America's Healthcare Crisis

[Maxwell Smart]

LOL some of you people just make me smile, I can't help it.

Since when did health insurance become a 'human right'? What if all of the doctors in the world just up and quit? Would you send them to jail for denying others a 'human right'? No way, that's ridiculous. So 40 million people are without health insurance in this country. That's less than 15% of the entire U.S. population. Did you know that in China, a whopping 80% don't have health insurance?? But how can that be if this is such an essential aspect of life?

So the new standard is ****ing red China? I'll keep that in mind. :rolleye:

And this total mindmelting over 'the less fortunate' and 'poor' is just pathetic. People make BAD CHOICES in life. That's how they wind up in the poor house. I'm not talking about children and handicapped here. I'm talking about people who CHOSE to screw off in school, giving up that 'decent education' you're talking about in the process.

And what is this crap about not being able to afford college? Ever hear of winning scholarships for good grades? Ever hear of student loans? Ever hear of government grants? Ever hear of, gee, the U.S. military? Where there's a will, there's a way. Curling up into the fetal position and being a baby will get you nowhere, yet you advocate for people who do just that.

Should we do something in terms of health coverage for CHILDREN and HANDICAPPED? Absolutely, you bet your ass. But for the people too lazy to pick themselves up and get motivated? Screw 'em, they can stay a part of the MINORITY without health insurance for all I care.

You little sack of ****, you've never been in a real fix in your entire goddamn life. You live in Texas don't you(I think I heard that before)? Dude, please, pm me and I'll give you an address with a ****ing map to my house. PLEASE, come here and say this **** to my face. God, I want you to.

 

[War Lord]

I broke a bone in my hand two years ago through no fault of my own.

I got that sucker diagnosed quickly and seen to by a doctor and bandaged. I went back every couple of months to get the bandage changed. I got x-rays.

I got all of this for free. My hand was perfectly mended.

How much would this have cost me in the US? Can the working class afford something that without having to starve themselves or make some other sacrafice? You tell me.

I watched a docmentary tv show by the same guy that made that show Supersize Me. He wanted to see what it would be like to be working class for awhile. It's a difficult life, working in minimum wage jobs, trying to keep up the rent, and deprive yourself of luxuries so many of us are used to. He hurt his foot or something, I can't remember. He wasn't sure if it was broken or not. It cost him hundreds, HUNDREDS, of dollars just to get seen. Just. To. Get. Seen. A few hundred dollars is a big deal to a working class man.

A couple of x-rays, bandages, and a doctor's time probably would have cost you about $500, one time. This is compared to paying $500/month in the Canadian system that I am forced to pay in taxes for a system I'd probably never use. I'd prefer to save that $500 myself and prepare for the worst.

That Super-size guy is nothing but a propagandist.

 

[Emrys]

LOL some of you people just make me smile, I can't help it.

Since when did health insurance become a 'human right'? What if all of the doctors in the world just up and quit? Would you send them to jail for denying others a 'human right'? No way,

Actually Yes way it's called the hippocratic oath and a Doctor can be seriously punished if he doesn't follw it.

that's ridiculous. So 40 million people are without health insurance in this country. That's less than 15% of the entire U.S. population. Did you know that in China, a whopping 80% don't have health insurance?? But how can that be if this is such an essential aspect of life?

Do you also know how many people die every year thanks to it? Thanks to insignificant little infections which could have been cured with a basic healthcare system?

And this total mindmelting over 'the less fortunate' and 'poor' is just pathetic. People make BAD CHOICES in life. That's how they wind up in the poor house. I'm not talking about children and handicapped here. I'm talking about people who CHOSE to screw off in school, giving up that 'decent education' you're talking about in the process.

So in essence you advocate to kick them when they are already down or even worse let them croak.

And what is this crap about not being able to afford college? Ever hear of winning scholarships for good grades? Ever hear of student loans? Ever hear of government grants? Ever hear of, gee, the U.S. military? Where there's a will, there's a way. Curling up into the fetal position and being a baby will get you nowhere, yet you advocate for people who do just that.

The U.S. Military? ahh I see, have a better live but risk getting killed in the process, what an option, excuse me when I laugh. That's nothing short of blackmailing someone. Scholarships are not there in abundance the same with student loans and goverment grant, they are limited.

Should we do something in terms of health coverage for CHILDREN and HANDICAPPED? Absolutely, you bet your ass. But for the people too lazy to pick themselves up and get motivated? Screw 'em, they can stay a part of the MINORITY without health insurance for all I care.

If you should ever come into the position that you need help from someone else I hope he shows you the same kindness you display here.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

LOL some of you people just make me smile, I can't help it.

Since when did health insurance become a 'human right'? What if all of the doctors in the world just up and quit? Would you send them to jail for denying others a 'human right'?

Hahaha, yes, that's what these socialist facsists would do, I'm afraid.

People are terrified of the truth, the cosmic unavoidable truth about our existence here, the fact that sometimes, sorry, "it sucks to be you."

I know people that have smoked almost their whole lives and lived to be 90. I also used to know of a totally healthy kid who just got cancer and died at age 11.
Nature is unfair and nothing's going to change that, no government on Earth.
And sadly, some people, through no fault of their own, are going to end up in misery, the vast majority bring it upon themselves though, and a lot of the reason why is this insane belief that just by being BORN, you are entitled to a good life.
Sorry, in reality you have to work, strive and FIGHT for a good life, and hope that you're even lucky enough to get that "good life" after working for it.

 

[kainedamo]

War Lord, I can't believe you're actually serious.

You have no respect for other people. Old people living by themselves living off pensions, people living in crappy areas where it is extremely difficult to aim your goals very high, ordinary joes that work hard and do their jobs well...

You have no respect for other people and your attitude is snobbish. You have not made one single convincing argument.

All you have done is convince me that you look down on the working class.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

You little sack of ****,

Dude, you seriously need to power-down your rage.
You're making a fool of yourself like you always do in your "You all suck. I hate you all. If I'm attracted to a woman it's my god-given right that she should feel the same about me" threads, hahaha.

 

[lazur]

Actually Yes way it's called the hippocratic oath and a Doctor can be seriously punished if he doesn't follw it.

Negative. Doctors, like anyone else, can quit their jobs and give up their licenses. They cannot be sent to jail for that. Nice try though.

Do you also know how many people die every year thanks to it? Thanks to insignificant little infections which could have been cured with a basic healthcare system?

I agree, but nationalized healthcare, forcing everyone into the same healthcare system, is not the solution.

So in essence you advocate to kick them when they are already down or even worse let them croak.

Not at all. I have nothing against helping others, so long as doing so doesn't harm many more.

The U.S. Military? ahh I see, have a better live but risk getting killed in the process, what an option, excuse me when I laugh. That's nothing short of blackmailing someone. Scholarships are not there in abundance the same with student loans and goverment grant, they are limited.

I spent 5 years in the Air Force, where I went to college. Most of my friends and I did not die. In fact, I don't know anyone personally who died while I was serving. You stand a better chance of being killed during a party on a college campus, imo.

And, sorry, but anyone with okay grades can get student loans. The b*tch is paying them back. Believe me, I know.

If you should ever come into the position that you need help from someone else I hope he shows you the same kindness you display here.

Needing occasional help to get back on your feet is one thing. Needing a crutch your entire life is another.

 

[Emrys]

Yes, I totally agree. Key-word? "Y.O.U.".
I'm not a heartless guy in any way. In fact, I'd dare say that I help out more homeless people than most here.
All I'm saying, which is how I started out, is that I don't understand this deification of "government". I don't see how it's god-ordained or something, that it is a total strangers responsibility to keep me happy and fit and help me out when things are bad.
I think that we are still animals living in nature and that the thing that makes us "human" is our own compassion towards one another, not the fact that we have erected governments.

Because the compassion of your fellow man is a little too fickle to be real help. One day I feel like giving, the next day I don't and that's not reliable enough. I'm not fond of the government either but I'm even less fond of the idea to keep help a private thing cause that has never worked in the past.

 

[kainedamo]

Maxwell may be a little wacky and angry.

But Wilhelm, War Lord... you're just not looking at the subject logically or practically. The way you argue suggests to me that you thought about the subject for all of 5 seconds.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

Dude, you seriously need to power-down your rage.

His attitude is horrid and unjustifiable. You have no idea how much I wanna whoop this guys' ass right now. Some opinions DO deserve a *****slap, IMO.

I'm not going to discuss non-related matters in this thread.

 

[Emrys]

Hahaha, yes, that's what these socialist facsists would do, I'm afraid.

People are terrified of the truth, the cosmic unavoidable truth about our existence here, the fact that sometimes, sorry, "it sucks to be you."

I know people that have smoked almost their whole lives and lived to be 90. I also used to know of a totally healthy kid who just got cancer and died at age 11.
Nature is unfair and nothing's going to change that, no government on Earth.
And sadly, some people, through no fault of their own, are going to end up in misery, the vast majority bring it upon themselves though, and a lot of the reason why is this insane belief that just by being BORN, you are entitled to a good life.
Sorry, in reality you have to work, strive and FIGHT for a good life, and hope that you're even lucky enough to get that "good life" after working for it.

well, why don't we just make things easier and provide a nice little arsenic pill to sick people. after all, sucks to be you, right?

 

[lazur]

So the new standard is ****ing red China? I'll keep that in mind. :rolleye.

Never said it was. But I was drawing a comparison so that people in the U.S. could see just how good we have it, compared to other countries.

You little sack of ****, you've never been in a real fix in your entire goddamn life. You live in Texas don't you(I think I heard that before)? Dude, please, pm me and I'll give you an address with a ****ing map to my house. PLEASE, come here and say this **** to my face. God, I want you to.

Dude, aside from the fact that you'd be in a "real fix" if you got in my face, I wouldn't visit that dirty state if you mailed me a check for the roundtrip. I actually live in Virginia - another red state . So quit being such a punk with your silly little meaninglless threats.

No one is saying people don't occasionally need help in life. We all do at some point or another. But I am saying that the provision of help should not harm more people than it helps.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

Maxwell may be a little wacky and angry.

Sorry but some things really get under my skin. Especially these inhuman "let them eat cake" attitudes.

Afterall.. I am the same guy who jumped on somebody durving government class after saying something very similar. Its just I'm very passionate about these things, and sometimes I get myself in to trouble(also told the right-wing teacher in that class to **** himself once).

 

[kainedamo]

Maxwell, dude... listen to me. This anger isn't healthy for you and niether is it helpful in this debate. Yelling "im gonna kick your ass" or saying "you are such a ****" isn't doing you or your side of the debate any favours at all.

Go do something else man. Come back when you've calmed down.

 

[War Lord]

War Lord, I can't believe you're actually serious.

You have no respect for other people. Old people living by themselves living off pensions, people living in crappy areas where it is extremely difficult to aim your goals very high, ordinary joes that work hard and do their jobs well...

You have no respect for other people and your attitude is snobbish. You have not made one single convincing argument.

All you have done is convince me that you look down on the working class.

I am the working class. In fact, I make less money than most of the working class, so don't give me this, "I'm a snob" bit. Part of the reason why I work 240 to 270 hours a month is because I live in a country that is so highly taxed. You think having to work so many hours is healthy? It'll probably eventually tax my health to the point of where I'll suffer health problems later on.

If an old person cannot support themselves any longer, then home them in nursing homes.

 

[War Lord]

Maxwell, dude... listen to me. This anger isn't healthy for you and niether is it helpful in this debate. Yelling "im gonna kick your ass" or saying "you are such a ****" isn't doing you or your side of the debate any favours at all.

Go do something else man. Come back when you've calmed down.

It's also going to cause his blood pressure to rise and may contribute to a stroke or heart attack.

 

[Emrys]

Negative. Doctors, like anyone else, can quit their jobs and give up their licenses. They cannot be sent to jail for that. Nice try though.

Point it, he isn't a doctor anymore then. However as long as he has a license he's obligated to help if he doesn't he gets punished.

I agree, but nationalized healthcare, forcing everyone into the same healthcare system, is not the solution.

So what's your solution then? I'm always open for alternatives but please, working alternatives not such nonsense like charity.

 

[Emrys]

Never said it was. But I was drawing a comparison so that people in the U.S. could see just how good we have it, compared to other countries.



Dude, aside from the fact that you'd be in a "real fix" if you got in my face, I wouldn't visit that dirty state if you mailed me a check for the roundtrip. I actually live in Virginia - another red state . So quit being such a punk with your silly little meaninglless threats.

No one is saying people don't occasionally need help in life. We all do at some point or another. But I am saying that the provision of help should not harm more people than it helps.

Hey, don't quote me saying stuff I never did!

 

[Maxwell Smart]

Dude, aside from the fact that you'd be in a "real fix" if you got in my face, I wouldn't visit that dirty state if you mailed me a check for the roundtrip. I actually live in Virginia - another red state . So quit being such a punk with your silly little meaninglless threats.

It was pointless to threaten you, I admit.

But still, you did get my pretty hot under the collar. And no, you'd be in a fix. It doesn't matter if you're stronger or what. I'm the type that is always willing to go as far as it takes in a physical confrontation. I'd find a way.

 

[War Lord]

Maxwell may be a little wacky and angry.

But Wilhelm, War Lord... you're just not looking at the subject logically or practically. The way you argue suggests to me that you thought about the subject for all of 5 seconds.

I've thought about it deeply and the only reasonable conclusion is to let people provide for themselves and let private charities take care of those who aren't able to take care of themselves.

 

[Emrys]

Most cancers are totally lifestyle driven. A person who has lived his life in a healthy way will not likely be too laid up by most viruses anyway.

I'm personally content to die, should my time be up.

Every medic and doctor from here to timbuktu would laugh in your face about that idiotic statement.

And some people are not content with the idea of dying thanks to a flu that could have been cured with basic medical attention.

 

[lazur]

Point it, he isn't a doctor anymore then. However as long as he has a license he's obligated to help if he doesn't he gets punished.

Okay, listen carefully, please. This wasn't a discussion about what a doctor's obligation is, so quit being so condescending and LISTEN to the topic, k?

Someone said "healthcare is a human right". I said, well, what if ALL doctors up and quit as doctors. Who then provides this "human right"?

A human right is something NOT granted by man, but granted by the very fact that one exists.

There's a big difference between HUMANE treatment (aka healthcare) and a right (aka breathing).

Does it suck that people don't have healthcare? Yes, but the fact that 40 million people do in this country and yet no one has been arrested, well that sorta takes the wind out of your 'human rights' sails.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

Maxwell, dude... listen to me. This anger isn't healthy for you and niether is it helpful in this debate. Yelling "im gonna kick your ass" or saying "you are such a ****" isn't doing you or your side of the debate any favours at all.

Go do something else man. Come back when you've calmed down.

I'm calm.

"Just calm down okay!??"

Calmer than you are.

I'm cool, don't worry about it.

 

[War Lord]

Every medic and doctor from here to timbuktu would laugh in your face about that idiotic statement.

And some people are not content with the idea of dying thanks to a flu that could have been cured with basic medical attention.

It's well documented that the chance a person gets cancer is very much affected by their lifestyle choices, with genetics being a small part.

Medical science can't do much for you, at this point, that you couldn't do yourself with a little time and attention.

 

[Emrys]

I've thought about it deeply and the only reasonable conclusion is to let people provide for themselves and let private charities take care of those who aren't able to take care of themselves.

too unreliable