The Dark Knight Anyone change their minds that weren't liking it at first?

[Fenrir]

I just never saw him as such a grungy hobo character. I mean he was always in tails and a bowtie for gods sake. He's Mr Vain.

TDK Joker's appearance seems to have been heavily inspired by the Arkham Asylum Joker - long trench coat, raggedy clothes, long and shabby hair with little concern for style and appearances.

 

[Anita18]

Does he just look at a deck of cards one day and sees The Joker card in his jester hat and pointy bell shoes and says, "Hey I'd like to be that. Sounds fun."

Why not?

I like the chemically-bathed Joker. THE REAL JOKER. I like how he is a timid, quiet man who starts out as a chemist/stand-up comedian and then does some jobs for the mob and transforms into an insane, sick, twisted individual who seems like he is beyond saving or his brain cannot be repaired.

I didn't like that angle of TKJ for exactly the reasons you mentioned. The Joker is an extreme anarchist and psychopath - why would a timid, quiet, nice guy suddenly transform into such a person after he does some jobs for the mob?

He could start out quiet, sure, but I don' think the timid just goes away, even when you go insane.

TDK Joker's appearance seems to have been heavily inspired by the Arkham Asylum Joker - long trench coat, raggedy clothes, long and shabby hair with little concern for style and appearances.

That Joker still scares the crap out of me.

 

[Juha]

As for Harvey I'm worried that he'll be introduced but his character won't be fleshed out enough and he'll be rushed into the movie like Eddie Brock in "SPIDER-MAN 3."

Not gonna happen. Eddie Brock/Venom was utter crap because Raimi wasn't interested in him. Raimi was forced to include Brock in SM3 so it's understandable that the ending result was lousy. If the director doesn't even like the character and there's no space for the character in the directors vision , then what there is to do? This is not the case with Nolan and TDK. I'm pretty sure that Dent is one of Nolan's favourites while Raimi practically hated Venom.

Also, as a character, Brock isn't nearly as fascinating as Dent. Nolan knows how much potential Dent has as a character so he won't f*** him up. If Nolan says that Dent is the backbone of the movie, then I'm going to believe him. I mean he has no reason whatsoever not to take his sweet time with Dent. He has the Joker covered. He's an absolute so there's no need to spend that much time with him. Nolan has only two major characters he needs to concentrate on. Wayne and Dent. Well, maybe three characters if you wanna count Gordon.

So only two or three major characters and Dent is one of them. And Nolan has plenty of time in his hands, like 140 minutes. Dent won't be rushed and he's going to be fleshed out just nicely.

 

[regwec]

I think it's pathetically misguided as an approach to The Joker, but it does seem to work as a generic movie psycho.

 

[Juha]

I think it's pathetically misguided as an approach to The Joker, but it does seem to work as a generic movie psycho.

Yeah, and just like all the Joker purists always say, "if it works, don't fix it".

 

[Batmans Spirit]

I think it's pathetically misguided as an approach to The Joker, but it does seem to work as a generic movie psycho.

I know this is short but ^ 100% agree.

Yeah, and just like all the Joker purists always say, "if it works, don't fix it".

But it would have worked if he was perma white! Then they took an approach when they first wrote the script and decided to take a different approach and change it.

 

[escobar2248]

I know this is short but ^ 100% agree.

Are you a window licker??

 

[Batmans Spirit]

^ i could be...yes..

 

[Solidus]

Guys this is a place to who those people who have changed their minds on something, not brining another permawhite issue into this.

One thing I will say I'm sick of is people act as if they have seen the movie, that this Joker is ruined blah blah blah, there is no potential. Why did they do it?

Give Nolan credit, and just wait till the movie as a whole comes out to really make the final decision.

Some of you act as if this is a shallow interpertation of the Joker, though from what little I have seen *though July I will make my decision* they have a very deep powerful Joker on their hand. Not just some "psycho killer" To me the permawhite issue some act as if the white skin gives him his powers, when that is subjective lol. To me in my opinion the permawhite issue is nothing more then a superficial complaint, not connecting as deep with the spirit of the Joker as some think.

 

[Fenrir]

I think it's pathetically misguided as an approach to The Joker, but it does seem to work as a generic movie psycho.

Define "generic movie psycho". With examples and how they are relevant to the TDK Joker please.

 

[Crook]

Define "generic movie psycho". With examples and how they are relevant to the TDK Joker please.

I would assume he means the lack of flair and personality, which Joker is known for.

 

[Juha]

I think the Heath Joker definitely has flair and personality. You can find "generic movie psychos" in movies like Scream and I Know What You Did Last Summer. And TDK is nothing like those movies.

 

[Solidus]

See there has definatley been a huge attitude on these boards as of late. Though it is fine to have their opinions, but I think a lot of people here have been more so claiming that because they don't like Nolan's Joker they claim that he is not deep and just a generic movie villain. To me right there your slapping the people in the face who really are enjoying Nolan's take on it and saying hey your not intelligent enough to understand "my" Joker. That the Joker we like is lame, generic and made for the unintelligent viewer?

To me thats a slap in my face, and I'm really getting sick of this attitude on the boards, this we are better then you because your just not intelligent enough to understand our points.....

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

I think the Heath Joker definitely has flair and personality. You can find "generic movie psychos" in movies like Scream and I Know What You Did Last Summer. And TDK is nothing like those movies.

I have barely seen Heaths joker, about 3-4 sentences worth.

 

[Fenrir]

I would assume he means the lack of flair and personality, which Joker is known for.

In my estimation The Joker in TDK does have a certain flair and personality. He's just not a tiptop jester who also happens to be a genocidal psychopath as well. But he certainly seems to have his own brand of 'humor' and playful way of wreaking havoc. The "Slaughter is the best medicine" truck and "no no no, I kill the bus driver" scene are good examples.

 

[The Shape]

I would assume he means the lack of flair and personality, which Joker is known for.

How do we know the Joker's lost that? Because he isn't perfectly made up and dressed? We've only seen/heard the Joker say a few lines, and he certainly seems to be that homicidal anarchist we all know. In fact, his personality and psychological state of mind seem more spot on than ever before.

This has been said a million times, but even though he's not perma white, he's still the Joker in many ways, and he seems to be a pretty awesome representation of the character based on what we've seen so far.

 

[donk70]

I'm wavering. One day I like it, the next day I can't stand a few things.

 

[Solidus]

In my estimation The Joker in TDK does have a certain flair and personality. He's just not a tiptop jester who also happens to be a genocidal psychopath as well. But he certainly seems to have his own brand of 'humor' and playful way of wreaking havoc. The "Slaughter is the best medicine" truck and "no no no, I kill the bus driver" scene are good examples.

That and the whole bank robbing sequence. The Joke was all on his thugs that thought they were getting cuts. That had flair and then some, and just rang Joker. Backstabbing, yet in the end the joke was all on them.

 

[Juha]

How do we know the Joker's lost that? Because he isn't perfectly made up and dressed? We've only seen/heard the Joker say a few lines, and he certainly seems to be that homicidal anarchist we all know. In fact, his personality and psychological state of mind seem more spot on than ever before.

This has been said a million times, but even though he's not perma white, he's still the Joker in many ways, and he seems to be a pretty awesome representation of the character based on what we've seen so far.

QFT

See there has definatley been a huge attitude on these boards as of late. Though it is fine to have their opinions, but I think a lot of people here have been more so claiming that because they don't like Nolan's Joker they claim that he is not deep and just a generic movie villain. To me right there your slapping the people in the face who really are enjoying Nolan's take on it and saying hey your not intelligent enough to understand "my" Joker. That the Joker we like is lame, generic and made for the unintelligent viewer?

To me thats a slap in my face, and I'm really getting sick of this attitude on the boards, this we are better then you because your just not intelligent enough to understand our points.....

Nah, I don't sense anything like that at all. Some people just are mad because the Joker has no origin, no story-arch and no actual character development. They feel that the Joker has been dumbed down. Which is not the case IMO.

 

[Damiean Dark]

I think at the back of some peoples minds they see Joker as Mark Hamills portrayal but with the murderous instinct of Nicholsons. Part flair and flambouyance with a slightly posh english/american mix in the voice but with a random murder streak where he will turn from Jester to insane in an instant. Just hearing Heaths forced joker voice in the trailer turns me right off it sounds like some fool on Youtube trying to play joker not a respected proffesional actor.

 

[Solidus]

QFT



Nah, I don't sense anything like that at all. Some people just are mad because the Joker has no origin, no story-arch and no actual character development. They feel that the Joker has been dumbed down. Which is not the case IMO.

Well actually there has been on the boards last night a bunch of us were discussing this.

But yes people have their right to believe what they want, I respect most of these people that have talked on these boards and I have always been sympathetic and understanding with their views. But when some of them just come in and claim their opinion as fact that is what gets me. And a lot have been doing that as of late.

 

[Fenrir]

See there has definatley been a huge attitude on these boards as of late. Though it is fine to have their opinions, but I think a lot of people here have been more so claiming that because they don't like Nolan's Joker they claim that he is not deep and just a generic movie villain. To me right there your slapping the people in the face who really are enjoying Nolan's take on it and saying hey your not intelligent enough to understand "my" Joker. That the Joker we like is lame, generic and made for the unintelligent viewer?

To me thats a slap in my face, and I'm really getting sick of this attitude on the boards, this we are better then you because your just not intelligent enough to understand our points.....

*applause*

There certainly is a noticeable attitude on this board that if you love Nolan's handling of the Batman franchise, you're either blind sheep sucking off Nolan's loverod, not a "true" Batfan or you're unsophisticated, unintelligent "beggars who can't be choosers" that are satisfied with whatever bread crumbs the filmmakers throw our way. It's like it is a scientific impossibility to genuinely, honestly and truly love Batman Begins and TDK without having some pitiful lame agenda.

At times there is an uncomfortably condescending air blown towards such posters but hey, that's the Batboards for you.

 

[Crook]

In my estimation The Joker in TDK does have a certain flair and personality. He's just not a tiptop jester who also happens to be a genocidal psychopath as well. But he certainly seems to have his own brand of 'humor' and playful way of wreaking havoc. The "Slaughter is the best medicine" truck and "no no no, I kill the bus driver" scene are good examples.

There's no doubt been elements of Joker's humorous side with his lines and behavior. I'll keep waiting until I see the actual film, but my initial fears of a completely stoic Joker have been eased for now.

How do we know the Joker's lost that? Because he isn't perfectly made up and dressed? We've only seen/heard the Joker say a few lines, and he certainly seems to be that homicidal anarchist we all know. In fact, his personality and psychological state of mind seem more spot on than ever before.

This has been said a million times, but even though he's not perma white, he's still the Joker in many ways, and he seems to be a pretty awesome representation of the character based on what we've seen so far.

Ok, great. Except I never said those things and was merely trying to elaborate on what I thought regwec was saying.

 

[Solidus]

*applause*

There certainly is a noticeable attitude on this board that if you love Nolan's handling of the Batman franchise, you're either blind sheep sucking off Nolan's loverod, not a "true" Batfan or you're unsophisticated, unintelligent "beggars who can't be choosers" that are satisfied with whatever bread crumbs the filmmakers throw our way. It's like it is a scientific impossibility to genuinely, honestly and truly love Batman Begins and TDK without having some pitiful lame agenda.

At times there is an uncomfortably condescending air blown towards such posters but hey, that's the Batboards for you.

Yea but I've been on these boards for some time, and these past 2 months have been some of the worst, a great deal of regular posters have left, or barley come on, so a lot of good civil discussions went with them.

But there is still some great posters on here. I mean I respect Crook and Regwec, even though we have different views I have had some of my best discussions with them, and hope in the future to continue to do so.

 

[Fenrir]

That and the whole bank robbing sequence. The Joke was all on his thugs that thought they were getting cuts. That had flair and then some, and just rang Joker. Backstabbing, yet in the end the joke was all on them.

The "just a normal bank robbery with a twist" angle was awesome. And the grenade that he tapes to the bank manager's mouth with the string attached? I mean, if that's not f**kin' Joker, then I don't know what is.

Most of the time, it seems as if the majority of the people with a dismissive attitude towards TDK's Joker can't be bothered to notice such details, simply because they're too busy looking for something to b***h about.