America's Healthcare Crisis

[War Lord]

I really don't understand how a christian can show so little value for live.

It's not that I hold little value for life. One has to consider costs when making any kind of choice, large or small.

For example, Europe chose to have a healthcare system and forego a strong military ability. Consequently, Europe for the sake of healthcare chose to become dependent upon the US to defend it. That's the price Europe paid so it could have healthcare.

Ultimately, since free healthcare really cannot be free, one needs to ask whether the price of having it is worth the cost and loss of other choices and for me, the answer is no.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

almost, almost... a little more but almost there.

Oh I got. Dutch.

 

[Admiral_N8]

We're not talking about somebody begging for 20 bucks to go buy a rock of crack, we're talking about people's health. This is a basic human rights issue- and it reflects horribly on our society that we even have to argue over this. In Europe its an assumed right to have equal access to healthcare. Its not even a political issue, liberals and conservatives alike support the healthcare system in those countries, for the most part.

And why do you think Europes health care system is so crappy compared the US? Why do you think Europe has no growth, economically and population? Huge taxes....because of things like "free healthcare".

People say its "free"....sure its "free", AFTER they took about 60% of your money away for tax. Thanks for the "Free" healthcare! haha


If you really want hospitals to be run like the DMV or public schools then thats super, but we all know how well the government ACTUALLY performs in these types of things.

 

[Emrys]

And why do you think Europes health care system is so crappy compared the US? Why do you think Europe has no growth, economically and population? Huge taxes....because of things like "free healthcare".

People say its "free"....sure its "free", AFTER they took about 60% of your money away for tax. Thanks for the "Free" healthcare! haha


If you really want hospitals to be run like the DMV or public schools then thats super, but we all know how well the government ACTUALLY performs in these types of things.

First of all there is no european health care since there is no unified europe and second not all health care in european countries is bad on the contrary in some it's very excellent. It's all a matter of management. As for growth economically and population wise. That depends on the country.

You're right about something though, healthcare is not really free however since everyone has to pay it makes access for people with less money much easier and that's something I wouldn't give up for anything in the world cause like I said, if not for free healthcare I'd arleady be dead by now.

 

[Admiral_N8]

First of all there is no european health care since there is no unified europe and second not all health care in european countries is bad on the contrary in some it's very excellent. It's all a matter of management. As for growth economically and population wise. That depends on the country.

You're right about something though, healthcare is not really free however since everyone has to pay it makes access for people with less money much easier and that's something I wouldn't give up for anything in the world cause like I said, if not for free healthcare I'd arleady be dead by now.

People seem to think that if in America when you dont have healthcare you just die at the first thing that makes you ill....which is far from the case.

And the growth economically and population wise for Europe is the same pretty much among its big important members, slow and almost negative.

But I'm glad free healthcare helped you

 

[lazur]

But thats human nature.

No it's not. It wasn't until the age of technology that all of mankind became so damned lazy. Before that, the 'community' spirit was very much alive and kicking. We didn't want or expect the government to do everything for us.

Healthcare is not an entitlement. Granted, it is critical for survival, but that doesn't make it a 'right' to be had. In a perfect world, everyone would be able to receive the care they need. But this isn't a perfect world and no single country on the planet has figured out a way of actually realizing a healthcare system that works and works effectively. And don't even mention Canada, where people have to go to veterinarians for care, or sneak across the border to the U.S. kthx. Compared to every other country out there, I'd say we're doing pretty good at taking care of at least 85% of the population anyway. Not perfect, but also not a failure.

 

[lazur]

People seem to think that if in America when you dont have healthcare you just die at the first thing that makes you ill....which is far from the case.

And the growth economically and population wise for Europe is the same pretty much among its big important members, slow and almost negative.

But I'm glad free healthcare helped you

What people don't stop to think about is that a national healthcare system will bankrupt this country. They can't even begin to imagine what such an undertaking would cost.

You can't go to the grocery store and get all the food you need for FREE. Yet that is also a critical element to survival. You, therefore, should not be able to go to a hospital and receive all of the medicine you need for free either. Someone has got to pay for it.

I'm all for helping those 'less fortunate' out, but not at the cost of bleeding the country dry. There has to be a way that we can assist with this problem WITHOUT breaking down the entire healthcare system.

 

[Admiral_N8]

What people don't stop to think about is that a national healthcare system will bankrupt this country. They can't even begin to imagine what such an undertaking would cost.

You can't go to the grocery store and get all the food you need for FREE. Yet that is also a critical element to survival. You, therefore, should not be able to go to a hospital and receive all of the medicine you need for free either. Someone has got to pay for it.

I'm all for helping those 'less fortunate' out, but not at the cost of bleeding the country dry. There has to be a way that we can assist with this problem WITHOUT breaking down the entire healthcare system.

Exactly. People say we should have "free" and universal healthcare because its neccessary for us to live....yet food and water are needed, why arent they free?

America can barely afford to pay medicare and social security, and people want to put the entire medical system under the governments control and budget?? Wishful thinking that is very unrealistic.

 

[zanos]

I've wondered what I would do if I got cancer, say, and couldn't afford treatment, and yes, the answer is, if I was in unbearable pain, I'd kill myself, probably not until after trying my utmost to get help from loved ones and anyone who might be sympathetic to my problem.

I just don't see how any of this is the government's concern. For instance, I pay taxes, but there's no way in Hell that I've paid as much in taxes as it would cost to keep me alive and pain-free if I had a life-threatening illness.

Canadiens pay slightly lower taxes than we do and they have a national healthcare plan. I'm pretty sure the US could afford it based on current taxes but let's say they have to raise taxes by 3 percent. This is hardly a huge burden on each citizen and the economy. Your employer is probably taking that much out of your paycheck already if they don't offer completely free healthcare which most don't.

 

[zanos]

Exactly. People say we should have "free" and universal healthcare because its neccessary for us to live....yet food and water are needed, why arent they free?

America can barely afford to pay medicare and social security, and people want to put the entire medical system under the governments control and budget?? Wishful thinking that is very unrealistic.

Maybe because the cost of feeding oneself adequately doesn't put you out of house and home? I can probably survive on $90 a month for food if need be. Can you say the same about healthcare if you get hurt? I rest my case.

 

[zanos]

It's not that I hold little value for life. One has to consider costs when making any kind of choice, large or small.

For example, Europe chose to have a healthcare system and forego a strong military ability. Consequently, Europe for the sake of healthcare chose to become dependent upon the US to defend it. That's the price Europe paid so it could have healthcare.

Ultimately, since free healthcare really cannot be free, one needs to ask whether the price of having it is worth the cost and loss of other choices and for me, the answer is no.

Our current military budget while very high only makes up a very small percentage of our GNP. I believe it's about 2.5 percent even with our current rampant spending. The cost of defense is definately not our excuse.

 

[rdh007]

People seem to think that if in America when you dont have healthcare you just die at the first thing that makes you ill....which is far from the case.

And the growth economically and population wise for Europe is the same pretty much among its big important members, slow and almost negative.

But I'm glad free healthcare helped you

Absolutely right. A small infection never leads to a bigger one. A sore tooth is no problem when you've got string, whiskey, and willpower.

 

[rdh007]

What people don't stop to think about is that a national healthcare system will bankrupt this country. They can't even begin to imagine what such an undertaking would cost.

Not if we shifted costs. Like to stop paying farmers not to farm, building bridges to nowhere, and some of the other silly crap we do. It would no doubt be expensive, but then imagine the burden lifted off employers that employ people that would rely on this potential system.

 

[War Lord]

Canadiens pay slightly lower taxes than we do and they have a national healthcare plan. I'm pretty sure the US could afford it based on current taxes but let's say they have to raise taxes by 3 percent. This is hardly a huge burden on each citizen and the economy. Your employer is probably taking that much out of your paycheck already if they don't offer completely free healthcare which most don't.

A national healthcare plan where, as long as you don't have a much more serious situation than a broken arm, you can receive timely treatment. However, need a new hip?

Forget it.

You'd have to raise your taxes much more than 3 percent. In Canada, healthcare is the single biggest expense, behind debt payments. Probably a good 40% of all taxes is taken up by healthcare and it will get worse.

 

[War Lord]

Absolutely right. A small infection never leads to a bigger one. A sore tooth is no problem when you've got string, whiskey, and willpower.

A small infection, you should get some alcohol and some gauze. A sore tooth can be done by your local dentist for about $200.

 

[War Lord]

Not if we shifted costs. Like to stop paying farmers not to farm, building bridges to nowhere, and some of the other silly crap we do. It would no doubt be expensive, but then imagine the burden lifted off employers that employ people that would rely on this potential system.

You'd still have to raise taxes by almost half.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

No matter what,there is going to be a huge drop in American population in the next 30-50 years.This is when the baby boomer generation is going to die.I wonder how people will take it...

 

[Maxwell Smart]

No matter what,there is going to be a huge drop in American population in the next 30-50 years.This is when the baby boomer generation is going to die.I wonder how people will take it...

I dread the day Generation X is in charge. Not that the Boomers have done a bang up job by any means, they have been quite horrible for the most part. But I have this feeling Gen X will be worse.

 

[Admiral_N8]

Maybe because the cost of feeding oneself adequately doesn't put you out of house and home? I can probably survive on $90 a month for food if need be. Can you say the same about healthcare if you get hurt? I rest my case.

You rest your case? So you think the government shouldnt pay for your food since you can pay for it, well should the government pay [in this free healthcare system] for rich people who can afford it? Or do the rich people have to pay for it but not get to enjoy it?

And there are pretty cheap healthcare options out there, you know why people dont do it much of the time? They dont think they need it, they KNOW they need food, but I've never been sick so I dont need it, but food we will always need. People just dont budget for it because it really doesnt matter to most people, or so they think.

 

[Admiral_N8]

Canadiens pay slightly lower taxes than we do and they have a national healthcare plan.

Are you saying Canadians pay lower taxes than Americans??

 

[zanos]

They pay lower income and sales taxes.

 

[Admiral_N8]

They pay lower income and sales taxes.

But when all things are taken into account they pay higher taxes.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

Admiral I think you'd make an interesting reality TV show character.

 

[user123456789]

Admiral I think you'd make an interesting reality TV show character.

rofl agreed

 

[Admiral_N8]

Admiral I think you'd make an interesting reality TV show character.