves. So this is my nitpick with the depiction so far. But I still like seeing the Khazadum as a working functional city. I want to see more crafting going on though by the dwarves. Maybe before the battle they will show them forging armor and weapons. I have to see some dwarven smiths hammering metal and forging.

I like the Khazad......Dum chant.

I think they are going with being a ring bearer is a burden, no matter the ring you have. And dwarves, as sturdy as they are, are not elves. So you can see them being worn down, as we see Durin III getting visibly older. No idea what rights they have, so I am curious to see if they can keep some of the fates of some of the rings.

 

[InCali]

I'm sure, in the end, the orcs will be cowed by Sauron. Adar, the corrupted elf in this show, was the one to stab Sauron in the back in the S2 prologue part. I'm not sure the orcs would have revolted if Adar was not around, and he is the one leading the orcs against what he thinks is Sauron. And I get the impression that Sauron is still slowly gaining his full strength. Of course, that could just be storytelling slowly ramping up the threat of him, as we are beginning to see him using more power. But then again, not quite sure what their 5 season plan is.



I think they are going with being a ring bearer is a burden, no matter the ring you have. And dwarves, as sturdy as they are, are not elves. So you can see them being worn down, as we see Durin III getting visibly older. No idea what rights they have, so I am curious to see if they can keep some of the fates of some of the rings.

Runs out of the room with hair on fire.

 

[henzINNIT]

When the show was announced, I seem to recall it was described as a deal for five seasons of television. I wonder if Amazon is contractually obliged to fulfill this order regardless of success. The entire Prime TV venture appears to be a loss the company takes for other profits, so I could certainly see Amazon sticking it out just to fill their tentpole IP quota.

The most frustrating thing about this show is how they draw out pointless details but then drop important plot points out of nowhere.

Its been 2 seasons of buildup just to reveal the wizards name. But then the downfall of Numenor just comes out of nowhere and they are already burning temples. We didn't even get to see Pharazon actually take the throne beyond a crowd chanting his name.

And the dwarves losing and regaining their kingdom with a ring happens in 2 episodes. That's the kind of thing you want to stretch out more.

The few times they stick to the lore such as Annatar's manipulations only serve as a sad reminder of what a proper adaptation could have been.

Well said. The pace of events in Numenor is crazy to me. I was anticipating some chess moves between the Faithful and the Kingsmen, Muriel struggling to maintain order etc. etc. If nothing else, I'm glad to be well past the awkward "elves took our jobs" stage I suppose.

I think the show has settled into decent quality "Tolkien-lite" which is going to cram in every lore thing it can. I'm enjoying it on that level, but every now and then I'll be reminded of the epic it could have been.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Are the female dwarves stone singing a thing from Tolkien or an invention for the show ?

 

[henzINNIT]

Are the female dwarves stone singing a thing from Tolkien or an invention for the show ?

I believe it is a show invention. One of the better ones too in my opinion.

 

[misjuevos]

I Iooked up the rights the show has, for come clarity.

This is what J.D. Payne said about it:
So what did Amazon buy? “We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit,” Payne says. “And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, or any of those other books.”

So they have the bullet points for key events, but everything that was flushed out in the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and The History of Middle-earth they can't use. So this explains why they can get close to something, but then veer off in a strange direction. That is why they use some names, but then skirt around others.

 

[Kaleb]

Watching Sauron/Annatar manipulate Celebrimbor ,and slowly watching Celebrimbor slowly descending into madness/confusion might be my favorite part of this season so far

 

[InCali]

It seems like the show even contradicts itself. The pilot opened with Sauron in full armor leading an army of orcs, but it now seems that he was never in charge them and was instantly betrayed by them.

The biggest problem I have with the show is that they're trying to milk five seasons of television with the scraps from the appendices. There could've been something interesting in detailing the events leading to the prologue in Fellowship, but the writers simply aren't up to the challenge of filling in the gaps in Tolkien's story and writing dialogue that feels of a piece with what he would write. At least Jackson and co. had an ear for that sort of thing. But when it comes down to it the characters don't feel like Tolkien, and their behavior is extremely ooc from what it should be in the timeline. And with Amazon not able to reference any design elements from the films the show feels like a generic, off-brand version of the real thing. There are entire plotlines that are only included because they're similar to the films and what casual fans might expect from a LOTR story, but the execution is severely lacking. It's not surprising given this is the showrunner's first produced work, but it is incredibly disappointing. There is so much padding and mystery boxing that it's hard to find anything substantive. Literally the only enjoyable thing is the music, though I still would've preferred if Shore had done more than just the theme.

I tried giving the show another shot with season 2, but I had to shut it off when Galadariel told Gil-Galad that Sauron "is no man." I imagine even most fanfics are more clever and imaginative than that.

I think the big positive about this series is that no one can spoil anything for me.

 

[henzINNIT]

Despite s2 being an improvement on the first, it still has many of the same nagging issues. The line reuse really needled me in Episode 6. Tom telling the Stranger "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life..." was awful. I hate it when prequels show us where iconic characters got their memorable moments from. It was an awful application of the quote too, saying basically the opposite this time.

 

[PunyGod]

Despite s2 being an improvement on the first, it still has many of the same nagging issues. The line reuse really needled me in Episode 6. Tom telling the Stranger "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life..." was awful. I hate it when prequels show us where iconic characters got their memorable moments from. It was an awful application of the quote too, saying basically the opposite this time.

It's also strange to me that Tom is having such a direct involvement to the point of being Yoda to a wizard. When in LOTR he seemed much more aloof and hardly cared about Sauron.

I doubt they will even explain this change since Tom wasn't in the movies and that is obviously what they want to lead in to.

 

[henzINNIT]

It's also strange to me that Tom is having such a direct involvement to the point of being Yoda to a wizard. When in LOTR he seemed much more aloof and hardly cared about Sauron.

I doubt they will even explain this change since Tom wasn't in the movies and that is obviously what they want to lead in to.

Yeah I agree. It's a solid depiction when he's being more carefree and whimsical, but then he's forced into being a mentor. It is not a natural role for this character. Someone elsewhere described him as a "NPC quest-giver" and I think that's quite appropriate.

The big argument for cutting Tom from LotR is that he's such a tangent, and I guess this approach 'solves' that. Doesn't feel right though.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Kaleb]

Amazing episode, this is how you do a large scale battle, given her previous work on the p 1st season and even on Shogun, I need to see Charlotte Brändström do a feature film in her near future, she has an incredible eye for directing battle scenes